Developers should not choose anything. Their job is to put someone else's creation into being. They just write code. This is why any dev-led project is bound to be a geeky abomination. And why Linux is failing. Users are the only ones who matter - developers are just there to make it happen. Mrk
Not quite as negative as I make it seem. It's just that Linux in general lacks the polish and professionalism that Windows and MAC OS X has. It's fantastic for web browsing especially using Chromium in firejail sandbox. Security concerns become practically non-existent. It's also great for older hardware using an xfce or lxle-based distro, for example.
Distro developers should, they are the ones putting a distro together and maintaining it. Completely disagree. Firstly because most distro projects are lead by developers. They might chose to listen to the community for some aspects of the project, and that is completely fine. Secondly because the average user doesn't understand the technicality of things, they should never care if they're using systemd or not. Sure, their voice MUST be listened to, but not every single time. Both know whats best: the users for their usability, and developers in regards to what will or will not work, or how less of a work they'll have if they chose one or another project.
I completely disagree. Their lives are not going to be easier by choosing one init system over another. And in case of debian it was not the developers that decided but the technical committee. https://lwn.net/Articles/585363/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1xe7k2/debian_committee_members_vote_for_systemd_as_init/ Bottom line Debian's init system changed because 4 out of 8 persons decided so... Panagiotis
Yup, that's what happened on Debian, although I remember seeing a very long e-Mail list with most devs supporting it. I believe most distro developers actually wanted the change. One example is the Arch devs.
The simplicity of Chrome OS with the ability to run Linux and Android applications, offline usage and 10 years of support like Microsoft (5 years mainstream, 5 years extended support). That would be the perfect Linux desktop for me.
Fair enough. I think it's a double edged sword - one, it seems like many devs and some Linux users hate when Windows users consider migrating to Linux. But at the same time those who stick to Windows are frowned upon. Damned if you do damned if you don't. What's the alternative then? If regular users want a good desktop experience and want to migrate to Linux or try it out, shouldn't the Linux community and the devs be very excited and make the transition seamless? Or maybe I'm living a dream. But when newbies complain they often hear words similar to the ones you wrote; basically It's the developers lives that are going to be easier, they're coding for their own sake, and yes, pardon the language screw the user if they don't like what they see. If you're not happy - make your own code.
The devs wanted the change...And you don't see a problem with that? I'm a regular average user not afraid of looking for remedies when system messes up but systemd broke my system. I know what you're going to answer : Linux is being developed for the devs' sake not for the users sake. Then why make and release a public distro at all? If Linux really was intended for devs only, there should be no Linux newbie section or ask-away-subforums. I'm still surprised there's a newbie section at Arch forums since the consensus seems to be : If you don't know your system, stay away from Arch (or any other advanced distro). See, this is where I see the biggest problem is : Linux base (LB) feels they're decimated by MS, Apple et al and at a first glance it looks like LB want to do everything they can to lure Windows users to them by selling (true or not) propaganda : "Linux is easy!" "We have Steam", "We have 500+ distros to choose from!", "Linux doesn't get viruses", "Gimp is as good as Photoshop!" etc. But scratch little on the surface especially when there's an issue and the true colors surface : "No, actually we don't really want you guys here. Linux is for devs and if you don't like it, blame them or start learning how to code." Sorry to say, I resent that general attitude.
I think it greatly depends on 1. your expectations, 2. how you're using Linux and 3. which distro and DE you're using. I for my part am a happy user of Fedora KDE. I always read Mrk's reviews, and he's certainly right in what he critcizes. But I don't need some of the stuff he's always testing (like samba or bluetooth), so not-functioning features are quite often not really relevant for me.
This thread shows similar statements. Ok it is not easy to find several years old Linux forum threads. It was a common comment directed towards "newbies".
You ARE living a dream because you're still considering the transtion "not seamless" when in fact you were using Arch Linux at the time of the transtion, a bleeding edge distro. on Debian/Ubuntu/openSUSE the transition went seamless for me and pretty much everybody (of course there are people who encounter problems, but that happens in ANY platform). Imagine I'm making a house so people can live on it. I'm currently using light switch type A. However, for me to continue implementing this switch I need to make too much effort, bring more wires than needed, make modifications in the wall, etc. So, a new type of light switch came, it's easier to implement, to manage, it makes my life (the builder) easier, WAY easier. Most builders have looked up this new switch and we agreed it's best to implement it. That's what happened, it's easier for us, and the users' lives are not gonna change except they'll need to learn how to press this new switch, that's ALL they'll have to do. And I still stand with my position of "you can implement any kind of switch you want once you're the one doing all the work". Or if you're paying me to do the work (because remember, most houses in this example are built by VOLUNTEERS). As cited on the example above, no. It probably didn't. What I see you complaining is that the TRANSITION broke your system, and that was expected for some people using a bleeding-edge distro like Arch of Fedora. Please don't make assumptions here and don't put words in my mouth. What I was going to say to you at the time is: Either stay on non-bleeding edge distros like Debian/Ubuntu/openSUSE/Mageia/etc, or expect to break your system in the transition. You do know this isn't the point of this conversation and you're being over dramatic. Linux is for everybody. There are distros that won't break on huge transitions, and there are distros that don't use systemd. Complaining that systemd was implemented does no good at all. It won't be removed any time soon. And that is true. If you're not experienced enough, you shouldn't try using Arch and asking "newbly" questions at the forums (newbly for Linux in general, not Arch). It's like being at 3rd grade but trying to solve 6th-grade equations. You shouldn't. One step at a time, one distro at a time. Again, you're being way overdramatic. Linux can be easy, as long as the user is opened to change. Yes, we do have Steam, and I think the game count is closer to 2000. We have more than 500 distros, and that is a problem. We have more of everything, effort is duplicated, and that is a problem. I've talked about this many times GIMP *is* as good (or almost as good) as Photoshop. In fact, many Photoshop features were presented in GIMP first, and this is trend between opensource and proprietary systems: Linux/BSD implements features way before Apple/Microsoft, for the vast majority of times. Also, Blender, a FOSS program, does almost everything as the proprietary 3D software used in Pixar, and that is one of Pixar's "bosses" words. I'm sorry to read such emotions from a former Arch user. You should know better than this.
@amarildojr, in restrospect I see my post contained some drama. I apologize if I got little too excited and it saturated my posts. If I put words in your mouth you didn't intend to say I apologize for that too. Let's say I don't agree with everything you say but I'm glad we can discuss these things. I will probably take a deep breath soon and give it another go.
No problem man I've do so in the past I well, I know how it is to be frustrated: https://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/why-im-leaving-linux-for-now-solved.380178/
Thanks for the thread link. A good read. Didn't know you experienced such frustrations with Linux. And your 3D work is ... stunning. And I am glad you survived.
Thank you for your kind words I've improved a little. Here's a new render (still noisy, just a test render) from last week: ~ Off Topic Image Link Removed As Per Policy ~ A bit off-topic, though.
Some of the problems happening to Mrk and no doubt others are far more serious, such as outright program or system crashes, either during installation or testing after installation. Those type problems are unacceptable for most. I tend not to get anything that serious, but I think that's because I use lightweight distros for lightweight (simple) needs.
Great skills. Almost like a photo. It's a good piece of software. My nephew loves Krita (on Win). So yeah, there are great software for Linux.
