Windows Vista questions : choosing the right version

Discussion in 'other software & services' started by gkweb, Jan 27, 2007.

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  1. gkweb

    gkweb Expert Firewall Tester

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    Hello,

    I am eventually planning to buy Windows Vista, either for a test machine, or for my main computer. I've read nearly all that has been said about Vista, but cannot find some details I need to know, to help me buying the right Vista edition (I have an Athlon 64 3800+ with a nForce4 chipset, my computer passed sucessfully the Vista compatibility test from Microsoft).

    I have read the official Microsoft page, but could not find what I was looking for : http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/editions/default.mspx

    1 - Does the Home Premium edition allows NTFS files permissions to be edited via the "Security" tab, or is this tab hidden like in the current XP Home ? (same issue between XP Home and XP Pro). Or do we need the Business Edition to do that ? Is the Home premium edition somehow limited in rights management ? (multiple users/account, file permission, secpol.msc, etc...).

    2 - I've read that the Kernel Patch Protection is enabled only in the 64bits Vista version, and am interested in it. However, at my local shop website, they only show online the near availibility (January 30) of all Vista editions, from Home basic to Ultimate, without any mention of 32 or 64 bits ? Are Vista 32bits and 64bits editions different DVD boxes, or does the box includes both 32 and 64bits versions ?

    3 - My last question is, what do you think about the 64bits edition ? Do you think it is like the current XP 64bits, that few programs are compatible with it and that it causes more headaches than anything else ? Or does it worth it ?

    I'm trying to decide between buying the Home Premium or the Business edition, and between the 32bits or 64bits version. Among all of the articles about how bad Vista is supposed to be, and how DRM is evil, I did not find answers to my questions :)

    Regards,
    gkweb.
     
  2. DVD+R

    DVD+R Registered Member

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    At the moment, all the advice I can give you, is to stay away from Vista for at least 12 months after the release date. I'm sure there will be many issues that need ironing out with this OS The tech support people who built my pc Advised me of this,and said it would need some fine tuning still before Vista can Compare with the stability of XP. For that reason I dont intend to rush out and buy it untill Ive read,and heard several reports in the next 6 months or so, Then I will decide :)
     
  3. Pedro

    Pedro Registered Member

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    Seems that Ultimate will have Bitlocker Drive Encryption; and Business Backup and Networking, Remote Desktop. Home Premium doesn't have these.

    Business doesn't have Windows Media Center and Windows Meeting Space, nor BitLocker. But it does have Business Backup and Networking, Remote Desktop.

    Some links:
    http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=12
    http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_rtm_galleries.asp

    This one seems to be what you want:
    http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2068721,00.asp

    Hope this helps you
     
  4. controler

    controler Guest

    I am using Ultimate and it has bit locker, however I tried enabling it on my machine and the write up claims if you don't have the hardware for it (latest CPU) you will need to use a USB key. I couldn't get it to work. I don't know if it is because I have three partitions and one has XP home on it.
    WOuldn't work with a USB key for me. I never tried it on my laptop which is much newer and also has XP media & Vista. I know you need a seperate partition to use it.

    controler
     
  5. ThunderZ

    ThunderZ Registered Member

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    Keep in mind I am not saying this with any other intentions then stating what I have read. Can not find the link but it is out there. Perhaps someone signed up for MS beta testing can confirm or deny. MS is already looking for testers for Vista SP1. IMO, this dose not give me the "warm fuzzies" about the final release of Vista right around the corner.
     
  6. VikingStorm

    VikingStorm Registered Member

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    Since a lot of people essentially wait for SP1 irregardless of how the RTM is, it would make sense for them to make and release a SP1 as quick as possible.

    In any case, I would wait with upgrading, if not for any things MS needs to iron out, but also the rest of the companies. Creative has some atrocious vista drivers for some of their sound cards. They keep removing features after every beta driver they have released so far, and somehow at the same time keep adding more bugs. The first ones they released worked okay, except creative time bombed them for some reason. The second one was worse, and the latest one two weeks ago introduced a huge CPU drain bug and also makes it take over 5 minutes to shut-down windows. I have to result to third party drivers (kx project).
     
  7. ThunderZ

    ThunderZ Registered Member

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    Just can not figure out what Creative is doing? Seemingly awesome hardware but just can not get their code straight. Ahhhh....but I stray OT. Apologies to the OP.
     
  8. Ice_Czar

    Ice_Czar Registered Member

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    while personally Id never let that DRM laden crap near a box I owned (see sig)
    I can see how for professional reasons someone might not have a choice

    if that is the case, avoid the "upgrade" path

    Vista "upgrade" drops compliance checking, requires old OS to install arstechnica

    Its all about customer satisfaction :cautious:

    just count yourselves lucky
    Microsoft removed transfer limitations from Vista

    between all that was supposed to be groundbreaking and was dropped and all the different SKU's with various shades of functionality its no wonder your confused, I can't really say which choice would meet your needs or the features included, but figured the upgrade issue might be relevant
     
  9. Lamehand

    Lamehand Registered Member

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    Unless you don't have another choice, it is best to stay clear of this DRM-trojan.
    There is no good reason to use it, other then to fill the pockets of Billy-boy.
    There are loads of alternatives that are better and, more importantly, safer to use.

    I don't understand that people who are 'in the know' of computers are so eager to install this crap and pay a lot of money for it.

    Lamehand
     
  10. Ice_Czar

    Ice_Czar Registered Member

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    because they may soon be having to secure and fix it for all the sheep

    baaaahhh :p

    but I think he made the point of the thread pretty clear, this isnt about how bad or DRM laden the OS is
    in fact all that noise has been keeping him from determining his actual needs

    Id recommend some search queries that filter out that stuff like

    vista features premium home -drm

    looks like a worthwhile return
    http://www.google.com/search?q=vist...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
    refine it further

    vista features premium home -drm "file permissions"

    add subtract follow leads start juggling around terms
    maybe a refresher course is in order
    http://www.searchlores.org/tips.htm

    comparison
    might be a good word :p
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2007
  11. gkweb

    gkweb Expert Firewall Tester

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    Thanks you for your answers and the links :)

    As to why would I want to buy Vista ? Simply because I won't really have the choice, working on the field, I cannot aford not to know Vista.
    Of course, I could wait a month or so, but ultimately, whatever Microsoft is releasing as new OS, I must know it, that I like it or not :)
    Also, if nextly a user who has bought a new computer with Vista on it, call me for support (virus infection for instance), will he accept if I tell him : "Sorry but Vista was too expensive for me and is a shitty OS. Consequently I don't know this OS and I cannot help you" ? I don't think so ;)

    Moreover, I have read a lot of good things people never talk about. Despite DRM issues, driver troubles, and the hardware requirement, there is good changements. For instance : new kernel management, reworked memory management, ASLR (Address Space Layout Randomization), Kernel Patch Protection (like XP x64), new driver model, many features to improve stability (that it works or not is another subject), protected mode for IE, UAC, etc... More info at this french article : http://www.presence-pc.com/tests/windows-vista-noyau-509/
    (sorry couldn't find an equivalent in english).

    Finally, about the differences between Home Premium and Business editions, talking about networking, the Business edition seems only to have in addition, Remote Desktop (client+server) and the ability to join a domain. Everything else (LAN, WIFI, network pannel) seems to be the same (I'm not 100% sure).

    Going back to digging among the links you quoted :)

    Regards,
    gkweb.
     
  12. Lamehand

    Lamehand Registered Member

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    I understand, there is no escape for you, when you're in that game you have to know about it and be able to deal with customer-problems.

    I'am glad we simple mortals still have a choice, for now. :doubt:

    Lamehand
     
  13. Ice_Czar

    Ice_Czar Registered Member

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    new driver model would be one of the bad things :p
    http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

    and as for PatchGuard

    http://www.uninformed.org/?v=3&a=3
    http://computerworld.com.my/ShowPage.aspx?pagetype=2&articleid=4309&pubid=4&issueid=106

    and Windows Defender
    http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2173632/researchers-say-vista-prone

    and of course busted HIPS in 64bit
    forcing folks to the big boys

    malware authors have had quite a bit of time to ready their guns for Vista and access too
    look at how well they have already employed the prerelease to their own advantage
    http://www.itpro.co.uk/news/103186/cracked-vista-copies-hide-malware.html

    and somehow I think you need to bone up on the DRM issue as well
    http://www.geekzone.co.nz/juha/2105
    since what many may be bringing you are boxes that dont want to play "their data"

    taken in that light Vista might be a great boon to a pro like you :p
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2007
  14. ThunderZ

    ThunderZ Registered Member

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    Just one of the reasons I got out of "the game". It quit being fun and started being work. Between MS\Vista and OEMs` branding mobos. I just do not like the direction the whole industry is heading. :mad:
     
  15. Lamehand

    Lamehand Registered Member

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    The motto in the industry seems to be "It's not your computer, you are only allow to pay for it and play with it under our conditions".

    And as i understand this vista thing is going to bite us all, even if you don't use it, because it will drive up the prices of hardware even further, reason; DRM must be able to play with it.

    Lamehand
     
  16. ThunderZ

    ThunderZ Registered Member

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    That seems to be the same thing I am seeing. Just Hope I have the $$$$ to build one last High-end PC before all the after market parts suppliers are driven out of business. My understanding is that soon the OS will be so "locked in" to all the major hardware components that if the builder of the part(s) is not in lock-step with MS then it will not work. It will a sad day.
     
  17. Ice_Czar

    Ice_Czar Registered Member

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    might consider doing something

    http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/w...vista-developers-what-s-behind-the-music.aspx
    http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2007/01/24/nostalgia-and-innovation.aspx
    http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/w...windows-vista-shines-at-ces-best-of-show.aspx
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=265623870345358686&q=vista devs
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7665229648244661280&q=vista devs
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3569634155276530854&q=vista devs

    pity I dont have a vidcamera to post video replies
    think Ive burned out that nom de plume :cautious:
    at least on their blog

    But there are lots of possible variants to CatoTheXXXX
    funny how a lifetime as a professional commercial spin doctor
    prepares one for a late career in agitprop :p
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2007
  18. Pedro

    Pedro Registered Member

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    Vraiment français.:) C'est dificile mantenir toujours la cohérence , je sais. Pour moi aussi le français, plus que le anglais:p C'est bien çao_O?

    gkweb is right when he says we exaggerate a lot. What was your first OS?
    The word Wintel comes to mind.

    Vista is better, AFAIK, just that there are things that don't add up, that's all. Ice makes sure he covers them all:D
    I sure won't buy in the near future. But like i said before, if it comes with a new pc:doubt:
     
  19. ThunderZ

    ThunderZ Registered Member

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    Have already read stories and seen pictures of empty shelves from major retailers removing most all XP loaded towers and lap tops. Seems Vista is pretty much all that is being offered on OEM PCs`. Although I have not read anything about XP cds` being pulled.
     
  20. Ice_Czar

    Ice_Czar Registered Member

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    How to get a Windows tax refund

    :p
     
  21. gkweb

    gkweb Expert Firewall Tester

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    Someone,

    "there is good changements."

    Oops, my mistake. Indeed it is a french word, I wanted to say that "there is good new things" or good new features. I hope everyone got it nonetheless.

    Thanks for the notice :)

    Regards,
    gkweb.
     
  22. ThunderZ

    ThunderZ Registered Member

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    Great info. and a must read for anyone who buys instead of builds a PC with the intent of wiping it clean and installing the OS of there choice. I would look into this even if I were going to install an earlier vers. of Windows. In my case, with the exception of my lap top, build my own and will continue to for as long as parts are available. So at this time it is not a concern.
     
  23. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    i would just purchase from a company that ships a pc with no OS.
    there is quite alot of people that wouldd even with laptops.
    or just build my own pc.
    lodore
     
  24. gkweb

    gkweb Expert Firewall Tester

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    A good link I've found at another forum about new/modified Vista's features :
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_Vista

    For those thinking that there is only bad things in Vista, read the chapters about
    "Networking", and "Kernel and core OS changes". There is great improvments in these areas.

    There is good and bad in Vista, not only bad :)
    The worst for me, besides DRM and driver issues, is probably the price... :ouch:

    Regards,
    gkweb.
     
  25. ThunderZ

    ThunderZ Registered Member

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    There are so many people out there that are just not aware of all the options available to them. Or, do not feel capable of following up on their options of either building their own or even simply installing an OS. MS :cautious: and OEMs` :cautious: count on this to sell their product. :doubt:
     
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