No it isn't all marketing. You want to be blind to the reality, it's your choice. I'm seeing it with my eyes everyday. Oh please, prove them wrong. And this is the pretty much irrelevant data that you have to support your claims. I'm not looking into this data, I'm looking at a far bigger picture to understand Microsoft's decisions. lmao! "deal with Metro"? Don't tell me that one click to get to the desktop mode is making you "deal with Metro". To despise Windows 8 entirely, which brings so many improvements, because of an extra click to get to the desktop, is a ridiculous exaggeration. Also, almost instantly, the Metro will be much more attractive to devs; the Windows Runtime will allow devs to create better apps with ease, that can also be ported more easily to other platforms like Windows Phone. Metro and the related changes are here to solve a number of technical problems and questions from the past, from the present and from the future: that's what you aren't understanding. It's not just new fancy buttons/effects.
It will be your choice, to run the Metro apps that happen to come with ads or not. Just like happens now with software that is ad-supported (you have the choice to install them or not) -- but the class of Metro apps with ads will *obligatorily* have ads that look much better and are much less obtrusive, that's what you can see from the news of that blog (unlike now, where Microsoft has no control whatsoever on ad-supported software's design decisions).
Reality? You've left that behind & waved goodbye to it long ago. This is just marketing, I'm not blind to that. MS want people to buy their new OS. That's what they do. Fair enough, but please, don't insult my intellect by claiming that this is not selling a consumer product. LOL It doesn't matter what I can or cannot prove. You just bend the figures to appear to say what you want them to anyway. Like your asseveration (& figures) to prove that the global economy is not in recession. It all depends on how you define recession. It's not a global boom time that's for sure. You may as well argue how many angels can stand on the head of a pin. I bet money you will claim that the very poll figures on this thread are irrelevant in some way. ROTFLMAO, you don't need a crystal ball to see that response coming. Yeah, the big picture of profit & return. No, your response is typically exaggerated (almost to the point of egregiousness). Metro is not particularly user friendly to desktop users & you know it. I really do believe that MS will change this when 60% of potential customers refuse to upgrade. I'm sure Win 8 is more advanced & solved many problems from the past, but you are really contradicting yourself here, because surely Win 8 without the hybridised Metro would be just as good, & in fact less complicated. I've told you why Metro is being combined with Win 8 as a hybrid. I'll make it easy for you & break it down: 1/ It was probably cheaper to combine two operating systems into one release, thus saving past & future development costs etc. 2/ Microsoft want to sell Surface, combining the operating systems prepares people by familiarisation to use a Surface tablet. 3/ It encourages developers of both software & hardware to create apps & products specifically for Surface to increase its marketing potential (you mentioned Windows Phone). Win 8/Metro/Surface is a marketing move. As I stated earlier, even in the present dire global economic climate, it is still a clever marketing strategy. Although I do believe that it could have waited until the market was in a better condition. Only an idiot would market a luxury item in a recession (or, to be a tad pedantic: a time of slow or virtually no growth). Of course, the present global economy isn't Microsoft's fault though. It's just a bit of bad timing. I understand why the need to sell it now. IMHO all the snake oil in the world isn't going to make Win 8/Metro palatable to the vast majority of desktop/laptop users. The voters on this poll, who you appear to dismiss as not particularly important, bordering on the ephemeral, are very likely a fairly representative cross-section of the potential MS market. You can wriggle around it as much as you like, but it seems a majority here actually tend to agree with me.
Well, at least one of Microsoft OEM's got ticked off Microsoft launched it's own tablet. I had a feeling this was going to happen. I can't imagine Microsoft withdrawing from the tablet market as Acer's founder thinks. Acer: Microsoft Surface will fail in fight with Apple Moderators: Feel free to move to the apropriate thread.
MS would be very wise to add the ability to boot into the traditional desktop. Booting into Metro is just one more annoying thing to get out of the way for most laptop and desktop users...
Hahaha what an interesting read, i like when Daveski and Peter goes into war mode. LOL Anyways as some people here have mentioned, Metro would not be a problem if they only forced touchscreen based devices to use it BUT they are forcing all the people to use it, including people that still uses the traditional mouse and keyboard, come on that's NON SENSE!!
You are applying a weird and very broad definition of marketing here. I can think/see/sense the ways where such tech advances can improve what I do routinely. This is enough for me to not dismiss this as "all marketing plots". Besides, marketing, publicity are only part of the picture. I can perfectly see the value of these products without the marketing/publicity (and no, I'm not a "consumerist" person). What I'm trying to say is that it doesn't matter if the figures are part of a marketing attempt. What's important is if they reflect the reality or not. Profit & return is an objective. To achieve it, you need successful products that address the needs of the market. That's the problem. The market shows that desktop users are migrating to more mobile platforms, especially tablets. The "desktop" isn't at the center of the stage anymore. The computing world is changing fast. I don't think so. The Metro style is solving several problems as well. For new users with time to explore, and especially those users who buy tablets, there will be plenty to discover and unearth in Windows 8's interface. Learning the ins and outs of how it works will likely be an enjoyable part of the Windows 8 experience.
No, I am not applying a weird definition of anything. You are starting to sound like a love-struck schoolgirl with a crush. It's a new operating system from Microsoft for god's sake, not the invention of time travel or cold fusion. I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. I'm pretty sure you don't either. Well, unless you are an hegemony, then you can pretty much dictate the market. Although, a recent Wilders poll seemed to indicate, that 60% of people who voted on the said poll, seemed to think that their market needs were not particularly addressed with Win 8. That's an interpretation. I'm not so sure that's particularly accurate. This growth in tablets was kick-started probably by the iPad. There are other interpretations that consider this apparent tablet-fever is merely a statistical blip or a fad. It looks to me that Microsoft seem a bit insecure about the future & so are driving this supposed tablet renaissance with Metro & Win 8. It's all still about marketing, even if you're in denial about this. Yet desktop & laptop sales are still greater than tablet sales. I doubt that it is changing as fast as many seem to believe. LOL! And these 'problems' are? Meanwhile, there will also be those who just want take their machine out of the box & use them as computers without having a 'wonderful time' exploring. ROTFLMAO! You really should write brochures for Microsoft.
No, it doesn't. It shows that people are buying tablets/ phones. Not that they're buying them instead of anything else. They aren't 'migrating.'
Yes and microsoft is desperately trying to remove it or did you not know that? https://www.theverge.com/2012/5/31/3054348/microsoft-windows-8-start-button-legacy-code-removal Start8 looks nothing like the original start menu, the closest you will get is Classic Shell and there is NO guarantee either of these programs will work come release. Similarly to how Microsoft removed the registry key that disabled metro they're axing as many workarounds as they can. I apologize, what I meant was "User with enough coordination to hit normal sized buttons with a precision pointer device (That'd be a mouse) are screwed by metro." Why? Because we don't need buttons big enough to chest bump but hey I guess your the odd one out. Everything in windows 8 could have been technically achieved without metro stating otherwise is a delusion. The OS did not need big giant block buttons it needed performance and security. Oh yeah like how they've completely ignored the feature request of users/business asking to boot into metro? The vast majority of the people I talk to are running Windows XP and few would even look at windows 8 seriously. It's system wide slowness, want to unlock the screen? Slide the lockscreen up. Want to manage a program? Go to the top left corner slide down then select the app. It's not meant for mouse and keyboard it's meant for tablets. Yes and how long before Microsoft does everything in it's power to ensure Start8 no longer works? Microsoft is attempting to kill the desktop and is stabbing every paying customer who uses a desktop PC (And isn't completely bonkers) in the back. Well when you put it like that (In random opinion form) how could I deny it? I'm sorry you're not that charismatic I won't blindly accept your opinion as fact maybe you should prove some PROOF?
I believe that if Apple eventually comes up with a cheaper line of computers (about 500€ to 800€) and maybe with some big game publishers support, Microsoft will surely lose many customers...
I think that you're probably quite right about this, I suppose it depends on the economics of achieving that. Apple seem to be doing well at the moment, I wonder if they would even be prepared to take a bit of a loss to take advantage of Microsoft's snafu with Metro/Win 8?
Yes, you are. Not all descriptions of products and tech are necessarily marketing and publicity, even if they are positive. I'm trying to assess the reality, nothing more, nothing less. Microsoft has no hegemony in the tablet market, in fact, it has almost no presence in it for now. And polls here don't necessarily reflect the reality of the big picture, just see the rejection against Facebook. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/apr/25/tablet-pc-market-analysis The need for immersive apps, for example. Put a Metroified device in front of most people and they coo and burble excitedly. Plus it has the significant advantage that even the most design-challenged geek can make something look pretty decent just by mucking around with fonts and solid blocks of colors. True. Maybe Windows 8 isn't for dogs that can't learn some new tricks after all.
Everyone sees Apple as a premium hardware/software company, i don't think hey're ready to take that path anytime soon, although what you said IMO is right, if they ever take that way and has enough support from developers, they will surely take a fair share of Microsoft market share easily.
For me it is going to be very simple. Win8 will have an interface that I am used to and operates as normal, or thier new interface will need to be better than the old. I expect a new interface to make my tasks easier with an almost seamless transition from the old way to the new way. If winVista or win7 is any indication, they will likely not care about how it has always been, and plunk down an interface that leaves the battle scarred veterans wondering where things are and why it takes so much more effort to do things. IMO M$ is terrible about realizing it is a PITA to change years worth of familiarity with shiny new looks. If linux would just get support for gaming, it might radically change the landscape. But honestly though, gaming is changing on pc as well, and not for the better IMO. The longer I use a computer, the more I see things change that don't seem as advances. Most of it due to greed IMO. Ah well, thus is life. Win8 has the potential, IMO, to push a lot of advanced users to alternatives if they try to stick us with a tablet interface. If I wanted a tablet, I would buy one for petes sake. Sul.
If I were Microsoft, I would trade those few boring "advanced users" for a big share of the new and excited ones that are buying new tech like iPads, anytime. rofl However, with a few mods, Windows 8 can suit all IMO.
I am sure they will. However, I don't think it is "few". Anyone using a windows machine since around 1995 would be included in that overall demographic. That is a lot of users. Enough to stop thier sales machine - probably not. They likely are thinking more in terms of the next generation rather than us old "boring" users who put up with all thier bugs and problems and made things work. Makes you wonder, once us boring advanced users no longer want to re-learn the new versions of windows, are there enough users who care to be advanced and boring? lol, I think a lot of the now generation is more concerned with thier facebook account working with thier new computer and phone/tablet than in making sure thier OS is not buggy and stays secure. But, thats just boring old me, a veritable tech fuddy-duddy. Or, as I like to think, thats just me, wondering why we have to reinvent the wheel entirely when a new set of rubber tires could easily give more mileage while still keeping the same old wheel. I am going back to some boring coding on my oh-so-tweaked version of windows that is fuzzily familiar Sul.
No, I'm just being rational. I admit, unlike you, I'm not a besotted Microsoft fanboy, & I recognise marketing spiel when I see it. In what way? Their operating system, Windows, is an hegemony though. Although many people love & use Facebook, it would be interesting to see how many people use it in comparison to the global computer-using population. I wonder if it would reflect the same figures as on Wilders? Anyway, I don't see what your comparison has to do with what people on this poll voted. Oh yeah, a Guardian article written by a journalist. That proves everything then. You may as well say "All cats have four legs, all dogs have four legs, therefore all cats are dogs!" The only people I have known who coo & burble regularly are usually on drugs, something I am beginning to suspect you are doing. So, that's what tablet computers are for! Meanwhile, back in reality ... Having paws & being a quadruped may be an advantage with Win 8. Most evolved primates however, don't seem to like it much. This quote from someone called 'OceanTide' from Tomwa's link says it more or less all: "OceanTide's reply: Another thing. I’m really tired of people who claim that metro is fine, that they’re afraid of change and need to adapt and whatever lame-ass excuse astrosurfers use to justify this horrid experience on a destkop." This is nothing to do with being a Luddite or not wanting to adapt to new things. This is about having something that a huge majority don't want forced onto them. The regular 'taunting' about being an 'old dog' is just marketing again!! Why you can't see this is quite frankly an astounding lack of perspicacity on your behalf. You don't appear to be able to see the wood for the trees. There are those of us, however, who can not only see the wood & the trees, but the small village beyond, & we have flame-throwers.
The need for "boring advanced users" to maintain the system secure and stable has always been a flaw, one you can credit in part to the (now expired) period of oversight from the US Justice Department's anti-trust ruling. Now that barrier is out of the way and Microsoft is free to make sure its products 'just work'. Now look at this interesting opinion about Windows 8 that I just found:
When microsoft releases a version that I can install on my wifes/family members machines, make sure the hardware works, and walk away from, for good, then you can rave about how great it all is. Until then, no matter what supposed proof you try to give me, I will consider thier past track record and hold to my opinion that it will require someone with above average COMPUTER skills to properly maintain a windows box - to remove virii/trojan/worm/malware, to fix glitches, to shore up security, etc etc. And being such a person to do this, I will be expecting the same set of tools I have been using since 1995 (more or less) to get that job done. Why would I want to make my life more difficult? Moving everyone I know over to a linux flavor would be more beneficial because at least it takes security seriously. Will win8 be the epitome of operating systems? I guess we will see. Sul.
I think Windows 8 has the potential to be that version. But, of course, to discover it, you'll have to try it (and trust it, to some extent).
I wasn't too sure about it to start with, but at this point I have decided that the day they release it to TechNet I will be pulling down my copy and giving it a spin.
Okay, finally decided to pull the trigger and download it. I'll be downloading it today (Overnight) and testing it tomorrow, then i'll be able to give my humble opinion and stop bashing it just by the looks and reviews.
