Looking for search engines (under these conditions)

Discussion in 'privacy general' started by Jim Verard, Sep 26, 2007.

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  1. Jim Verard

    Jim Verard Registered Member

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    Greetings.

    I am looking for some good search engines, however, considering these conditions.

    * They must not rely or support Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, AOL, ASK.com companies. For instance, check http://www.metacrawler.com or http://www.scroogle.org - I am NOT looking for these.

    * They must not record searches (logs deleted) and not use cookies - this feature is important, but optional

    * They must have some good image search feature.

    * They must not require Javascript to be enabled in order to be used. And please, no family filter enabled by default!

    I have these until now:

    http://pesquisa.sapo.pt (good choice for me, since I speak portuguese)
    http://clusty.com (thanks to Paranoid)
    http://www.gigablast.com (few results)

    Could you please recommend others? I think these are good choices, and Sapo.pt is the only one who may send me good portuguese results. But the main problem is: they have a pretty bad image search results.

    Altavista.com and even Google are much better if you're looking for some pictures (by using keywords you get good results). Altavista.com also have video searchs, which is not available on Google.
     
  2. WSFuser

    WSFuser Registered Member

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    Maybe Mojeek.com? It does not have an image search though you can use a separate one like Picsearch.com
     
  3. innerpeace

    innerpeace Registered Member

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  4. SpikeyB

    SpikeyB Registered Member

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  5. Jim Verard

    Jim Verard Registered Member

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    Thanks, but this research done with 100 search engines has so many bad results that I was impacient to keep looking (many of them have almost none results compared to Google, Altavista and others).

    And some of them are not fit on the terms described on this thread (not only because they support/rely on these companies like Google, but requires Javascript to be enabled). Links are also broken and like I said, the results are awful (and can't cover a good piece of the internet).

    I want independent search engines and companies.

    I knew Ixquick, but it has no use for me either (however, it's on the last position of my favorites bookmark). From their FAQ:

    Ixquick is a metasearch engine: when you search Ixquick, you are searching many popular search engines, such as Yahoo/AltaVista, Gigablast, Ask Jeeves/Teoma, Open Directory and many others, at the same time. Combined, these engines cover more of the Internet than any one search engine.
     
  6. lotuseclat79

    lotuseclat79 Registered Member

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    Hi Jim,

    You might try BLACK BOX SEARCH... no IP, no tracking cookies, no logging - EVER!
    here.

    Don't be confused by the appearance of Google, Yahoo, and MSN search windows on their search page portal. They use proxies, so the results returned to you keep your IP virtually non-existent.

    You might try Googlonymous which you can get at the Mycroft Project website.

    I happen to like mamma, a meta-search engine, but it may not be what you want.

    -- Tom
     
  7. Jim Verard

    Jim Verard Registered Member

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    lotus, thanks for your help, but I will not use any search engine who relies or support Google, Yahoo, MS, AOL or Ask.com. It doesn't matter if they don't log anything. They are not an independent company.

    I wonder if there are any good search engines left on the internet, these days. :cautious:
     
  8. Jim Verard

    Jim Verard Registered Member

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    Some useful information:

     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2007
  9. Jim Verard

    Jim Verard Registered Member

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    Another search engine was found (and again, using the portuguese language).:

    www.aonde.com.br

    I was looking this week another list from search engines and got lucky to find this one between many others.

    Every other related links from search engines are broken now, or at least are useless (some of them display no results for simple searchs). It's rather odd to see how the world was conquered by a few companies like Google, Yahoo, Microsoft and AOL.

    Back in the old days, many search engines were available. Now, we can count each one using our fingers. :rolleyes:

    Another one (I just found out this exact minute):

    www.exalead.com

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exalead
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2007
  10. lotuseclat79

    lotuseclat79 Registered Member

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  11. Jim Verard

    Jim Verard Registered Member

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    Correcting my previous post since the Edit button was removed after some time. :p

    Aonde doesn't fit on the terms listed before. It's a search engine which is currently using Yahoo resources (to be more specific, Overture.com company) everytime you click on the results (Overture is redirecting only).

    Actually Sapo.pt is far better when comparing to Clusty.com than I thought. I tried to find out one single word and Sapo delivered about 9.420 results, while Clusty provided 83 results without any modifications on the cluster settings (100 results by default).

    I have modified to 500 cluster results * (the maximum limit), and the number increased to 182 results (clustering about 500 results in all languages with adult filter off). It's a huge difference. However, Sapo.pt don't use cache for any websites found, only a link to similar pages. Clusty use this feature, and might have some exclusive or relevant results.

    * This modification apparently doesn't require cookies to be performed.

    I am quite satisfied with this Portuguese portal. However, it's impossible to rely on any search engines listed on this thread, even PicSearch, when you have to search for images/pictures of any kind. I think I'll have to use Altavista (Yahoo search engine) for that kind of job. The results of any image searches are light-years better than the others.

    Oops, I almost forgot. :)

    Exalead has found 825 results by using the same term, and

    Gigablast = worst than all the others. First, he shows more than 10k results. When you click to see the results, the number turns to be 367. After you start to looking for each page of 10 results, you find out that the correct number was 107 (when the only link available is "Previous 10 posts"). The problem is, 90% of results from Gigablast are completely irrelevant. They are also using a cache feature.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2007
  12. true north

    true north Registered Member

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    Hi there,

    looking for GOLD? That is not so easy this days, but.....
    If you are serious interested in search engines than you should read some background material first in order to understand what a search engine can provide and what not! There are many specialized engines out there but that all depend what you are looking for. You can search by learning by doing or by learning before doing it. Professional searcher seldom use the www.
    Here are some infos, see for yourself. Good luck !!!!

    http://searchenginewatch.com/showPage.html?page=3627468

    http://www.allsearchengines.com/

    http://www.searchenginecolossus.com

    http://www.finderseeker.com/

    http://www.refdesk.com/newsrch.html

    http://www.searchengineguide.com/searchengines.html


    true north
     
  13. true north

    true north Registered Member

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    Hi there,

    for people they are interested in NEWS about new trends in search engines:
    there is a home page that offered every month an up-date of WHAT is new and coming up;
    http://www.altsearchengines.com/category/the-top-100-lists/

    click on NEWS and have fun, the top 100 engines !!!!!!!!!

    true north
     
  14. true north

    true north Registered Member

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  15. lotuseclat79

    lotuseclat79 Registered Member

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    Ask.com Launches AskEraser Giving Searches Ability To Search Anonymously
    Article here.

    Two things:
    1) It is not retroactive, so previous ask.com searches stay on server for 18 mos.
    2) Don't know whether when activated by visiting the ask.com website and turning it off, it will be active for future Firefox search window searches for a user without visiting ask.com with web browser to do the search.

    -- Tom
     
  16. TonyW

    TonyW Registered Member

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    Clusty, in your list of favourites, is also a metasearch search engine:
     
  17. Jim Verard

    Jim Verard Registered Member

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    Thank you lotus, true north and others for all contributions.

    Good point, Tony. I didn't see that coming, although Clusty never looked like a real search engine for me.

    However, Clusty doesn't specify from where they retrieve these results. So, in the end, he might be listed on my terms because there's no sign or traces of the other companies like Google and Yahoo on their searches.

    I don't usually use Clusty because they provide me just a few results. Sapo.pt it's still the best choice, and gives me much more results and some of them on my language, which is portuguese, so it's perfect for me (since Clusty speaks english).

    What I was seeking all the time was a list of search engines who actually are working alone, without interference of any others like Google or Yahoo. But as you can see, since Google arrived, they simply vanished. It's very hard to find one these days, which is sad.

    I also have Google images bookmarked here, when I have to search for images, unfortunately all the others sucks.

    I was also looking for an article who says that in order to provide a search engine, the costs are very high, which might explain why there are only a bunch of search engines in the world. I don't remember where I saw this explanation.
     
  18. TonyW

    TonyW Registered Member

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    According to their FAQ:
     
  19. lotuseclat79

    lotuseclat79 Registered Member

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    Group says Ask's privacy feature is flawed
    Article here.

    -- Tom
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 20, 2007
  20. Shunted

    Shunted Registered Member

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    Some comments to the post of that privacy group:

    I think this is silly. Counter intuitive? I'm sure. But it makes sense. Ask says they want to keep most of the queries for analyzing, to help make the results better, just like the other search engines. They are even without the opt-out far better:

    • Ask removes everything after 18 months,
    • Google removes part of IP and part of cookie data after 18 months, store with query forever
    • Yahoo! does like Google, but after 13 months
    • Microsoft keeps queries forever, but thrashes IP and cookies after 18 months.

    If most users don't care enough to set the cookie, I don't think this is a real problem. They'll have bookmarks and save time while the data will reasonably soon be removed and until then helps to improve results. Meanwhile, the paranoids like me can feel a bit safer from the black helicopters.

    I think Ask views this as a way to find new customers, and putting the time in the cookie is intended to track loyality somewhat, that is, how long has this feature been on? Taking a big step forward in the privacy of web searching, I can't really blame them for this, while obviously, i'd prefer this not being included.

    I certainly don't like the idea of session cookies, as these must be set repeatedly. Set the cookie to not be deleted instead, if you care.

    What would be nice would be a convention on a time to put into the cookie among paranoids as this would circumvent it. Why not say 19840101 00:00, would help if it was common.

    This is probably illegal.
     
  21. Jim Verard

    Jim Verard Registered Member

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    Ask is a search engine from Microsoft, and that is quite enough reason for why it can't be trusted.

    Microsoft is well known for their surveillance practices. When I recall my Hotmail accounts deleted and months (even almost a year) after, they are still not removed, I can't trust to put my hands on anything from them.

    It doesn't matter if they say: "we are deleting everything after 18 months". This is bullshit, a fairy tale to lure ignorant people.

    A trusted company should never log anything, including IPs, in the first place.

    The same goes for Yahoo and specially Google.
     
  22. Shunted

    Shunted Registered Member

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    ?? What? Check your facts dude, Microsoft's search engine is called Live Search.. Ask is owned by IAC/InterActiveCorp, run by Barry Diller. Whatever you think about that it's not Microsoft, right? Or am I missing the big conspiracy here?

    Well, not erasing your mail and recycling your account name is hardly surveillance. If you really think this, you're paranoia threshold is really low. 2 MB of hotmail, easily erased by yourself. This could be related to you having a MSN messenger account, I'm not sure, but I've experienced the same.

    Nahh.. Too much conspiracy, someone could blow the whistle.

    As for privacy invaders, I don't see Microsoft on top positions. And that WGA thing ... tells them you're using Windows with a particular locale ... very incriminating.

    Well sure that would be ideal, but I agree that there is a point in analyzing queries to improve the results. Don't you agree they take a big step by allowing opt-out, and for everyone else, erasing everything after 1 1/2 year? Neither offered by other search engines not querying logging engines.

    Not happy? I say two thumbs up. Hopefully others will follow. Microsoft actually has hinted they might..
     
  23. Jim Verard

    Jim Verard Registered Member

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    Hmmm...

    http://www.searchenginejournal.com/askcom-ceo-steve-berkowitz-leaves-for-microsoft/3310/

    My Hotmail account was deleted for good, and even after that, it was still activated, and the period described on their privacy policy was not respected. Not even the worst companies are doing that. And I assure you, I was not using MSN Messenger. In fact, not considering Windows XP, I don't use anything from Microsoft.

    About privacy concerns, Microsoft share informations to partners (subsidiaries, affiliated companies, trusted businesses or persons) and permits third party advertisers to deploy cookies. They lack adequate detail of retention periods, data flows and targeting techniques.

    There's no conspiracy here. Just reality. I am not blind to believe that after all Google, Yahoo and others have done against our privacy, they are willing to put their tail behind their legs and erase all data about us. How can you be sure about that?

    This is ridiculous, and I am surprised that anyone can be so naive to believe in all those lies.
     
  24. Shunted

    Shunted Registered Member

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    Read your link about Steve Berkowitz, former CEO of Ask. Seems he's done some really good things like buying and incorporating the technology of the Teoma search engine. Previously they were mainly about asking actual questions, and employers actually reading the most common questions.. I think he got the company in the right direction here with this big change, I like the search results. I see nothing strange in he getting a new job at Microsoft. However, I miss the Jeeves mascot a little.

    About hotmail and Microsoft and privacy: Yeah, I don't say that Microsoft are great here. But don't you think they are sort of still left in the "if they don't click my banner, I'll make it bigger & blinking faster & add sound" kind of thinking? Annoying as hell, but on the same time, this is dumb advertising too. On the other hand, Google are intelligent and tries really hard to make a profile of you to be "relevant", and they have so many ways to do this. How often are you really on www.msn.com ? I've probably been there less then 5 minutes totally. And what do they know except from what you do there?

    And hotmail again. They offered 2 MB of space, around this time I probably used Yahoo! with a whopping 6 MB. Then Google aced it with 1000 MB. Don't you think it's clear who wants to scan your mail? But yes, I always manually remove mail before I close an account.

    Same thing with Instant Messaging, MSN has a banner in their client. That's ugly. Google offers to save all your chats forever. That's profiling. Microsoft just has an alias for me so I can have an IM account. Google knows my name from Gmail, and my credit card from Checkout, some of my searches and what pages I visited that have their ads or stats. I'm sure I haven't been paranoid enough here. But I think it's clear who wants to get to know you, or actually does.

    * I am not blind to believe that after all Google, Yahoo and others have done against our privacy, they are willing to put their tail behind their legs and erase all data about us. How can you be sure about that?

    Because I think they are smart enough to not lie about things that are quite easily checked. They are not small spyware companies hiding in a cellar. Microsoft makes a lot more money from operating systems and office software. As for Google's cookie games, this is dishonest but not outright lying. Do you not think Microsoft can do without knowing who searched for something particular after 1 1/2 year, or Ask cannot make it without knowing what was searched 1 1/2 year ago? I think this means some disadvantages, but not as big as being exposed lying about data retention.
     
  25. iceni60

    iceni60 ( ^o^)

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    ask sends browsing information to google even if you are using AskEraser.
     
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