xerobank - access and deposit account

Discussion in 'privacy technology' started by axle00, Jun 29, 2008.

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  1. axle00

    axle00 Registered Member

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    Hi I'm a new Xerobank user (I just signed up for the $1 for the first month thing), and I'm a bit confused by the "access account" and "deposit account". I know that funds are deposited into my deposit account and then I assume that I'm supposed to transfer them to my access account (although I don't know how to do that at this point).

    My question is, are these two accounts seperate? Like if someone knew what the number of my deposit account was, could they find out what my access account number was? Also since these are two seperate accounts, does this improve my anonymity/security?

    Also I heard that Xerobank themselves can't associate my personal info with either my access or deposit account number (i.e. they don't get my personal info from Dalpay). Is this true? edit - So am I actually anonymous to Xerobank as well?


    Finally I just wanted to point out that some of the links on the tutorials and manuals page don't work, and the installer that I downloaded from the software page didn't include the Xerobank mail program, even though it says it does (although I was able to setup Thunderbird properly).

    P.S. When is the Crypto Router going to be available, and will it effectively be the same as the software (vpn)?
     
  2. SteveTX

    SteveTX Registered Member

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    I think this will be covered in the VAULTS whitepaper.

    Quick answers:
    If you signed up already, and didn't elect to create an access account later, your deposit and access account are linked automatically and you don't have to manually move your account tokens. If they are linked, one goes to the other as a seemless transaction with no anonymization between them, just like a normal payment system. An attacker could discover the access account from having the deposit account login, in that situation. If they are unlinked, he could not, and now even the payments and your identity are anonymized from your account and thus xerobank itself. Yes, amazing :) So the former is like a normal VPN provider, the latter is for irreversible anonymous funding.

    All tutorials should be rewritten in the next few days.

    Crypto Routers are available this next week, I think.
     
  3. axle00

    axle00 Registered Member

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    Hey thanks for the quick reply :)

    I'm still a bit confused.

    Ok so if I DON'T already have an access account associated with a deposit account (which I do), then if I create an access account later to deposit my account tokens into, that access account and deposit account will NOT be linked?

    Can I create another access account that is NOT linked to my deposit account? I don't seem to see any option for doing that. There is an option to associate another access account to a deposit account, but I assume that means they will be linked.

    Also I don't see how - even if the two accounts are not linked together - that this is anonymous to Xerobank. Wouldn't they still have a record of which account tokens are moved to which access account?

    One question you didn't answer was about the "missing" Xb Mail program from the Xerobank setup program. (at least it was missing when I downloaded it a few days ago). Are you planning to include this? It's not that big of a deal for me since I got Thunderbird mail to work with Xerobank, but I wouldn't mind seeing it.

    Finally is there any advantage to using the crypto router as opposed to the vpn software?

    thanks again
     
  4. SteveTX

    SteveTX Registered Member

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    You don't even have to do that. If you wanted, you could just turn off the automatic token transfer and do it manually. Because we keep no logs, we wouldn't know if you had associated any prior access account with your deposit account.

    Good eyes. I'll get clarification. However, we'll be adding a new interface for you to create access accounts on the fly. Or to use it with our plastic cards we're going to start offering.

    Good question. Here's your answer: Everyone can see every token, only the guy with the right key can decode it, not even us. So if we aren't logging it, there's nothing we can do.

    We will be using it eventually.

    It's a tradeoff. The cryptorouter is on a 4mbit or 15mbit connection, on it's own network. Totally different than the normal xerobank network. Just another whitepaper to write, but it's got a different anonymity design on a whole other level. It's going to be for business clients, but we will also have one for consumer level.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2008
  5. axle00

    axle00 Registered Member

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    thanks again for the reply :)

    I'm definitely interested in trying the crypto router, if it's not too expensive.

    One question I have about it though is, since you say it's on a totally different network, that would mean that your customers are split between the two networks meaning that the total number of customers on each network would of course be much lower (let's say halved).

    Would this then affect the anonymity of any given customer on one of the networks?

    Also are you going to add any more exit nodes? So far I can only connect to "Best Effort" (What does this mean?), Canada and the Netherlands.


    edit: I guess I should also mention that overall I'm very happy with Xerobank so far, although I have noticed a bit of a slow down from my normal internet speed. It's not too bad though, as it's still fast enough to watch youtube videos and download large files.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2008
  6. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Registered Member

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    Steve, when do you anticipate the release of this white paper?

    In theory, couldn’t a determined adversary demand the list of all Deposit accounts from XeroBank and (especially for those without a password) thereby discover the identity of an individual Access account of interest? Beyond its own stated policies, what would prevent XeroBank itself from doing so?

    On the Account Association page of the XeroBank customer logon website for the Deposit account, I do not see an option to “turn off the automatic token transfer” nor an option to manually transfer a paid token from a Deposit account to an Access account. Steve, can you kindly clarify the procedures?

    Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2008
  7. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Registered Member

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    As far as I can determine, the “Best Effort” connection simply selects either Canada or the Netherlands at random, perhaps to achieve a degree of load balancing on the XeroBank network; otherwise, it is identical to manually connecting to Canada or the Netherlands. Steve, can you confirm or correct this interpretation?

    Thank you.

    P.S.: Adding a FAQ to the XeroBank website on "Best Effort" might be warranted.
     
  8. axle00

    axle00 Registered Member

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    If your deposit and access accounts aren't linked then it wouldn't matter.
     
  9. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Registered Member

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    Correct. But, as noted in post #6, the Account Association page of the XeroBank customer logon website for the Deposit account does not appear to contain an option to “turn off the automatic token transfer” nor an option to manually transfer a paid token from a Deposit account to an Access account. Therefore:

    • How do you disunite an existing link between a Deposit and Access account?
    • Having done so, how do you manually “transfer tokens” (payment) from the Deposit to the Access account?
    • Having done so, does the Deposit account continues to automatically bill the credit card that is registered with XeroBank?
    • Finally, is there a way to “pre-pay” a few months of XeroBank service, so that the process of manually “transfer tokens” between the Deposit and Access accounts can be done only occasionally (e.g., quarterly or semi-annually) rather than monthly?
    Thank you.

    P.S.: Please advise if these questions are better handled through a technical or sales support request to XeroBank, rather than this thread/forum.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2008
  10. SteveTX

    SteveTX Registered Member

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    Both networks are very well designed. The cryptorouter network is of an even more advanced design because we have full control of the client hardware. They are designed to operate independently, and don't have the same requirements for anonymity, so we aren't diluting the crowding effect. good question.

    Yes. We keep adding more and more, because Canada and Netherlands and USA are good peers for networks. We'll be adding other countries shortly. Some won't be directly selectable because bandwidth is premium on those servers, like Panama and Ireland etc. The best deal is to stay on Best Effort and let us do the switching for you.

    Thanks, I appreciate it commendation. We should have a customer reviews section, IMHO. Our system is 10x10 with gigabits of bandwidth to spare, so any delay is due to international network congestion, because you're doing multi-jurisdictional hops. When you're connected to Canada as your exit, your entry is either US, NL, DE or some other entry node we use.
     
  11. SteveTX

    SteveTX Registered Member

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    Deposit account and access accounts are independent. The deposit will stay active and bill the credit card, and deposit whatever tokens it gets to whatever account you choose. Infact, I think you could have multiple deposit accounts doing transfers to a single access account. For disuniting, I think you just change the access account you deposit to. You can't have one deposit funding lots of access cards. I'll check out the deposit account UI for that. As for pre-pay, there will be. You'll be able to buy "overdraft" tokens that have an unlimited life (>12 months) and the account can draw from it on a pay-as-you-go system once we have the plastic cards made available to the public.
     
  12. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Registered Member

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    Steve, please let us know the results of your examination of the Access/Deposit account UI. As far as I can determine, there isn’t a mechanism at present to allow a user to (1) disunite an existing link between a Deposit and Access account while continuing to use the same Access account, and (2) to manually “transfer tokens” (payment) from the Deposit to an Access account.

    Based on your description of the Access/Deposit account architecture, I suspect that the functionality to accomplish these objectives already exists. The problem, however, may be lack of access to that functionality for the user on the XeroBank website.

    Can you say more about the purpose and benefits of these “plastic cards”, and when they might be available?

    Thank you.
     
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