Why use File-based BKUP if also doing Image-BKUP?

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by MAR, Sep 12, 2005.

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  1. MAR

    MAR Registered Member

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    If I am going to be making images using TI8 on a regular basis , why would I also want to use a file based backup? It appears that I can mount the image and recover files and folders as well as restore the entire partion(s). What advantage would using a file based backup software provide?

    I understand that file based programs have include/exclude selection to customize what gets backup. But if I am already creting images I already have ALL the data, or at least all the data thats in the partion.

    I will admit that TI8 could do a better job of house keeping and logging the backup in non secure zones. It should delete incremental files in non secure zones when a new full backup is made. TI8 could use a little more work in its ability to manage rotating backup concepts.
     
  2. feverfive

    feverfive Registered Member

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    Good question. For me, I still do manual backups of certain files b/c I've had past issues w/ being able to mount a stored Acronis image. I've also had a few "corrupt" images as well. Better to be safe than sorry when it comes to "important" files.....
     
  3. MAR

    MAR Registered Member

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    You have a good point in that if something goes wrong with the TI image backups than I have nothing. So I think I will explore getting some file based backup as well. I would use file based to do only the mydocs and other assoicated email, registry storage. I don't think that I will try to use a file based tool for entire system backup and restore. While some claim to be able to do that I think TI is a better tool. Any recommnedations for file based tool?

    In addition the acronis TI tool really has poor (ie none) achieve ability from the scheduler. I suspect that a file based backup tool may have better support for retaining multiple past versions.

    For example using TI alone with the scheduler I can not figure out how to make full monthly backups and not have them walk on top of each other.
    I could do scheduled one-time having each month go to a new files but thats to much data and I think the one-times dont roll over from year to year.

    I was hoping to make one full backup each month and append an incremental each week. I was hoping to retain the previous months bkup set while creating the current months and roll the entire process every other month. Doesn't seem like you can do that without external intervention using TI. Does any one have a schedule that makes sense using TI? PS- I have a 2nd 80G HD dedicated to store the bkup images for the main 1st 80G.

    Also what happens if I select the option to make the backup when the computer is restarted under the condition in which the computer was off during the scheduled backup time? Lets assume that the computer was not turned on for a while and it thinks it needs to make a FULL monthly and a weekly INCREMENTAL,o_O Seems like things might get messed up if TI tries to create both at the same time. Unless TI handles this properly by default I don't think that incremental backups can be made automatically using the scheduler if the full versions they are assoicated with are also created by the scheduler.
     
  4. feverfive

    feverfive Registered Member

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    Truth be told, I don't use any file backup program; I just backup (copy to another location) manually (I'm not talking about a "large" number/volume of files here). I even turn off task scheduler & other MS services, so I don't even use XP restore points. That's just a decision on my part to slim down my running XP Pro services (I should also say I'm a home user, so me needs/wants are probably different from many). At a minimum, I create new full backup images w/ TI8 twice weekly, along w/ manual backup of files to an external hard drive. I also DO NOT use TI8's Secure Zone (too many isues I've read about), and automatic incremental TI8 backups have never interested me either. Again, that's just the way I've chosen my backup process. To each his/her own. Sorry I can't help regarding a file backup utility...
     
  5. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Hello MAR,

    Have you tried the one that comes free with Windows XP (Start>Programs>Accessories>System Tools>Backup)? You may have to install it from your Windows XP Installation CD (you'll find the installer file NTBACKUP.MSI in the VALUEADD\MSFT\NTBACKUP folder).

    Regards
     
  6. MAR

    MAR Registered Member

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    No I have not tried the built in XP backup, at least not yet. I have XP Pro and just recently found out about the built-in file backup tool. Given the fact that I have 3 machines to support and all have XP Pro, the included version maybe the most cost effective way to go. However at the same time I have read that some have had problems with it, unstable, not recoverable etc. But seems like some one has had problems with everything out there at one time or another. (Ps. XP home doesnt have it by default but it can be added/turned on in home also)

    I have started to come across reviews/articles that claim much of the personal data is not stored in myDoc folder. As we all know (or at least could guess) many programs store data in other directories which maybe some what obscure. Mail folder/Outlook etc are common examples that are held up. The argument is that without a complete back-up you can not capture all the true personal data. The argument is also made that it would be difficult, or at least very time consumming to spec the location of all this data in an effort to manually point to it when doing backups other than full.

    So to fill this nitch a couple of user friendly tools are held up which are suppose to allow the user to capture all this personal data in obscure locations without having to do full backups. The two tools which I have seen talked about that have the ability to seek out personal data are Argentum Backup(www.argentum.com) and Genie Backup Manger(www.genie-soft.com). Interestingly both use zip as compression and thus claim simple non-propritary recovery and explore of backup. argentum is very simple strip down tool which claims to excel at finding this data. Genie is more of a full blown backup tool that just happens to include the seek-out feature.
     
  7. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello MAR,

    Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software.

    I'm afraid that I'm not eligible to provide you with the information concerning any other backup software then Acronis.

    Please also note that the file backup feature will most likely be implemented in the next version of Acronis True Image which is planned to be released till the end of this year, but exact time frame for this is not decided yet.

    As for your question on how to create full backup monthly and do not overwrite the previous one, I would like to say that you can schedule 4 different tasks to achieve your goals:

    1. Task for the full image creation on every 8 weeks with file name first_month.tib, for example, and starting from this month;

    2. Task for the corresponding incremental images creation on weekly basis;

    3. Task for the full image creation on every 8 weeks with file name second_month.tib, for example, and starting from the next month;

    4. Task for the corresponding incremental images creation on weekly basis.

    As a result you will always have 2 full images and 8 corresponding weekly incrementals for last two months. Actually, it will be not exactly monthly backup, since month is not equivalent to 4 weeks. However, it is much better then create a new tasks each time.

    Please note that it is not the only scheme possible. I would recommend you make some experiments with the scheduler in order to find the most convenient backup scenario.

    Thank you.
    --
    Alexey Popov
     
  8. MAR

    MAR Registered Member

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    Hi Acronis Support...
    First... Let me say that I am VERY impressed with the fact that Acronis interacts with its customers via this open forum. It's a huge selling point at least from a support point of view. Thanks Acronis...

    Next... Great to hear that file-based backup is forth coming. Is that going to be in TI or a seperate product? If built into TI, I assume that TI will support both image AND/OR file-based modes.

    And last... I will try the schedule ideas you suggest. I didn't realize that I could do every 8th week starting with alternate months. However one question still remains. What happens if the computer is left off and when next turned back on, the scheduler is over due to make a full monthly AND weekly incremental? Do the two task get executed in the correct order in the sense that every thing works as expected?
     
  9. Vanguard

    Vanguard Registered Member

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    The Veritas-derived backup program included in NT-based versions of Windows will support storing its backup file to fixed drives and tape drives. That leaves out backing up to removable media, like CD-R, DVD-R, Zip, etc. I'm not sure if it even supports mapped drives (i.e., network drives) or USB-connected external hard drives or memory pens (i.e., thumb drives). So unless you want to use NT Backup to save its backups to hard drive or tape, you'll have to find another solution for logical file backups.

    The full non-crippled version of Veritas Desktop Backup, which is now owned by Stomp Inc. and renamed to Backup MyPC, supports more media types on which it will save the backups.

    http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=315255
     
  10. MPSAN

    MPSAN Registered Member

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    So, will this be an update or a whole new version like TI9? I suppose TI8>>TI9 will co$t?

     
  11. MAR

    MAR Registered Member

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    Dear Acronis... I played with schedule you outlined in you last reply. I can not figure out how I am suppose to tell the schedule tool to start the 8week intervals on "this month" and "next month"? Or are you suggesting that I have to physical wait one full month before designing the schedule for the "next month". I hope thats not the case. Even if that was true, the schedule program would have to know what the desired starting point is and it would seem like I should be able to edit that directly in the schedule tool menu. Don't see how to do that.

    Regards.
     
  12. MAR

    MAR Registered Member

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    Thanks Vanguard... In my research I came across reviews of Stomp's Backup MyPC and thus knew that this was an enhanced Veritas. Saw some good reviews and some bad. I did not realize that Ntbackup.exe (xp backup) was a strip-down version of Veritas. I played a little with xp backup and I think I can get what I need from it. Assuming I am content with a simple myDocs backup. Without spending a lot of time to customize the file selection in Ntbackup I suspect that it will miss a lot of personal data which some of the other tools might get by default. I am not sure but I don't think that even the full version of Backup MyPC will auto mine all the personal data like other programs mentioned prior. But xp backup is free so I will start with that combined with TI. I just need to get TI to schedule rolling backups. To be honest I have had my fill of the whole backup issue. Finding a good backup solution which includes hardware/software/schedule is like hunting for the Holy Grail. Good luck finding it! My problem is that I don't buy into the "Doing something is better than nothing" concept when it comes to backup. I suspect that making use of a poorly implimented backup maybe more of a problem later than of any real value.
     
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