LooknStop Firewall = PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK

Discussion in 'LnS English Forum' started by polocanada, Aug 23, 2007.

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  1. polocanada

    polocanada Registered Member

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    This is not a simple complaining like bla... bla .. bla.. .we heard this already. This problem with LNS happend now as it happened few years back. Seriously. :mad:

    I installed this firewall several years back (3 years back?). That time, it was a total disaster. My system backup and rescue disc saved me.

    Last week I installed this firewall again on a totally, totally different system. Result - total disaster.

    The disaster: Firewall doesn't uninstall properly. When rebooting the PC, the system hangs. You switch off and ... disaster starts... internet not working.

    In both cases, (now and years back), I thought this is a broken WinSock. So I tried to reinstall networking. Didn't help. .. So I tried to repair Winsock with WinsockFix (a usually a safe and successful procedure).

    The result:
    Machine didn't boot any more. I go blue scree and immmediate restart and reboot. In loops. Safe mode didn't work, last know safe configuration didn't work.... I had to rebuild whole system, because I didn't have backups this time.

    I am seasoned pc guy and I know how to treat the system. In both cases Look'n'Stop cause my system to go kaputt.

    Now, this is not to blame LNS firewall. Perhaps it's jut me trying to fix WinSock while there was another problem. The point is the firewall. I only hope to give you guys an early warning, so that if "it" happens, you have been warned and you won't smash your head agains your desk. Personally, I will never touch this one. And if I would, I woun't try to uninstall it.

    Happy firewalling.
    ------------
    MY favourites: Outpost (#1), Comodo (#2, well let's see), ZonaAlarm Pro (#3). NEW INCUMBENT: Eset Smart Security ESS ....... Looks like a new #1 or #2....
     
  2. Phant0m

    Phant0m Registered Member

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    Basically you saying the product un-install procedure is faulty?
     
  3. Phant0m

    Phant0m Registered Member

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    Couple of things aren't making any sense to me, you say your machine didn't boot-up anymore, that she goes into rebooting loop, you said "disaster starts... internet not working", it's irrelevant to mention that the Internet isn't working unless Windows did boot up fully... Or did you mean the rebooting loop only occurred after running winsock repair utility?
     
  4. Phant0m

    Phant0m Registered Member

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    In addition; what was meant when said the Safe mode wont work? You mean Safe Mode wouldn't load up? or changes made through Safe Mode failed to undo damages?
     
  5. Climenole

    Climenole Look 'n' Stop Expert

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    Hi polocanada :)

    With problems like this I understand you're a bit furious. This happens often to very skilled persons, not only newbies, with many different software and in this case with LnS.

    I remark one interesting thing in your post. This:

    It seems you're trying different firewall and this is a good idea.
    But there is an important thing to take care of: if you install a new firewall it's important to removed completly the previous one or else you'll have strange problems...

    May be this was the case with you're LnS install / uninstall...
    Is it possible? I guess you'll agree with me that the uninstaller of LnS is not perfect and require some manual clean up in case of driver problems...

    May I suggest you to used an installer / uninstaller monitor such as Total Uninstall when you change from one firewall to an other. TUN help me many times and avoid, most of the time, the kind of problem you're talking about.

    I hope my post will be helpfull for you.

    Best regards

    :)
     
  6. Frederic

    Frederic LnS Developer

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    Hi polocanada,

    I'm sorry you have encountered this kind of issue 2 times. Fortunately, this is not general, cases where a complete reinstallation is required are very very rare, and for the only cases I know, there was a conflict with another firewall, or a bad uninstall tool was used.

    On my side, what I would like to know:

    - what was the investigation status of the first case ? is there any post/email you can refer to ?

    - what was the installation error this time ?

    - Installation errors happen most of the time because another firewall was not totally uninstalled before. Did you verify that ? Also some other NDIS/TDI application/utility (such as VPN, network limiters...) could cause conflicts.

    - do you know what WinsokFix does exactly ? Look 'n' Stop installs driver at TDI level (and NDIS but this is lower), not directly winsock. So I would be very surprised the Blue Screen at startup will be caused by the TDI Look 'n' Stop driver. If this driver causes (lnsfw1.sys) some issue, simply removing/renaming the file will fix the issue, as there are nothing registered for it in windows configuration (this is not the case for lnsfw.sys the NDIS driver, but this one is absolutely not interacting with Winsock).

    Thanks.

    I won't recommend Total Uninstall, because this utility is not able to properly handle changes related to the network configuration. I've already tried to use it on a Look 'n' Stop install, it didn't work, and the system required to be completely reinstalled, to have internet back.

    Regards,

    Frederic
     
  7. Climenole

    Climenole Look 'n' Stop Expert

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    Hi Fredéric :)

    Interesting to know ! Thanks :)

    So I've to look for an alternative ...

    :)
     
  8. Frederic

    Frederic LnS Developer

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  9. Climenole

    Climenole Look 'n' Stop Expert

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    Hi Fredéric :)

    Thank you for the info and the link.

    :)
     
  10. polocanada

    polocanada Registered Member

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    I won't reply to comments about newbe.... That's like insult. I have been using firewalls since the first consumer firewall ever appeared - At Guard. In fact I was one of their first customers. And ever since I tried many of them. LNS has not been even on a drawing desk at that time.

    I think LNS is a good piece of software but there something about uninistallation that sucks. At least it's not reliable uninstallation procedure. This is case with some products that place entries in winsock or load low level drivers.

    I haven't have such problems with any other firewall that is know to resurrect the system, like ZoneAlarm or Norton.

    I am frustrated because LNS Firewall was the only thing I installed recently. Except to possibly some Windows Hot Fix updates which happen all the time as winows releases them. Because the problem with uninstallation happened 2 with years in between I do believe that LNS has some trouble getting uninstalled.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers.
    :-*
     
  11. Climenole

    Climenole Look 'n' Stop Expert

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    Hi

    This is not an insult. Read again please.

    Problem like the one you have happen from time to time to anybody using a computer...

    Most of the LnS users problems find a fast solution in this forum.
    Just check the other threads: nobodies are leaving without a solution.

    Don't be so upset.

    Have a nice day.
    :)
     
  12. Frederic

    Frederic LnS Developer

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    So you are saying the system was really clean, and no other firewall was installed before you tried to install/uninstall Look 'n' Stop.
    Is there anyway any installed common application/driver (especially related to the network) you were using on both computers ? I'm thinking of VPN for instance (because VPN drivers are often installed in same location as Look 'n' Stop drivers).

    System hang at reboot after uninstall, is something very new to me, and I don't remember someone having reported this issue before.

    I really would like to know if you reported the issue the first time, and what was the result of our investigation (sorry if this is was you are considering as a newbe question...).

    What I know is we had several uninstall issue when removing the NDIS driver, and each time it was because another firewall was not properly installed. Also using uninstall tools creates some issues, but never a system hang.

    If the problem was with the removal of the NDIS driver, there is absolutely no link with Winsock, so it is strange winsockfix created a blue screen, except if Winsockfix performs some other actions at a lower level.
    By chance do you have a minidump corresponding to the blue screen, it would have been interesting to know which driver was running, as normally all Look 'n' Stop drivers are removed after the uninstall.

    Regards,

    Frederic
     
  13. polocanada

    polocanada Registered Member

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    Hi, the system was clean, this was my work PC so there is really nothing on it, since I am not allowed to freak out at work. But I have admin rights both on PC and network if I need.

    Installation went well, smooth. The reason I uninstalled LNS is that there was some heavy resource use. I am not quite sure, I didn't have time to figure it out. But this is not really a problem, it just needs more time to look at the system.

    The only thing I had isntalled on the work PC was trend micro, that was uninstalled a while back, I have NOD32 2.7 now and I had CA eTrust firewall installed. That was a clone of Zone Alarm and I used it for some time because it was old version and light on resources, it didn't slow down computer like newer ZoneAlarm does. CA Etrust firewall was uninstalled. And given the simplicity of the old version of Zone Alarm firewall, I don't think there was any residuals. I think the old version doesn't even have True Vector driver.

    Other than that I have Winpatrol at work. Nothing else. No VPN. There are no remote locations.

    One thing I didn't mention is that after I uninstalled LSN, it asked me to reboot. so I did. At the moment when it was rebooting the system froze The freeze was either on the way down or up, I don't know because I was away for a few seconds...) . There was just empty wallpaper desktop screen, nothing worked. ctrl+alt+del didn't work. I waited for 10 minutes, no change, no activity on harddrive etc... So I turned off. And here it started...

    I wish there is minidump. At that time I didn't have Winternals CD with me and I had to finish a proposal in 24 hours and the PC was a mess. So that freaked me out. I went and bought a second haddrive to do a clean install. The old drive is now slave, so I can check for dump. I am not quite sure whethe there "creating dump is check or not". But where do I look for dump file?

    NDIS - driver - yes there was somethings with NDIS not loaded when I tried to load the system again. I think it was when I tried the last know configuration.

    Warm regards.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2007
  14. Frederic

    Frederic LnS Developer

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    Thanks for the additional information.

    This is very weird, there is no reboot dialog box at the end of the uninstall process. There is only an OK dialog box and that's it.
    Reboot is only asked at install time.

    Normally a minimal crashdump is created by default. It is located in c:\windows\minidump.

    I would like to make some tests with the applications you mentioned, what is/was the Windows version of the PCs: XP-SP2 / 2000 ? (Sorry if I missed the information in your previous posts).

    Thanks,

    Frederic
     
  15. polocanada

    polocanada Registered Member

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    The reboot dialog... May be there was none, maybe it just told me some of files could not be removed and will be removed on the next boot. I am not sure about this one. In any case I always reboot after install/uninstall apps like this. It is Win XP SP2. I will check for the minidump file.

    Polo.
     
  16. ellison64

    ellison64 Registered Member

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    Hi...
    i use total uninstall too for most stuff ,but i use rollback rx for any serious installations/uninstallations.Saved me once or twice ;)
    ellison
     
  17. Climenole

    Climenole Look 'n' Stop Expert

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    Hi ellison64 :)

    rollback rx ? Ok. I'll give it a try.

    Thank you for the information.

    :)
     
  18. ellison64

    ellison64 Registered Member

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    If you do decide to buy theres a pre sales online chat here...
    http://supportcenteronline.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4443
    I asked about a discount before i purchased and was given a 25% discount code by the online rep.Usually you have to just trial it and tell them what you think of it,however the rep may just give you it like he did for me.Obvioulsly rtrial befor you commit though.Perosnally ive never had any problems with it and its a keeper 9like looknstop of course ) for me.
    ellison
     
  19. Phant0m

    Phant0m Registered Member

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    Doesn't TU version 3+ provide customlist? You should look into that first, before purchasing something else...

     
  20. Climenole

    Climenole Look 'n' Stop Expert

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    Hi Phant0m :)

    I'm using the old version 2.35...

    Did this custom list include the drivers ? What is your experience with TUN and the installation / uninstallation of security programs like LnS ?

    Thank for your post Phantom :thumb:

    :)
     
  21. Phant0m

    Phant0m Registered Member

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    Hi Climenole,

    I can't help you there, I don't use Total UnInstall, I never used Total UnInstall... I personally never had the need for anything like, I don't run into any problems... :)

    I didn't know what version of TU you use, I just assumed you have purchased it to be keeping up with the recent versions. I remember reading awhile ago that version 3 included custom list capabilities.
     
  22. Phant0m

    Phant0m Registered Member

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    I think polocanada situation was with the system under 'some heavy resource use' and while, attempting to-do an uninstall of Look 'n' Stop, leaving room for likely problems, which ended with the following results, incomplete uninstall...
     
  23. ellison64

    ellison64 Registered Member

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    I use TU 4.23 ,and while its great for uninstalling "normal" programs i personally wouldn't count on it for security applications that can hook in at low levels.Also in the case of a system freeze while installing and app where you have to perform a hard reboot TU would be no good.Rollback rx (and others like it) create a snapshot of your total system and can restore the snapshots before windows has loaded.Its great for testing different avs,different firewalls etc.For instance i have a snapshot with AVG ISS and looknstop that i can return too when grisoft techs get back to me about a problem i had with AVG a while back.While many of these rollback programes do have their minus points ,(for instance rollback rx needs to be installed on a system that has been defragmented because the programe itself then takes care of fragmentation with a built in defragger....normal third party defraggers would not work at present unless you uninstalled rollback defragged and reinstalled.However that said if you defrag before installing ,rollback takes care of any fragmentation after that ,and it works very well.TU and rollback rx are not really comparable .In the original posters case rollback rx probably would have prevented his pc being hosed even if windows wouldnt have started,as it is installed below the windows OS.
    ellison

    Seems like rollback has caused many problems for folks too...
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=183739
    I guess the only real safe alternative is an external hardrive.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2007
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