Why Isn't Avira on US Store Shelves?

Discussion in 'other anti-virus software' started by Hangetsu, Dec 19, 2007.

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  1. Hangetsu

    Hangetsu Registered Member

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    I tried Googling information on why Avira isn't on US store shelves (most AVs on these forums, even the smaller ones, are). Since I have the open machine (for now) to try stuff out, I'm thinking of giving it a go.

    However, would I want to replace all of my machines with Avira? I don't like relying on a website and a smile, if you know what I mean.
     
  2. Diver

    Diver Registered Member

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    What's wrong with a smile?
     
  3. scirious

    scirious Registered Member

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    I've bought it through it's website without a problem.
     
  4. Tadoussac

    Tadoussac Registered Member

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    Here's 3 reasons why a lot of great software isn't available on retail shelves:

    (1) Boxed software COSTS a lot MORE to produce (CD / Box / Freight / and Labor to assemble it all).

    (2) Big retailers have the power to squeeze the software producer, and take the lion's share of the profits. Software engineers don't like to see their hard work treated like a commodity. Selling direct to the consumer by-passes this problem.

    (3) As broadband access expands, it's just faster and more convenient to download and install.
     
  5. Hangetsu

    Hangetsu Registered Member

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    I'm sure the website works great, I just prefer buying from brick and mortar stores, or at least through known online vendors.

    Kaspersky? Available in stores.
    NOD32? Available via Amazon.
    Norton? Checkpoint? Etc etc...

    The fact that I can't get a copy on even Amazon.com just makes me worry a little bit.
     
  6. Hangetsu

    Hangetsu Registered Member

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    That does explain the "boxed product" concerns to some extent, thank you. I don't necessarily agree that they should avoid making boxed copies, but that's just opinion.

    That wouldn't explain the lack of availability on online retailers like Amazon.com or Newegg.com though -- Why wouldn't they sell through there?

    FYI -- I'm not in any way saying Avira is not legit. Besides the feedback here, they've been reviewed and researched by a number of trade mags, AV testing sites, etc. I'm just surprised its not marketed through these channels is all.
     
  7. Tadoussac

    Tadoussac Registered Member

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    My point #2 addresses this issue. Amazon and newegg are wonderful online stores, but they do take their slice of the pie - and not every software vendor wishes to play that game.

    I think that the trend to online downloading will continue to grow. Once the consumer is comfortable with the download business model (instead of the box), what value does an online retailer actually add to the process? They take profit OUT of the system, but what additional benefit do you actually receive as a consumer?
     
  8. midway40

    midway40 Registered Member

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    Except for games, most of my software purchases are downloaded. I even bought Office 2007 Home and Student online and downloaded it. A couple of years ago I purchased Avira the same way with no problems.
     
  9. tansco

    tansco Registered Member

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    Hi,

    We are starting discussions with US retail establishments about boxed product on the shelf. Earleir comments about cost etc are very valid, but we do appreciate this is something we need to do.

    When purchasing online you can opt to have a backup CD shipped to you if required.

    If you need any assistance then please contact me.

    Tony Anscombe
    Avira
    tony.anscombe@avira.com
     
  10. ChrisBUK

    ChrisBUK Registered Member

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    Here in the UK they do sell it on Amazon;
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Avira-AntiV...sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1198151632&sr=8-1

    I just checked on the US version of Amazon and it is not there, however, I did find a "I love AVIRA" mug and tea-shirt.
    Why don't you treat yourself for christmas? :D

    http://www.amazon.com/DAS-I-Love-Av...2?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1198151533&sr=8-3
    http://www.amazon.com/Love-Avira-Sw...56852?ie=UTF8&s=apparel&qid=1198151533&sr=8-4

    I'm sure you will have no problems with ordering from their website, but you are right, it would be good to see it on the shelves in some shops and I am sure it would make a big difference to sales -- I know a lot of people who just don't buy software over the internet and would rather buy it in a shop.
     
  11. trjam

    trjam Registered Member

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    :thumb: I think it would be a great idea to sell it here in the states.
     
  12. dNor

    dNor Registered Member

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    Personally I think it'd be great if more vendors utilized store shelf space and if the stores were more accomodating for them.

    Having nothing but Norton, McAfee, and Kaspersky at best on every store shelf I see isn't necessarily bad, but more of a choice could potentially lead consumers to spend more time researching and educating themselves prior to making security decisions, instead of just buying whatever shiny box happens to have shelf space at Wal-mart.

    Unfortunately not all vendors are capable or willing to spend the funds and time trying to compete with the big American shelf vendors.
     
  13. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    Seems to me it's just easier to download it online. I'd much prefer purchasing online. And so what if you get a nice CD in a box on the shelf? In a month it will most likely be outdated and useless anyway. And then there is all the materials wasted on the pretty box etc.. I'll stick with online any day....
     
  14. ccsito

    ccsito Registered Member

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    Many programs are already outdated on store shelves (especially security related ones). While it is nice to see a box and to read a manual, a large portion of software produced now don't require all of the excess bundling. If they should replace the CD drive in a PC with something else, the shelves in technology stores are going to look empty pretty fast.;)
     
  15. Mele20

    Mele20 Former Poster

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    None of us are average users. Average users don't frequent forums like this. If they live in the USA, they have heard of Norton and McAfee mostly as they probably got one or the other on their new computer and they have seen these two for years in Wal-Mart, Office Max, etc. Recently, they may see Trend Micro and Kaspersky. I saw Kaspersky for the first time here in Hawaii in Office-Max about six months ago.

    The average user is going to buy what they had on their computer when they bought it, or what their neighbor has, or what a clerk in a store recommends. NOD32 and Avira are unknown in the USA in the retail store market. TrendMicro is known now partly because Dell puts it on some new computers and it is also seen now boxed in retail stores. Avira has to go the boxed route and the OEM route to get exposure in other parts of world, besides Europe, among average users and retail store clerks whose advice is asked by average users. It was interesting when I asked a clerk about antivirus in Office Max recently just to see what he would say. He actually recommended Kaspersky. I asked about NOD32 and Avira and he had never heard of either. NOD32 has offices in the USA but it still is not widely known and Avira...well, gee the USA distributer is some small company I have never heard of in Florida whose website is entirely behind Flash and I don't have Flash Player. Retail boxing for the USA market may be expensive but it is essential for getting the product known to average users. What would be even better though for Avira would be to partner with Dell or HP, etc. to put Avira on new OEM computers. Dell told me a couple of years ago that the reason they can't do that with Kaspersky is something to with international trade laws so I don't know if that is possible. Avira needs offices in the USA with a USA website.
     
  16. ccsito

    ccsito Registered Member

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    Looks like a lot of people who work in computer stores don't go online very much. :rolleyes: :eek: :p :blink: :gack:
     
  17. DIgiDis

    DIgiDis Registered Member

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    My fear would be that all the extra costs to develop a marketing strategy based on OLD ECONOMY distribution methods would ultimately result in a hefty price increase. Here are some valid reasons not to pursue that road:

    1. Distribution channels eat a lot of profit margin. Packaging, transport, insurance, customs, then finally the competition for retail space.

    2. One should understand how retail space is sold. Retailers dedicate more space to those products that make them more profit margin. There is a nasty war to get shelf space in retail.

    3.Then once shelf space is finally achieved, there is the competition with the other products, which is usually based on brand strength and price and not quality. Norton has a great advantage here so competing products are going to have to be cheaper than Norton. Lesser known products carry a high FUD factor and have to be really cheap to compete. Proof of this are the rediculous prices for Kaspersky.

    There are probably many more reasons but I'll stop there with the most important.

    A wiser investment would be to garner more positive online presence and awareness in non techy environments. Consumer review sites, PC review sites oriented toward average consumers, blogs, that sort of stuff. Then the most important way is to have a satisfied clientele that actively recommends the product, resulting in viral marketing.
     
  18. C.S.J

    C.S.J Massive Poster

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    this forum is biased!
    i dont see any point at all having AV on the shelves.

    other than an increase in customer revenue, it just seems a whole lot of work for nothing, its certainly not cost effective for an old version of the software.
     
  19. tiagozt

    tiagozt Registered Member

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    Here in Brazil we only see Mcafee, NOD32 and Symantec in "in BOX" version for sale in commerce. Rarely we see Panda, AVG and Trendmicro...
    Avira needs a brazilian portuguese version to get more market share here. Kaspersky improved market compaign here and now many websites have the AV for sale. Other AVs are losing space to Kaspersky, F-Secure and other AVs with brazilian portuguese language.
    Avira needs to improve with portuguese, spanish, russian and other language.
    I don't think a box is important but for marketing reasons I think it is.
     
  20. Hangetsu

    Hangetsu Registered Member

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    Is a "box" important? Not necessarily. However, as already mentioned it is a requirement to truly expand in the marketplace. OLD ECONOMY or not, the vast majority of people still shop in brick and mortar stores. More customers = more revenue, and more revenue can = more R&D dollars. This is why as good as some free AVs are, unless their primary business generates revenue (like an Avira), I won't touch it personally. Purely a personal preference.

    Having a product on a store shelf also lends credence to a software application. Face facts: With most people telling the Average Joe to avoid phishing attacks, being careful with their credit card online, online stores getting hacked and their credit card DBs stolen.... Hell, I won't just give a credit card to anyone online either. Most of my shopping is done via Amazon or NewEgg, as they are known, reliable entities.

    Its a serious question: If you can't field a boxed product, how well managed / financed of an organization are you? Vendor X can have an awesome AV, but for all I know its run out of the creator's parent's basement :D

    Not having a boxed product in a store doesn't mean a product is bad. However, another viewpoint is that said vendor may have not been able to convince the Best Buys and Amazon.coms of the world that their product is worth carrying... And if they can't do that, why should I buy it?
     
  21. Tadoussac

    Tadoussac Registered Member

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    Fascinating thread .....

    Software, Music, Movies .. share a common characteristic. They are all digital content; and whether we like it or not - the future distribution model for digital content is via broadband networks; not packed inside cardboard boxes.

    The MP3 revolutionized the old music business model - and the landscape is littered with the remains of now failed brick and mortar record stores. If you feel more comfortable buying your CD's at a brick and mortar store, I urge you to hurry and start shopping before they vanish.

    Blockbuster closed thousands of Mom & Pop video stores, and then Netflix came along with a hybrid online-boxed DVD model that exists without a brick and mortar store. Use your own imagination - and guess where this industry is going next. (The game console market - PS / Nintendo etc. is heading in the same direction.)

    Once upon a time, we trusted those sellers who offered a physical presence in the form of a "store" at the local mall. (GeeWhiz - they have a "building", so they must be a solid business). Along came amazon, newegg, google, zappos, travelocity ... and the trust model paradigm was permanently changed.

    The online vendors, the credit card issuers, and the banks are investing BILLIONS to continue to add security and reliability to the online business models (and of course, there will always be some element of risk). I think this is an unstoppable trend.

    Boxes ? Boxes are for shipping vegetables ....
     
  22. Hangetsu

    Hangetsu Registered Member

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    You're focusing more on the cardboard box than the store model itself. While MP3s changed how music is bought, where do people buy them? Do they go to the individual musicians themselves? To the labels? No, they buy them from Amazon, from iTunes, etc -- Known entities which have a level of trust behind them. With AV, ask the big players like Symantec, McAfee, Kaspersky, etc. where the majority of their sales come from: I would bet it is from packaged product sold via brick and mortar or online stores, not from their individual websites (or from pre-installed software).

    Its a question of capabilities: The cardboard box isn't as important as the ability of the vendor to properly market and sell their product. I have less faith in a company that can't sell beyond their website than one that can offer their product via a variety of retailers. That doesn't have to be physical product, but downloads as well (Amazon, Best Buy, etc. offer this capability).

    Just to point out once again: This isn't to beat up Avira; Its been primarily a European product, and they are available via Amazon.co.uk, for example. However, for the majority of the consumers in the US, they are an unknown and would not be a selected vendor because of the lack of availability outside of their own website.
     
  23. Hangetsu

    Hangetsu Registered Member

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    On a side note, I personally do buy software online -- I use NOD32 for example. However, I would love for effective AVs like NOD32 and Avira to start getting more market share in the US; More money means more research means even better products. Side benefit being more people are well protected.

    I am enjoying this conversation though!
     
  24. DIgiDis

    DIgiDis Registered Member

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    I too wouldn't mind seeing Antivir on the shelves of every retail store either. But I will not pay more than €20 for that boxed version or the online version. Honestly, the only reason I am using Antivir instead of my old favorite NOD32 is it costs half and provides at least an equal amount of protection.

    Let's think about the value of having Antivir on the shelves of Walmart and the like. With antivirus software what is the first thing that 99% of new customers do? Go online to get product updates and new definitions. Seems like a waste of paper, plastic and millions in marketing costs already.

    Forgetting that for the moment, when Antivir will be on the shelf next to Norton, Zonealarm, McAfee and every other competitor looking to dominate the market, what is going to be the typical reaction of the typical Walmart customer? Compare prices and brand dominance. Can the relatively unknown Avira really go head to head with Norton and McAfee in a retail oriented battle? Can you really tell that Avira is better by reading a box?

    How can you do a trial of an antivirus program from a Walmart to see if it is compatible with your system if first you have to buy it and then later learn that software in non-returnable? Sounds like first one would go to the vendor's website, download the trial and go from there. Once they did the trial and already have the software installed on their computer are they really going to get in their car and go to the local Walmart or are they just going to go online and get a license the easy way?

    Realistically, I don't see how having a retail presence will justify the costs of that massive investment, especially given the entrenched postions of the long standing competitors. There are many more effective ways to get a higher "share of mind" without retail. Hopefully Avira's marketing team knows this; if not I can guarantee you that the future price of Antivir will have to cover the costs of a very expensive mistake.
     
  25. Mele20

    Mele20 Former Poster

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    You are not thinking like the average user. They don't do any of the things you talk about and would never dream of doing so. They go to a store ( a real store) and buy an AV...that is if they actually understand that the AV that came installed on their Wal-Mart Dell computer stops working after three months. Most of them don't understand that nor do they understand that they have to update the definitions regularly. For those who do understand these things, they probably still don't have any idea about a trial. What is that? How would I get it and do this trial? Isn't it just supposed to work? What do you mean some antivirus work better than others and some work better on one computer than another? Huh? Can't I just go in Wal-Mart or Office Max or Staples and buy whatever the clerk recommends and has a good price? I just want an AV...I don't want to know all this stuff you are confusing me with. :D
     
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