Privacy is becoming obsolete, but not everyone thinks you should fear its demise

Discussion in 'privacy general' started by ronjor, Nov 4, 2018.

  1. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

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    Jon Martindale@jonwhoopty Posted on 11.4.18
     
  2. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    The wealthy have always had their privacy, and they will undoubtedly keep it. Because they're so well insulated. Unless they're careless, and get their phones pwned ;)

    It's the rest of us that I worry about. And apologists for the panopticon disgust me. If for no other reason, because they're often hypocrites, who are well-off enough to have considerable privacy. Such as, for example, Mark Zuckerberg.
     
  3. Reality

    Reality Registered Member

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    The more you can bought off the more likely you get to keep your privacy and Zuckerbergs unsurprising slap in the face to privacy should simply remind us what his agenda is. NEVER ever ever trust the likes of FB, Google etc. Privacy can and will become totally invaded but it will never become obsolete because it's an inherent requirement to being a human being.
     
  4. Circuit

    Circuit Registered Member

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    Land o fruits and nuts, and more crime.
    :thumb:
     
  5. BriggsAndStratton

    BriggsAndStratton Registered Member

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    There are companies out there for now that will gather your individual data, all of your activities on social media, and maybe even you Amazon purchases.

    For example, if you have a picture of yourself on fb, or say, you bought plus sized cloths on Amazon, they might sell this information to your insurance company, and they might charge you a higher rate. Don't be shocked, it's already happening.

    There are many companies in the U.S. that mine this data, and will resell it. Congress is looking at these people closely, to figure out what laws to pass to protect people or not.
     
  6. Stefan Froberg

    Stefan Froberg Registered Member

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    Well, if Mr. Zuckerberg thinks that privacy is no longer relevant then let's have his:

    - Full medical history
    - Full list of friends and relatives
    - Full details of every bank account he has, including passwords.
    - Full list of logins/passwords for all online services he uses.
    - Full list of criminal record
     
  7. Umbra

    Umbra Registered Member

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    Wrong examples, those are not the kind of datas we are talking about.
    those you mentioned can't be harvested legally, users have to expose them intentionally, so it is the user fault.

    we are talking about datas on social medias, mined via cookies or else, etc..

    Anyway, nobody forces anyone to register on any of Facebook or Google's services or visit their sites, if you do, you have to accept their conditions. So still the user responsibility.

    When i say i have nothing to hide (to authorities) isn't the same as exposing my life and secrets to everyone.
     
  8. Yuki2718

    Yuki2718 Registered Member

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    I haven't read the article so will read it, yet would like to make short comment.
    Yes - privacy is not the 0 or 1 staff. Actually nobody could define essence of the privacy, but anyway, there're many forms & levels of privacy so bringing extreme argument has a risk of missing point.

    Yet I don't agree that if an user decided to give an access to his/her data, then everything is his/her responsibility - especially when they gave the access because they'd (to some extent) trusted the service provider. Usually there's no mention in privacy policy what if the data was compromised either by external attacker or internal bad employee.
    At least Google know this and this is why they're trying to reduce the risk (thus their responsibility not to breach the trust) - as I mentioned in a thread, they're pioneer in some of privacy technologies and it's good example that protecting privacy can often be win-win.

    Whether talking about such credentials or just a web tracking, what is important is to make it clear WHAT you care in terms of privacy. It doesn't need to be sth everyone admits, but YOU have to know it. OTOH privacy is at the same time social matter. Privacy has a social value, but it's not absolute nor "sacred and inviolable" one. Also matter of privacy is not limited to monitoring and collection. Transparency and active involvement of holder is another important ones which somehow often be forgotten.
     
  9. reasonablePrivacy

    reasonablePrivacy Registered Member

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    But somebody who does not have account on Facebook and does not visit its front page may still be tracked by Facebook. Both by 3rd party scripts on other websites or data from data brokers Facebook buy from.
    Also friend or relatives can upload photos of you or some data such as phone number. Guess what - Facebook knows that and uses that data to track people.
     
  10. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

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    I believe FN POS zuckerberg owes the US ten of billions of dollars for selling out democracy.
     
  11. Umbra

    Umbra Registered Member

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    Facebook business model is dependent of ads, so they do all they can to get valuable datas to deliver targeted ads. I don't say it is honorable, but Business is business. I would do the same if I was Facebook CEO. A billions dollars wallet is worth suffering blame from some unhappy people.

    Blame your friends.
    if they expose themselves, their problems.
    if they expose you without your consent, blame them, not Facebook.

    Honestly, I don't care much of FB, I use it to get in touch with real friends across the world. And Facebook is very good at it.
     
  12. Stefan Froberg

    Stefan Froberg Registered Member

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    Oh sorry, I tought Zucks was speaking generally.

    Well, if only stuff that can legally be obtained (with the current a***** USA legistation) then it only rules out criminal records, passwords and bank stuff (even the password stuff is really not needed when some **** services ask permission to rummage your Linkedin, Gmail, or FB account just that you can download and read one lousy scientific paper).

    Everything else, including medical stuff is free (well maybe not "free" but goes for the highest bidder) for 3rd party data brokers to slurp, process and sell as they best see to fit.

    It only takes one **** developer to make one app and all your life and your friends life is bare to who knows what parties.
    Like in Cambridge fiasco.
     
  13. Umbra

    Umbra Registered Member

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    @Stefan Froberg I don't live in US but in Europe, medical records are still private (as far as I know)
     
  14. Stefan Froberg

    Stefan Froberg Registered Member

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  15. Umbra

    Umbra Registered Member

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    Anyway we are all datafied in a way or another, the fight was lost long ago before we were being aware it even started... Now those who are concerned or worry about it can only become "rebels" and "hide" the best they can, futile in my opinion.
     
  16. Yuki2718

    Yuki2718 Registered Member

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    Fight to protect privacy is ongoing. If you learn the history of privacy, you'll find how serious battle have been taken place, not limited to court and legislature, and what if they didn't fight - whether you live in US, Europe, or Asia (except for China), current situation could be MUCH worse. This modest privacy we enjoy now is results of them even if you're not aware.

    The situation for datafying is not so desperate either, partly thx to technological advancement such as ε-δ differential privacy, but if we didn't even try to value privacy who bother to develop and use such tech - thankfully, there're always ppl who do. As I implied in previous post, data collection itself is not necessarily privacy invasion, but it's another matter how to communicate such tech to layman. Most ppl don't even understand what the privacy threat is beyond the vague feeling.

    BTW privacy is not necessarily about hiding sth, that's just one aspect but focusing too much on that has a risk of missing whole picture.
     
  17. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    • Medical data is shared among providers and insurers. Patients must sign off, but getting care more-or-less requires that. Law enforcement can gain access under warrant, and there are some reporting requirements about opioids etc. But otherwise, it's private.
    • Facebook and Google both purchase banking and credit/debit card data from banks, to help target ads. They obviously don't get access credentials, but they do get transactional data.
    • Criminal records are publicly available.
     
  18. Umbra

    Umbra Registered Member

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    @mirimir as always depends where you live and your country regulations. USA is far to be a model of privacy respect...I won't take it as a standard.
     
  19. reasonablePrivacy

    reasonablePrivacy Registered Member

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    Business is business, but also companies usually have higher expectation to follow law that citizens, because they specialize in what they do. Look at taxes - taxes are usually much easily regulated for regular citizens/households that companies, because it is reasonable that company can comply with more nuanced regulations.

    Facebook should only gather data who registered inside their services and no one else. They should employ algorithms that recognize their users and eliminate all (at least personal) data from non-users.

    I blame not only friends, but also Facebook because Facebook provides tools that allows for mass data gathering from devices. Also these tools does not have fine grained settings where people can choose whose data they want to share. You can't share only half of address book with Facebook (i.e. friends that use Facebook). So they:
    1. Don't allow their users to limit other people's data exposure
    2. They don't do that themselves
     
  20. Umbra

    Umbra Registered Member

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    @Yuki2718 what I meant is that legislators are 10 steps behind, they are focusing on tech giants because they are the top of the iceberg. The time a policy is released, dozen of tools are already released used by thousands of sites, and those legislators, lacking technical skills, won't even be aware.
    Just look at cookies... Existing since a decade, the law in Europe just came this year... Laughable.

    Sure few people can develop tools to reduce the privacy invasion, but it won't be enough and most of all, way too late.
    Most of our datas are already collected, now we can just minimize exposition aka damage control.
     
  21. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

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    There's no consequences that hurt these big companies. So nothing will change for the better. Just the same: we care, we're taking steps to, we take your privacy seriously, we will earn your trust etc. etc. Then more data mining with sharper shovels.
     
  22. Umbra

    Umbra Registered Member

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    Exactly, you want restore your privacy? Blast EMPs on every data centers in the world.
     
  23. Stefan Froberg

    Stefan Froberg Registered Member

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    They are? For everyone ?
    Could someone post Zucks here? ;):D
     
  24. Tarnak

    Tarnak Registered Member

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    No way Jose! ;)

    Google_no way_01.JPG
     
  25. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    Hey, there are websites for that ;) Or more seriously, you go to detective agencies.

    Criminal records are publicly available, but finding them can be nontrivial. You typically need to know what court sentenced them. And you may need to request records from the court, perhaps in person. Judges can seal records, in ongoing cases, or whatever. Or if there's been clemency. Or maybe a bribe ;)
     
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