Will Wormguard survive?

Discussion in 'WormGuard' started by Starrob, Jul 22, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Starrob

    Starrob Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2004
    Posts:
    493
    Wormguard was a product that I had a slight interest in. I was waiting around until WG 4.0 was developed although some have told me to buy version 3.0 now because WG 4.0 is just around the corner.

    I am glad I held off on this purchase because now the question is will the Wormguard product line be continued or discontinued? I assume because WG does not require constant updates that WG might still be aroundo_O but who knows.

    Will WG stay at version 3.0 or will there eventually be a WG 4.0? I don't want to buy a product that is not being actively developed for all products can use improvement whether minor or major.




    Starrob
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2005
  2. Wayne - DiamondCS

    Wayne - DiamondCS Security Expert

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Posts:
    1,533
    Location:
    Perth, Oz
    Only TDS is affected by the TDS decision - not WormGuard or any of our other programs. I'm also happy to say that a new release of WormGuard is just around the corner, and with TDS off our plate we've got a lot more time for it now :)
     
  3. Starrob

    Starrob Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2004
    Posts:
    493
    Ok....I will take a look at this product when version 4.0 comes out.


    Starrob
     
  4. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,046
    Hi Starrob

    I would consider it now. It still has a forsure place in the security layer. As I've posted elsewhere, I ran that 10 email tests of how well your setup catches nasties in Email. I tested all 3 of the ISP's I use. All of them knocked out about 55% of the bad stuff. But much to my surprise(and delight) Wormguard was what caught the rest.

    Pete

    PS Way to go Wayne.
     
  5. richrf

    richrf Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
    Posts:
    1,907
    Hi all,

    I always purchased products based upon current needs, rather than future possibilities. On my system, WormGuard plays a vital security role and I would pay for it whether or not there ever was a 4.0. Other users use other means to defend against malicious scripts and probably would not find WormGuard as attractive. For me, WormGuard has performed tremendously and I would highly recommend it, but if it is not a "must have" (it is for me), then possibly waiting for 4.0 might make sense.

    Rich
     
  6. Starrob

    Starrob Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2004
    Posts:
    493

    Sorry, I can't do so until I see a actual update. Last January, I jokingly made comments about TDS-4 not coming into existence by the time I would get off the ship that I work on this past May. I was only joking but 4 and a half months later when I returned there was no TDS-4, Jason had left, and the TDS board had little activity with the exception of a few people who would ask about TDS-4 and would get their thread closed.

    I have talked privately with one member who bought TDS-3 only to support the development of TDS-4 which is what they really wanted. They are diss-astisfied with the offer of licences for PG and Port Explorer (I think they already own them and don't need additional licences) and they have made the comment that if they don't get some type of compensation in the form of some type of future product then they will never pay money for another DCS product.

    As for me, I guess I have had TDS-3 maybe 3 years or more. I have probably got my worth out of the product, so I am not as bitter BUT DCS has to prove to me that they will actually update their products now. DCS would probably do itself a favor by doing less talking and more action.

    Over the past few months there has been less talking, now I need to see the action in order so it can be proven to me that products won't be abandoned.

    I believe Wormguard could use some additional improvement and also PG. Anti-hook has closed the gap on PG and if given a few more months they might overtake where PG is now and they are CURRENTLY FREE. Also PG has a potential vulnerability that is just in the theoretical stage now but I long for the days when PG was being developed to take care of even the theoretical vulnerabilities.

    I know most people here at Wilders like Wayne and DCS but let's just say, I have detected a few grumblings about the TDS-4 decision (even though people understand why the decision was made) and the company might have to prove itself all over again with a certain segment of their customers.

    So, I will wait...If WG 4.0 makes the light of day then I will consider it. Right now, I am also considering a different direction too. The market place is much more full of alternatives than it has been in the past and I think DCS will probably learn a lesson in that it is better to under-promise and over-deliver then it is to do the opposite. The lenght of time waiting for TDS-4 caused me to find what I think is a very adequate replacement for TDS-4. If the promises on WG 4.0 don't come through, I will get a replacement for that idea also (If I determine I even need to protect against this threat....I might have adequate protection now)



    Starrob
     
  7. G1111

    G1111 Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Posts:
    2,127
    Location:
    USA
    I bought WormGuard recently and my version says 4.0
     

    Attached Files:

  8. richrf

    richrf Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
    Posts:
    1,907
    I suspect AntiHook's "free" business model will not support future competitive technical development against other HIPS products that are currently available and new ones that are coming on board, that have a revenue flow which can support competitive technical development. Free products such as AntiHook will probably always fill important niche markets - e.g for those who do not have substantial security needs, and are looking for free products that provide reasonable security. In many ways it is similar to the AV market where you have paid licensed products, such as KAV, which customers such as myself are willing to pay for, and products such as Avast and AVG, which are free, and are sufficient for other types of customers.

    Rich
     
  9. muf

    muf Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2003
    Posts:
    926
    Location:
    Manchester, England
    It's a glitch in the software. It's not really version 4. It just say so, but it's really version 3.

    muf
     
  10. G1111

    G1111 Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Posts:
    2,127
    Location:
    USA
    Oh well, I'll have to upgrade to 4.0 when it arrives.
     
  11. Infinity

    Infinity Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Posts:
    2,651
    Maybe you already have it...who knows? :D
     
  12. G1111

    G1111 Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Posts:
    2,127
    Location:
    USA
    Infinity - First time user so I don't know. If there was a Version 4 out now I assume the more experienced folks here would know about it. Anyhow I feel more confident with it on my system.
     
  13. Smokey

    Smokey Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2002
    Posts:
    1,513
    Location:
    Annie's Pub
    Wayne,

    You have promised us the same concerning TDS4....:rolleyes:
     
  14. snowbound

    snowbound Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Posts:
    8,723
    Location:
    The Big Smoke
    As muf said above, it is a glitch.

    I have had Wormguard for about 2 and half years now and it has always said version 4, which it isn't. ;)


    snowbound
     
  15. Wayne - DiamondCS

    Wayne - DiamondCS Security Expert

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Posts:
    1,533
    Location:
    Perth, Oz
    Smokey, that's a fair comment but remember that we're only discontinuing TDS, not WormGuard, and that one of the main reasons for the discontinuation is due to the nature of ongoing daily maintenance that was required for TDS. WormGuard is not a database-driven program nor does it require daily maintenance so it is not a burden in that sense like TDS was, and now that TDS development (which in itself is more than a fulltime job for one man) is off the To Do list we're free to resume development of our existing software, as well as new software, and even a new website.

    In other words, exciting times to come. :)
     
  16. richrf

    richrf Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
    Posts:
    1,907
    Hi Wayne et. al,

    WormGuard has been a very important aspect of my IPS defense, and I am very satisfied with the purchase.

    However, the filetype block list, it appears, is badly in need of some updates which I don't believe would take much time.

    Rmus (Rich) has been investigating various script defending programs and in the process has shared with me very helpful and valuable information. I am certainly no expert in this area, but I would say that someone should look into this area and provide some updates or additional "recommendations" concerning filetype block lists.

    Wayne, possibly you might want to private message Rmus as a starting point. I am sure all of the WormGuard users would greatly benefit from some of his suggested updates and such an effort would provide an immediate increase in security while consuming little time or resources.

    Regards,
    Rich
     
  17. tuatara

    tuatara Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2004
    Posts:
    772
    Wayne wrote:
    This is what i don't understand (this is not negative or an attack)

    Why is it that you don't find Wormguard in the Members Area ?
    And why is it not available for resellers ?
    Is there anyone who can inform me about this?


    Wayne also wrote:
    Ok, asume this means this year (DCS-PERTH time),
    'just around the corner' i can wait for that.

    I am working in this business for a very long time, and i would expect
    not to have a new Wormguard, but a complete new tool that would overlap
    WG. But if it still is called WG i think it is even better.

    That means no new license to pay.

    So still a happy customer (of all DCS) progs here.

    ;)
     
  18. Starrob

    Starrob Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2004
    Posts:
    493
    A interesting question is whether the people that were promised a upgrade from WormGuard 3.0 to WG 4.0 will ever have that upgrade "promise" honored?

    I still have not determined whether I actually need WG but if I did determine I had a need I would not purchase WG 3.0 because there is now no clearcut upgrade policy for any of these products.

    No matter what anyone thinks positive or negative about TDS discontinuation, it has all of the appearances of not being well planned or thought out. If it were well thought out, there would probably be less grumbling from people.



    Starrob
     
  19. Wayne - DiamondCS

    Wayne - DiamondCS Security Expert

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Posts:
    1,533
    Location:
    Perth, Oz
    Starrob,
    You can't assume that whatever happens with TDS will happen with all our other software. TDS as I explained previously is not a conventional program, it is the only program we had that requires 24/7 maintenance and nearly cost more than it made, and because of that it started affecting other programs which is unacceptable for customers of those programs, as well as customers who're looking for us to evolve and develop new software.

    Unfortunately there will always be unhappy people whenever a program or product is discontinued, regardless of how the discontinuation is planned. You can't please everyone, and taking away a program they like is always going to upset some people regardless of the situation, but having a few people unhappy in the short term is a small price to pay for having a lot of people very happy for the long term - this decision was made with the future in mind, as we're here to provide security software for the long run, not just today. To people who don't understand or are critical of the decision today I ask patience as it will soon make sense, and make sense for years and decades to come as we're able to release programs that we wouldn't otherwise have been able to even start development on if we were tied down with TDS - we wouldn't have made this decision if it wasn't in the best interests of our customers.

    Best regards,
    Wayne
     
  20. Rilla927

    Rilla927 Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Posts:
    1,710
    Hi Wayne,

    since you guy's mentioned TDS-3 being discontinued, can you tell me when this will happen? Because I just purchased it two months ago. I really like DCS Products. That's understandable that these things happen sometimes, like you said it's better to have some people that aren't happy, rather than everyone unhappy. I will still continue to support DCS Products, I don't have a problem with that. People are going to have to purchase another product, simple as that! You can't make everyone happy!

    Rilla927
     
  21. Starrob

    Starrob Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2004
    Posts:
    493
    This question still has not been answered:

    A interesting question is whether the people that were promised a upgrade from WormGuard 3.0 to WG 4.0 will ever have that upgrade "promise" honored?
     
  22. Vikorr

    Vikorr Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2005
    Posts:
    662
    ? I'm a little curious about your question Starrob.

    A free upgrade is part of the licence agreement isn't it ? If so, then the question you are really asking is 'will wormguard 4 actually happen?'

    The answer to that is not a matter of policy, it's a matter of economics (customer good will/reputation is involved in the economics factoring of course). I do certainly hope a new version comes out soon <mostly because I like new improved versions rather than any apparent need for a new engine yet>
     
  23. Starrob

    Starrob Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2004
    Posts:
    493
    I HATE politician's and I hate POLITICIAN type answers. You know how politicians are you ask them a question and they give long evasive answers that don't really answer the question....or give answers that sidetrack the issues.

    This is a question that could be answered simply: yes, no, or we have not thought about that yet.

    Well, look at my question and the response I get. TDS-3 getting dissolved does not bother me in the least. I already had considered one AT better. TDS-3 is not the issue. The issue is whether Wormguard 3.0 users get upgrades to WG 4.0?

    I suspect this has not been thought out which is why I get "politician" answers.

    I hope future products get rid of "politician" type marketing and give solid documentation of what the product does and does not do. This is my biggest desire in the "New features" in all of the products.


    Starrob


     
  24. FanJ

    FanJ Guest

    Hi Starrob,

    With all due respect please allow me a little remark (although I'm not quite sure whether I understand you right; sorry in case I didn't):

    I've hardly seen any home-users program coming with such an extensive Helpfile as TDS-3 did have !!!!!

    And I have never seen any home-users program coming with an Architecture and Process Flow like WormGuard has in its Helpfile.

    I'm really sorry, but in case you were suggesting that the documentation for those two programs (for example) were not good, then I have to completely disagree.
    Besides of that, did you notice all the help that lots of people were and are giving each other?
    Were all those postings and collected sticky threads useless?

    ::sigh::

    Regards, Jan.
     
  25. Starrob

    Starrob Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2004
    Posts:
    493

    No, I am sorry. I think most of my disappointment in documentation was with PG but then again with PG, it was a very new product doing things that have never been done before and I guess over time the documentation would have been better.

    I think my main frustration with DCS has been that there were a few times in the past that I have asked questions to DCS and I recieved evasive answers. Don't ask what the questions were because I can't remember but I do remember that it was like pulling teeth to get a answer out of Wayne/Gavin, where I have found other developers answer my questions much more freely.

    It maybe a thing of style. When I ask a question, I prefer a Yes, No, or a reason why the question can't be answered. I hate long answers that read like a advertisement. Don't ask me why but those type of answers drive me up the wall....I guess it is because of the way, I shop. When I shop, I have a few things that I want in a product...If the product delivers those things then I buy. If it doesn't then I won't buy....and I especially won't buy when I get approached by the annoying salesperson asking me if they can help....I just don't like advertising or the perception of being marketed to.

    Now, I will surprise some people by making a apology to Wayne. I sometimes use these boards as entertainment. There are some times in my real life that not all goes well and I sometimes take it out on people. By the way...I think this applies to most people on this board. I see how people make crazy comments to each other...arguing over things that really don't make that big a difference in the real world. There are some that really take all of this too seriously. Life and death is serious. The stuff that I seen concerning the war in Iraq is serious (I have been closer to the situation in Iraq than I can say), the stuff going on in London is serious....but some of the petty arguments that go on almost all forums...well...I can't take it too seriously.

    The situation with DCS was a convenient target of some frustrations I was experiencing in my personal life.

    Some of what I initially said to Wayne in the TDS forum does apply though. I knew from the start that he had a PR problem from the way the whole situation was handled. I should have just said my peace (or is it piece?) and moved on but I feel that I might have piled on a bit too much because I really don't have a beef with Wayne (with the exception of I don't like hearing marketing messages when I ask questions...LOL)

    So, I apologize for piling on a situation in which I am almost certain that he feels bad. I also feel bad for the customers of DCS. So many years of good feelings about the company gone in a instant.

    I just hope that DCS can find a way to making their customers feel whole again. I hope they learned lessons and I also hope other vendors learn lessons on how to do business with the public from this incident.



    Starrob
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.