Echo Workstation USB Removal and Invalid Password Bugs Ordeal

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by Marpost, Jul 20, 2009.

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  1. Marpost

    Marpost Registered Member

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    I first bought True Image Home 2009 several months ago. It worked great and I was very happy with it. But when I found out that I couldn't restore my images on different hardware if necessary, I realized I needed Universal Restore. But Acronis doesn't offer Universal Restore for Home 2009, though I wish they did as that would have solved my problem without all of the subsequent tribulations. In any case, that meant I had to move to True Image Echo Workstation.

    So I bought Echo Workstation with Universal Restore. I got Build 8206. It worked perfectly in every way, except for 2 very annoying bugs with the Backup Archive Explorer.

    1) Every time I double click on a .tib file on my external drive to explore an archive with a password, even though the password is correct and the archive opens fine, it puts an Invalid Password error in both the log of Echo Workstation and my computer's Event Log.

    The exact error is:
    Error
    Module: 53
    Error (Code): 21 (0x350015)
    Message: Invalid Password

    I posted about this here months ago.

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=241096

    The ramdisk.dat error I mentioned there is not happening anymore. So no concern there. Just the Invalid Password error continues to be a problem.

    2) After I close the archive and try to use XP's safe removal tool to remove my USB external drive on which I have my .tib files, I get the message:

    "The device 'Generic volume' cannot be stopped right now. Try stopping the device again later."

    In every other situation, after doing this once or twice, the drive is allowed to be safely removed. But after exploring a .tib file with Echo Workstation's Backup Archive Explorer, no matter how many times I try, I keep getting the message. The reason is that the Backup Archive Explorer is not releasing the handle on the .tib file on the external drive. So I have to use Process Explorer every time to manually close the handle before I can safely remove the USB drive on which I keep my .tib files. In Process Explorer, under Explorer.exe, I can clearly see the handles of all .tib files remaining open until I close them.

    I posted months ago about this issue in https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=242607

    So I then went through tons and tons of emails and phone calls and online chats with Acronis Tech Support about these two bugs. I sent them many many reports upon their request and they escalated the issue. I had several cases opened revolving around this but the main one is case #00177910. Finally, they were able to reproduce both of these errors themselves, confirming that they are real issues with the Backup Explorer in Echo Workstation.

    However, after weeks of this back and forth, they said that rather than fix these bugs in Echo, I should just wait for Acronis Backup and Recovery 10 to come out and that they had confirmed that ABR 10 did not have these bugs. So I waited weeks for it to come out. When it finally came out, I tried it. I had believed it would be just a small shift from Echo Workstation, pretty similar but with these bugs fixed. Instead, I found it to be a much more complex program, really beyond what I need as a single individual just imaging one computer system. This was major overkill for me to change to ABR 10 just to fix these two tiny, but annoying, bugs in Backup Explorer.

    I should add that I tried both Advanced and Standalone ABR 10. Standalone is simpler than Advanced, but still more than I need.

    So I decided I am going to stick with True Image Echo Workstation. It meets my needs and works great other than these two very annoying bugs. Still, I badly want these bugs fixed as they are a real pain every time I explore an archive.

    My next step was that I tried several other builds of Echo Workstation, hoping that one of them, by some chance, might not have these bugs. I tried builds 8345 and 8353 first. 8345 had an even bigger bug where, when I clicked on a .tib file using Backup Archive Explorer, and entered the correct password to the archive, explorer.exe seemed to just crash or something. The whole screen would go blank, then reset. Comically, I would still get the Invalid Password entry in the log. But this time I couldn't even actually explore the archive. 8353 seems to work just the same as 8206, with the same Backup Explorer bugs I had before.

    I then tried the versions before 8206. I tried Builds 8072 and 8163. These had the worst bugs of all! Every time I installed them, I still got the Invalid Password bug and the USB removal issue when using Backup Explorer. But I also got some other major error code when I would first open the actual application.

    So at this point I'm stuck with Build 8206 which is the only one that really works for me. But I still, after all these months, have these two bugs. Acronis has reproduced these bugs so they know they are real issues in the Backup Explorer. There is no reason for them not to fix them. They apear to be only a problem with the Archive Backup Explorer. So it would seem they could simply fix those problems and either send a patch for a new Backup Explorer or a new Build 8206 with the new Backup Explorer in it. It is not reasonable to force me to move up to ABR 10 which is way beyond my needs just to fix these two little bugs (though they continue trying to do this, explaining how it's not really all that complicated once I get used to it, even though it obviously is much more complex involving a separate console and agent, vaults and so on. It's really meant more for a corporate user with several people using it.) And it is not reasonable to refuse to fix these confirmed bugs.

    Also, as I explained the most recent Builds of Echo Workstation either have additional bugs, having gotten even worse since Build 8206, or don't address the problem. Therefore, Acronis should simply fix the small bugs in 8206's Backup Explorer and let me have that. I've even offered to pay a little money if they would patch this up for me, that's how frustrated I am with it. If they would only fix the Backup Explorer in Build 8206 for me I would be forever grateful. Waiting on this and going back and forth with tech support over and over has really taken up a tremendous amount of time for me the last few months. I would so much appreciate just having a working Build 8206 with a Backup Explorer that releases the .tib file handles properly so I can use XP's safe remove to remove my USB external drive without using Process Explorer and doesn't leave that Invalid Password error constantly in my computer Event and Echo Workstation logs.

    So I am getting in touch with Acronis one last time to ask them to fix this problem for me asap, as I have already waited months on this issue. I will keep you updated as to their response and how they handle this issue.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2009
  2. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello Marpost,

    Thank you for using Acronis Software!

    I've contacted the appropriate person and asked him to provide you with the answer as soon as possible.

    Thank you,
    Michael Levchenko
     
  3. Marpost

    Marpost Registered Member

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    Ok I will be waiting for a response (yet again). I will keep everyone posted on how long it takes to get a response and whether it's a real response picking up where I left off with tech support or attempting yet again to start from scratch with some scripted answer.

    As explained, I have already sent in all the files to the point where the bugs were reproduced. So the QA people know about them. I just need them to fix them at this point. I included the case # and everything.
     
  4. jrnuke

    jrnuke Registered Member

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    Even if QA reproduced the problem, I don't think they will fix those minor bugs in Echo, most probably all developers are fixin ABR10 now.
     
  5. Marpost

    Marpost Registered Member

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    Well you may be right, but I can tell you that if they don't fix these bugs after all I've been through with them helping them find the bugs, waiting for ABR only to find it not good for me and so on, then Acronis support is as bad as some of the people on this forum are saying and I will make sure people know that. I have NEVER had a more crazy and painful tech support experience in my life. And there is absolutely no excuse for them not to fix these bugs. How they handle this issue will determine if I remain a big fan of Acronis or warn people against them from now on.
     
  6. jrnuke

    jrnuke Registered Member

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    Fixing bugs is a developer's work, not the support - you really shouldn't blame support people if they won't fix it. If I were you, I would ask for a free upgrade license for ABR10 for all this work. I tried ABR beta and it seems pretty good product.
     
  7. Marpost

    Marpost Registered Member

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    Maybe you didn't understand my ordeal. This went from support up to the developers months ago! Instead of fix it they DID just tell me to wait for ABR. So I waited a long time for it, only to find it is way overkill for me. This is totally unreasonable to make me wait weeks and weeks and upgrade to a very different product just to fix 2 bugs in an earlier product I want to stay with. And if you look at my first threads, I alerted them to these bugs originally somewhere around March! There is no excuse for them to refuse to fix reproduceable bugs like this. They even put out a new build and didn't fix it in that! This is definitely the worst tech support experience of my entire life. And if I don't hear from them in the next day or two that they will fix these bugs - which I've even offered to pay for - I will definitely warn people off of Acronis from now on. They really are turning a strong supporter into the opposite. And from reading some of the other threads on this forum, I'm far from alone.
     
  8. jrnuke

    jrnuke Registered Member

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    Indeed, this issue went off the support responsibility months ago. I can imagine how it was:
    QA (who are busy with ABR testing) reproduced the bugs after month, developers (who are busy with ABR development) said after another month, like "wtf, it's already fixed in ABR". So support just had to advise you to upgrade.

    They put so much effort in this new product, I think they will reply for all Echo issues: "Just upgrade to ABR". It's not a good practice at all, I believe Acronis should work on the current product instead of releasing new one. Still, it's not a support issue, it's a flaw in general management.

    And I'm sorry for repeating myself, but those bugs are not critical issues that prevents you from backing up and restoring, it's just a question of convenience.
     
  9. Marpost

    Marpost Registered Member

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    I agree with all you say. It's not tech support itself that I blame. It's the development staff. And it really ticks me off because most likely this is a very minor thing for them to fix in the Backup Explorer driver files. Just to tell it to release the handle when I close the .tib file and not put an error in the log for correct passwords? I bet someone could fix that in 30 mins coding. And I even offered to pay them some to do it.

    Hell, if they could even give me the code I'd go take it to someone else they recommend to fix it. Whatever they wanted! Because it drives me nuts having to manually release the handle of EVERY .tib file I open in Archive Explorer. This is a real nuisance and really should be fixed on principle. It's just awful basic operation for a driver like that.

    Well I'll wait to hear their final verdict on whether they will fix this or not. I'll let you know what they say. But I can tell you that my view of Acronis weighs on this decision precisely because, as you say, this really speaks to the entire way the company runs.
     
  10. Marpost

    Marpost Registered Member

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    So I heard back on these issues again and it appears that - barring any last change - the verdict is that Acronis refuses to fix these bugs in Echo Workstation now or in the future. This is extremely disappointing and really unprofessional to me for several reasons.

    1) As you can see in these threads:

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=241096

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=242607

    I first began complaining about these issues months ago! In that time they have put out TWO new builds of Echo Workstation (8345 and 8353) and didn't fix these bugs in either, despite my complaints.

    2) I was told they will be putting out one last new build of Echo Workstation in a month or two....and won't fix these bugs in that one either! Why? Because the list of bugs to be fixed is already solidified and can't be changed.

    So that means bugs that were explained to Acronis months ago, that were reproduced by their QA team months ago, will have been ignored in THREE separate new builds of the product and then will never be fixed.

    3) These bugs are only in the Backup Archive Explorer, which should make them easier to fix than something deep within the program. Yet they won't take the short time to do it even after all this time.

    4) The most important of the two bugs - the Archive Explorer's failure to release the handle of .tib files after exploring them - is so basic to the function of such a driver that it is unbelievable to me to leave it that way. The ONLY things the driver is meant to do is open .tib files, explore them, and close them properly. And it fails to do one of those three basic functions. It's such a fundamental thing that to refuse to fix it seems absurd.

    5) I've gone to every length possible for months to get this fixed. I've even offered to pay myself out of pocket for them to fix these bugs. Yet they refuse every possible solution that could end this annoyance for me and other Echo user for years to come.

    As explained above, I don't blame the tech support for this - though it has at times been convoluted and frustrating. But I really blame Acronis' QA team, development team, and overall way of handling this issue. I find it very unprofessional and will be a lot less likely to recommend Acronis to anyone in the future as a result sadly. Many people on this forum have complained about Acronis' level of customer support - the scripted answers, the constant requests for reports over and over - and I have to sadly be another one to warn about this issue. I sincerely hope Acronis' management listens to these complaints and I guarantee they will hurt the company in terms of word of mouth.

    What this means is that I will now have to manually release every .tib file I open to explore for years and years to come. This may not seem like such a big deal, but it's a hassle that really adds up when you have to do it every single time. It also means that any computer I use Echo on in the future will always have to have Process Explorer on it as a matter of course, so that I can never rely just on Echo itself without this supplement.

    So I thought I'd give this update to everyone on the forum. If I hear back that Acronis has changed their mind and decided to do the right thing and fix these bugs one way or another - especially the USB removal issue - I will post again and let you know. Otherwise, you can assume that this is the final decision on their end.
     
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