Wormguard Problem with Incredimail

Discussion in 'WormGuard' started by worldcitizen, Jun 18, 2003.

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  1. DolfTraanberg

    DolfTraanberg Registered Member

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    Before you do your system restore please make some notes on this configuration so you might notice the difference.
    Dolf
     
  2. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    Now that sounds as a good point.
    File versions, forgot to think about that completely.
    If you installed the one, either WG or IM, you might like to look in the windows explorer (i know it has another name in XP, which i forgot but you know) for changed or new files today and sort those on the last changes.
    save the last you think might belong to that.
    After you install the other, same story. Make sure you also look for version numbers.

    One thing is contra this idea:
    It is a point if you first install IM and after overwrite files with older WG files.
    But your IM worked at least a short time with first IM installed and after WG! so older files could have been overwritten.
    Normally the DCS installs don't overwrite an excisting file, no matter if the version is older or newer, but who knows?

    Yes, i'm thinking again, sorry for all the work and not thinking of this before.
    After your restore, you might like to look for the last files again and versions.
    Now you grab a nice little free tool:
    Faber Tools from www.faberbox.com
    You can see which files are running with that.
    You might like to save the output for yourself.
    Now close the thing, install one of the two programs, have another look in Faber Tools and dig for the installed program and it's files and versions running with that.
    Save that output now as well.
    Close the things, install the other, look again for the files for each of those two programs and versions and if anything was overwritten indeed.
    Now it could be interesting to see if there are changes and what changes the moment you install the WG protection.
    Or maybe you prefer the also free tool Prcview
    http://www.prcview.com (really great to have and dig in cases like your's now)

    Thinking again again: maybe you prefer first to look with one of these toys before going into the process of re-installing! Just to know which files are used by some application, that Prcview has a menu option to see exactly the files per application and what the same files are used for in different applications!
    So start with this little gem!
     
  3. worldcitizen

    worldcitizen Registered Member

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    Hi All,

    Thanks everyone for helping so much you are all fantastic.

    I did a System Restore..then another one..and another one... 5 Restores did not help. IM just died.

    I ended up re-installing XP... 6 hours to get all software & configurations the way I like. My whole Saturday lost.

    I used Outlook Express for 5 years because most anti-virus don't scan email clients I like. Now I have NOD32 (scans all clients) I am released from OE prison and so I bought IM..I HATE OE & am sick to death of it. IM makes me feel alive.

    I have plenty of security on my computer but would like to have had the added layer of WG. It would be nice if DCS could help but they are too busy right now.

    My money is down the drain & as well I have lost WG :( :(

    Very sorry for causing all you very nice people so much trouble and very sad to lose WG too :'( :'(

    Thanks for everything

    Dave
     
  4. DolfTraanberg

    DolfTraanberg Registered Member

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    Well if you want to give up, I'm sorry because I am sure we can fix this.
    You are the first with this trouble, so there must be a way to make it work.
    And if there is a way it will be found.
    Dolf
     
  5. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    DCS too busy to help you out?
    I can understand youtr frustrations but go look into the suggestions given with at least look at startup and running files in situations, did you use the prcview, faber tools, autostartviewer, all tools which would enable us and the DCS guys to look better into your problem?
    So many people trying, Jason asked you some questions which don't get answered, i have not seen a single log file and required system files versions logs as asked, or a screenshot of greyed out IM menu items, etc etc.
    I have only my own experience and read them from others also in other newsgroups who have no problems at all so of course we are trying but don't get it at the moment.
    To enable to help you better really the logs are needed.
    More because there is a WG4 in the build to be betatested soon, which would be right on time to know what's wrong in your case and for us betatesters to look especially extra at such points and to try to repeat your problem in other cases and solve it.
    Without any reinstall or uninstall of any software at the moment just make those logs; if you fee uncomfortable with posting them in a forum please email them to support@diamondcs.com.au where the WG developers themselves will receive them and look extra deep and maybe send you some test.
    Looking forward to further discussion and to help you out or in better said.
     
  6. worldcitizen

    worldcitizen Registered Member

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    OK Jooske,

    First, I'm not experienced with the programs you mentioned and I can't seem to access the site. I got prcview but haven't been able to get the others. Also, I haven't a clue how to use these once I get them but I'll keep trying to get the other progs - maybe the site is down temporarily just right now.

    Which unanswered questions are you referring to? Sorry if I have overlooked some things - it was not intentional.

    About screenshots of the greyed out menu items. Let me correct this. There are no greyed out menu items at all. I cannot provide screenshots because all the menu items LOOK normal. They appear in their normal state but when I click on them nothing happens. They just don't execute the function they're supposed to.

    I have contacted IM but they have no idea what it could be & only suggest uninstalling & re-installing which didn't help.

    I couldn't provide any logs yesterday becuse it took me many hours to re-install my OS and I was offline so I am sorry about that. But now do I re-install WG?

    Thanks

    Dave
     
  7. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    I just was there this minute so it is up now
    http://www.faberbox.com/fabertoys.asp
    Go to the screenshots, first example with the "dependencies"
    Nothing to kill, but you see they selected a process which given in the lower window the files which have to do anything with that process; that lower window can be saved as a log.
    You see it gives in one overview all files versions and dates and sizes, so it's easy to see after a new install if anything has changed.
    Of course in this case you concentrate on the IM and possible WG if you like to try that again.
    At the moment i would wait with that WG install as you just spoiled so much time on getting your system back in a working state even after uninstalling WG or trying to go back to a former restore point.
    You do make those manually when the system is back in order i hope, and i do hope you will be able to go back to such a point.

    With hijack this if you run it with everything closed except for hijackthis, in the output it could show conflicts, so that one you might like to post and wait for people's advices, don't fix anything before that.
    http://www.tomcoyote.org/hjt/

    So IM just freezes completely, but there is no crash and error message? If there is, the details posted here could help Jason a great deal.
     
  8. worldcitizen

    worldcitizen Registered Member

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    Hi,

    All this has really driven home to me my main weakness in my system and that is I have no drive backup software. Either today or tomorrow I'm getting an imaging program not just for this problem but because with all the software & configurations I now have, a re-install takes hours & hours whereas an image restore would only take maybe no longer than 15-30 minutes. My wife too gets very impatient when she has to wait several hours to use the internet while I restore everything manually.

    IM doesn't freeze completely but I can't use most options in the system tray menu & that's a real pain because whenever I get an email I or want to perform other actions I must go into the start menu - programs.
    Also if I want to go straight to IM's download page via the program I can't. Many inconveniences.

    Once I get my drive properly backed up I will dive into this problem.

    Thanks for your patience.

    Dave
     
  9. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    Do you mean to say IM does function properly when you start it from the Winsows > Start > programs
    but the systray is frozen?
    Then you also can't use the other icons in the systray and maybe not in the taskbar and tray either?
    If you minimize some window, do the icons on the desktop function in this freezing state or just and only not the IM icon in the systray?
    This could be very important info for Jason.
    WG4 will use only all new build DCS ingredients and it will have it's own systray icon to communicate more with the program.
    If you had error messages with the details it might be easier to see for Jason and the IM developers where exactly to look at.
     
  10. worldcitizen

    worldcitizen Registered Member

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    Hi,

    First here's a not from Gavin:

    Hi Dave,

    Im very sorry to hear it..

    The real problem definitely lies with the execution hook, and in Wormguard 4 this will be our own, completely compatible low level execution hook. We aren't sure of the old hook support by Microsoft - it seems fairly compatible but as you have seen, it is not !

    Wormguard 4 will be extensively tested but compatibility issues like this shouldn't be possible due to the method we are using. Sure there might be some problems, but nothing like this.

    .....

    I think that he is saying to wait for WormGuard 4 so I hope it comes very soon.

    To save everyone a lot of time & trouble it might be better to wait fro WG4 & then if it still occurs then we'll go right into the problem but if it is purely a WG3 problem which Gavin seemed to indicate then there's no point in trying to fix WG3 when it's going to be replaced anytime now.

    IF it does reoccur I now have bought Norton Ghost & GoBack & made a complete backup of my system on cd's so now I don't have to spend 7 hours re-installing my system. All it will take is about 30- 45 minutes.

    If there's one thing I'm grateful to this forum to is for pointing out my ignorance in not having proper backups.

    Thanks everyone.

    Dave
     
  11. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    Not just talking about WG but in general, we've seen people with ME or XP having many or having no problems at all, others with SP1 added with no problems anymore or no change or now in trouble, so it must be so individual to a system and what else is installed there, it can be some system file frustrating the whole matter, anything.
    This is why i do think your Fabertoys output with the file versions (sent to Gavin or Jason) can be really a great help to see if there is something in the current version.
    I do know what frustration is, really, and fortunately the DCS guys where able in cases to send testfiles till all worked fine on my system, i hope for the good of possible other people too.
    Don't you think in betatesting, the whole gang excited for the features and playing around and i frustrated with errors or other results in cases, my reactions at times so frustrated that they hardly dared to post their happy results :D till after some more testing or special versions for me i could finally join the gang.
    I'm not talking about WG here, i do lot of betatesting for several developers.

    The ghost is a real good idea, thought with system restore you could have had a same effect but probably not, as you showed in the WG/IM restore not working properly.

    I'm not 100% sure if Gavin's remark means to wait; if he has more ideas what to try and what to exclude i'm about sure he would have suggested that to try.
    As you did exclude IM already in one of your tries from the WG scanning, which is no good of course, as you want WG to alert if anything would be wrong in the emails.

    It could even be a third program running at the same time causes this. For instance one with a quick launch icon in the systray. WG doesn't use any resources, so it's not a memory problem. There can't be anything suspicious with the IM program code either, as it's a known program, i suppose you have downloaded it from reliable place, and if there would have been any known code pieces it will have been excluded for alarms in WG by long and if not, you would have got a warning message.
    I could only think about required system files, which you excluded already with installing first either of the programs, unless....... it's about XP system files which would be overwritten with one of the programs.
    So i hope in either situation --i suppose you have now XP with IM running fine-- you can make save a list of the dependencies for IM with the faber toys for instance (that seems the quickest and easiest at the moment) and send it to Jason/Gavin.
    It could be IM overwrites an XP file, which WG needs or windows itself.

    So you could even like to post a startup log with the hijackthis tool to see if there are any conflicts; some guys here like Pieter are really experienced to find possible wrongs inthere really quick as you might have seen in various threads.
    Don't ask me why i open the option for a third program making the freeze, maybe something resident or a browser enhancement.
     
  12. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    i read through this thread again and i realize it never became quite clear which functionality you miss in I.M after having WG at the same system.
    If it would be f.e. a frozen systray the problem would be very different from functions inside the I.M display.

    Did you ever try a fresh download from I.M ?

    You have XP home with SP1 still? and updated with everything available from the update site?

    Ever tried to see what LSPfix does make for a difference?
     
  13. worldcitizen

    worldcitizen Registered Member

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    I haven't used WormGuard for a few months now. It's a real pity that no-one seems to be able to fix this problem and now I regret buying it because I can't use it.

    I'm not going to troubleshoot for hours because that's not my job. I have bought about 30 programs this year and many others and only have problems with WormGuard so I believe it is a deficiency in WormGuard that causes this as all other software works perfectly on my machine.

    I am disappointed in the company and the product that I have had to shelve a product I paid for because no-one seems to be able to make a fix for it.

    The bottom line is that I paid for this product that doesn't work and I am just left in the lurch until Wormguard 4 comes out whenever that may be.

    I think that once DCS have their money I don't matter at all anymore.

    I sent a copy of Wormguard to Incredimail - hopefully they may take some interest in finding a fix. I'm fed up with just being left in the lurch - I am after all, a paying customer who has bought many of DCS products but as I said, I don't matter any more once money has changed hands.
     
  14. DolfTraanberg

    DolfTraanberg Registered Member

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    At least two post in this thread indicated that WG and IM can coexist together, so please don't blame DiamondCS for it, besides that, you are the first having this trouble.
    How can DiamondCS fix something which only can be reproduced by you ? :doubt:
    Dolf
     
  15. Pieter_Arntz

    Pieter_Arntz Spyware Veteran

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    Hi worldcitizen,

    Which version of Incredimail are you using?
    There was a new one a little while back. Tried that one yet?

    Regards,

    Pieter
     
  16. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    We did not read you back many months, waiting for your replies on our questions to be able to look from various sides at your problems, hoping for good news, while in the meantime development for WG-4 continues.
    The people would have loved to hear your further developments to make extra sure nothing is conflicting in any way with whatever program any of the family is or could be using ever in far future and that everything is well documented so in case of any unexpected issue from outside causes they can help to solve where possible.
    DCS makes about the impossible possible when it comes to programming and customers support but some cooperation is needed.
    I don't know for example if Incredimail has an answer, what they did tell you, if they contacted DCS to look for any solution together, etc.
    Think the developers here and a whole forum have looked into your problems to the best we can and nobody was able to reproduce it, people installed your software even though they never would use it normally themselves and we just don't get the problems described.
    There could be a third program conflicting here.
    Not sure which kind of logs the developers would need to find such a possibility.
    If it is only windows / WG / IM running and nothing else, no firewall, no resident av/at, the whole autostart empty from not strictly necessary applications, do you still have your problem just after a fresh reboot?
    Did you post a recent hijackthis log?
     
  17. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Registered Member

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    Hi all,
    I have been reading about the problems worldcitizen is having with IM and WG , he isn't the only one .
    I have both programs installed and have some problems as well . :rolleyes:
    IM cannot be accessed using the icon in the system tray, I have to put a shortcut on my desk top .
    All the features that allow you to download more notifiers , letters, animations and such will not work and there are one or two more things that are screwed up but these things are not really a problem for me, the e-mail system itself works fine and I can download anything my wife wants directly from the IM web site . It seems the links to the IM website (or whatever they are called in computer language) will not work once WG is installed. If I was using the payed for version of IM I might have a problem .
    If it wasn't for my wife I wouldn't be using it at all.

    Maybe this info can help you fix worldcitizens' problems.

    Best of luck ,
    Frank
     
  18. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Registered Member

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    Sorry I forgot to tell you that i'm using win XP Pro sp1

    :DIt's too early to be thinking :D
     
  19. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    Hmmmm thanks Grasshopper!
    Not being able to access URLs could be a firewall or HOSTS file thing, or security settings in the browser, cookies, zones, and such.
    WG would jump up in case it would detect suspicious code intending to do things on your system.
    You could allow or exclude the pages, maybe...
    Did you try that way?

    One starts thinking in the direction of a system file but WC tried to install both orders, IM first or WG first, so there was not the change of possible overwritten files --
    wondering if with IM installed does WG work all fine or does that have sudden problems too together with IM?
    In the latter case one could think of another system file not installed by none of the two programs, but maybe a windows file ---can be so many reasons why a system file is no longer original with all the security patches, among others-- which in certain circumstances causes what you're now experiencing.
    If i remember the required system files for TDS page, there is recommended for the XP users to keep what you have, but checking the OCX files versions for instance if yours are really newer than those on the site, and your SP's up to date, ........
    think we've tried this part already, didn't we?

    It's so strange only a few buttons, not all of them are frozen! Maybe IM can have another look at their quicklaunch part in the software --- hoped it would all be ok with a new program using a quicklaunch, like TDS, PE, CS, etc.
     
  20. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Registered Member

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    Hi Jooske ,
    Allowing or excluding pages in what program o_O??

    WG seems to be working fine for me , it often jumps up to let me know about too many extensions so I assume it's working .

    I'll throw another wrench in the gears , I just switched from Internet explorer to Mozilla firebird and all the URLso_Oin IM are now working o_O o_O o_O
    In case you didn't figure it out yet I don't have a lot of experience with computers so you will believe me when I tell you I didn't mess with the security settings in Internet Explorer .

    Regards
    Frank
     
  21. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    Hi again, i meant files excluded or names allowed in WG, as that was the program not allowing entrance/use of them, wasn't it?

    The other browser might not have default settings which IE has and with this result. Does IM work all correct when you have the other browser up and running in stead of IE?

    Would love to read if this is a temporary option for other people too as far as they have this problem.
    Maybe the WG-4 creators know if there could be something specific.


    We all learn from questions from others so post ahead for our general education! It certainly helps!
     
  22. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Registered Member

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    Hi Jooske,

    I'm sorry it took so long to get back to you :doubt:

    Everything other than the IM icon in the system tray is now working fine with IM , everything does what it's supposed to do.
    I never touched WG settings to allow or disallow anything, is it possable WG changes something in Internet Explorer that prevents the urls in IM from workingo_O?? Like worldCitizen my IM worked fine until WG was installed and like WC I tried uninstalling and reinstalling both programs both ways to no avail , to me it sounds like WorldCitizen would benefit by changing his browser .

    Just a thought ,
    Regards
    Frank
     
  23. Robyn

    Robyn Registered Member

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    Just to add to the Incredimail post, I did use this but as soon as I found the implications I uninstalled and would never use it again. The uninstall found 400 left overs in the registry. I spent further time doing a String search in the registry with Reg.1st Aid and I was shocked to say the least :eek: in total 1500 incredi and incredl entries were found :eek:

    Sorry to hijack the thread on Worm guard but just thought this information may help with the IM issue. Several of my friends on another forum have uninstalled and found exactly the same as I have done.
     
  24. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    That surely is a lot of entries! And WG never gave a beep on it's running? When i tested it long ago it didn't protest.
    If it's about nice stationaries it's most certainly worth to look at Cloudeight, which has marvelous things and never found any dangers spy- or adware in those at all.
     
  25. cyberdyne t1000

    cyberdyne t1000 Registered Member

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    Hi folks...!

    Before installing wg I ran faber tools and found IM loaded 63 modules and my life was tickedy boo. I installed wg and enabled protection and ran faber again. This time IM loaded 65 modules (2 extra dll) namely MSVBVM60.dll and wguard.dll. IM now refuses to load from the sytem tray but will load from a desktop link :rolleyes: and of course the helpcentre no longer functions too. I have followed the IM WG debate and tried all suggestions offered but still this problem exists. Maybe the clue is the dll?

    Regards Harry
     
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