Why do people love new and crash prone more than old and stable?

Discussion in 'polls' started by mattdocs12345, Apr 18, 2014.

?

Do you like new and crash prone or old and stable?

  1. I like new and shiny, I don't mind the bugs. I eat them for breakfast.

    3 vote(s)
    8.1%
  2. I like new and shiny with no bugs. I don't mind my 2014 computer running like its 1997.

    2 vote(s)
    5.4%
  3. I stay with the new because I want the latest security updates. I dont mind new exploits.

    10 vote(s)
    27.0%
  4. I prefer older software that is faster, more responsive and more stable.

    19 vote(s)
    51.4%
  5. I don't know what I want.

    3 vote(s)
    8.1%
  1. mattdocs12345

    mattdocs12345 Registered Member

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    The Firefox gets a new release every month. More useless features instead of stability/speed updates... That browser is still ages beyond Chrome when it comes to speed. Surprisingly Chrome pulls it off better. But I am not a Chrome user so I don't know how stable they are and/or if new bugs/features made it slower or not.

    Other paid software loves to update itself twice a year. Instead of patching their old software and making it stable and usable they come up with more features which introduces more bugs. And again more freezes/sluggishness. And for those who value security, new features = more possible bugs to exploit. So really how secure is the newest and the greatest?

    So I went the Linux route. Right, one would think that the Linux gurus would have more logical reasoning to choose stability/speed over anything else. Wrong. Well almost....

    I started with Ubuntu and Linux Mint. Both on 6 month release schedule. More features introduced with more bugs. My laptop would freeze/crash at least twice a week. So I went with Ubuntu LTS better but still more unresolved bugs... Windows 7 is hell of a lot more stable than Ubuntu LTS. Really a shame for the Ubuntu community and towards Linux community because this is the first distro that people usually try. Almost made me switch back to Windows because of all those issues.

    Well the good part is that once I went down Centos/Debian way 3 months ago, I got one time that Centos slowed down for me for 5 seconds before the application recovered itself almost instantly without any crash. Debian 2 months now and not a single slow down. Not a single crash. Not a single Freeze.
    Of course I am running Iceweasel 24.4.0 (FF derivative), Libre Office 3.5 and some other slightly older applications but all of them super fast and never crash on me. Not a single freeze or slow down.

    So why do people like eye candy over speed and stability?
     
  2. Gullible Jones

    Gullible Jones Registered Member

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    I think this is a false dichotomy.

    In any case, I've never met anyone who liked an OS for its eyecandy, so I honestly have no idea where the impetus for gliding 3D windows comes from...

    Edit: re stability issues, you might want to check the status of support for your hardware. Linux is known to crash dependably with some video cards for instance.
     
  3. moontan

    moontan Registered Member

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    i prefer new and stable. :rolleyes:
     
  4. Minimalist

    Minimalist Registered Member

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    I usually try new software to get new security updates and to check if there are any new functionalities that I might use. If update is giving me troubles (like Google Chrome v.32 update), I go back to old version until bugs are fixed or instal alternative software. If I don't like new version for whatever reason I stay with old one (like Secunia PSI v.2). When updating, I make different decisions for different software.

    hqsec
     
  5. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    I like to see what's new with each release, but yeah, most of the newer stuff is fairly buggy. I went down the same road, more or less, and there are only a couple of distros that I will even bother with anymore. When I want stable and fairly bug-free, I turn to Debian. Right now, I am dual booting Win 7 and Linux Mint Debian.. There will always be bugs.. it's mostly just a matter of degree, and how much you're willing to put up with.
     
  6. mattdocs12345

    mattdocs12345 Registered Member

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    I can't find anything that is new and stable. You mind giving some examples?
     
  7. guest

    guest Guest

    Lol, this fits very well with the development of XMedia Recode. New version fixes some bugs, while introducing new bugs, sometimes even more bugs than the previous versions. I myself have to find the most stable version to keep and when there's an update, I'll have to test it and it's not rare for the new software version to behaving wrong.

    But other than that one, the vulnerability --> update --> vulnerability --> update circle is never going to end. There's no way we can change that. Old vulnerabilities will be patched, which will introduce new vulnerabilities, I don't deny that. But attackers will need some more time to find a way to exploit new vulnerabilities.

    As for Firefox, it's already been a piece of crap since version 4. What can you expect from some liars who don't even know where the direction they are heading? :rolleyes:

    Chrome never crashed here, despite what some people say. MAME is even getting better and better. FastStone Image Viewer barely changed anything, but it's very stable. Macrium Reflect is running very well here. MPC-HC never gave me troubles even once. Need we say more? :cool:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2014
  8. moontan

    moontan Registered Member

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    yes, i do mind.

    it looks to me like you are trolling. :ninja:
     
  9. mattdocs12345

    mattdocs12345 Registered Member

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    Fair enough. You are entitled to your opinion.

    Thanks. I don't use Chrome Im trying to get used to it every now and then. Macrium reflect is great too but they also don't overload their software with new features every 6 weeks.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
  10. guest

    guest Guest

    The wonder of some AV software these days. :argh:
     
  11. Osaban

    Osaban Registered Member

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    Same here.
     
  12. ams963

    ams963 Registered Member

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  13. RJK3

    RJK3 Registered Member

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    Use Palemoon instead of Firefox, and you'll generally experience less bugs from my experience.

    I've installed various Linux distributions on many PCs and can't say I've ever had a problem free install before. I've always had to resort to the command console for one reason or another, or had UI crashes etc. Windows just works.
     
  14. mattdocs12345

    mattdocs12345 Registered Member

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    That was my experience with all distributions except for Centos and Debian stable.
     
  15. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    I have an image of Debian 7 from a few weeks back, and now when I restore it, it won't do the SSL updates (2) all of a sudden. I get a 404 server error as if it can't find the files, even though it comes up with the proper updates and so on. Very weird issue. I've tried it 3 times over the past week, so I'm at a loss as to what's wrong, but it looks like I'd need to do a complete reinstall from scratch to get it working again. Otherwise, Debian as been the most stable for me also..
     
  16. Keatah

    Keatah Registered Member

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    I personally prefer older software that I've gotten used to. Something that has been slow-cooked over time - a trend being followed less and less today. (didn't firefox at one time have daily updates?)

    I personally like to say that software which has to be patched daily or weekly is deeply flawed from the get-go. I mean, afterall, it is faulty. Right? All these mistakes.. bugs.. all this fixin'up stuff?

    As ridiculous as it may seem, I like older software on newer hardware. Older software tends to be less bloated in relation to the capability of the machine.

    And one must not forget that advertising makes us biased toward "new" regardless if it is better or not.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2014
  17. safeguy

    safeguy Registered Member

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    The poll options are biased in favor of older releases.

    Anyway, I don't see much of a problem. Each program and OS has its own release channels, release lifecycle and schedule. Choose whichever fits your needs.

    E.g.

    Chrome has Stable, Beta, Development and Canary.

    Firefox has official Release, Beta,
    Aurora and Nightly. If the official Release is still too "quick-paced" for your personal or organization needs, there's ESR channel.

    Debian has Stable, Testing and Unstable.

    Ubuntu has LTS and interim releases.

    Red Hat has RHEL (from which CentOS is derived) and Fedora.

    Software development is an ongoing process. There's room for both early adopters and those who require more stability/predictability.
     
  18. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    For sure newer is not always better. :)

    A couple of my examples:

    Sorry for this rant. :D
     
  19. mattdocs12345

    mattdocs12345 Registered Member

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    My apologies. I am biased and I did that poll in a hurry and a little out of rant.
    Ubuntu LTS doesn't even compare to Debian/RHEL Stable. That is my issue with Ubuntu. Their stable version is quite unstable.

    I agree. However my issue is what people call stable these days should be considered alpha or beta releases. Seems like a lot of software jumps from one beta version to another without giving enough time to develop it. A lot of times they patch only most important bugs instead of patching memory usage problems (Mozilla). Others don't even care about how much memory is being used (Microsoft Office)-- a careless coding?
     
  20. luciddream

    luciddream Registered Member

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    A misconception is that these new, shiny, less responsive ones are more secure to make it all worthwhile. It's not necessarily the case. More bloat = more attack surface. And newer/shinier = more targeted. Less surface + less targeting, in the hands of someone that can get the most out of it, can make the older, more responsive stuff more secure in the end as well. This of course only applies to about 1% of end users though and is not good advice to spread about. I say it in here among said 1%, but would never outside of here. Would even consider doing so irresponsible.
     
  21. Impet

    Impet Registered Member

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    I tried Firefox and Chrome, no differences in speed. :thumb: However, I prefer up-to-date software that is fast and stable.
     
  22. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    About post #18, I forget to mention Foxit Reader, I just found out that v2 is a lot quicker and smoother than v3. :)

    Especially on old PC´s it´s amazing to see the differences between old and new versions. I tried the newest version of Opera and it´s completely unusable compared to v12 with the Presto engine. It kinda sickens me, what are the developers thinking?
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
  23. Veeshush

    Veeshush Registered Member

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    It entirely depends on the software and hardware you're running it on. The only difference I've ever found with "Betas" are that the devs are less liability prone if something does go wrong- they're basically saying "this might be unstable, if it you do have issues report them to help us out". I've run beta-y stuff that has worked fine, I've ran older software that crashes. It just entirely depends.

    Look at the Heartbleed bug for example. Sites that stayed with v0.9.8. OpenSSL weren't affected by it. Yet, cause they're not on 1.0.1 OpenSSL, they're also loosing out on features like perfect forward secrecy, TLS v1.2 and TLS v1.1. etc. (in my understanding) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSSL#Major_version_releases

    From a security standpoint there's the idea that, like with Firefox, you may not experience the zero-days that could affect the most recent version. But I've also seen a lot of exploits that just affect practically every version, and they all end up having to be patched anyway.

    And then you have plugins, like Java/Flash in which you'd never want to be running older versions.

    So I'd say rather than looking at the version number to determine if it'll be stable, instead try to report any issues to the developers and pray that they'll get back to you.

    edit
    I'll note though that I'm also liking Debian and Iceweasel since using them on Tails and that I've also found both to be very stable so far. But I don't think all the reason is because they're using older versions.
     
  24. J_L

    J_L Registered Member

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    Features, features, features. If you get too old, compatibility. All other points are situational.
     
  25. Overkill

    Overkill Registered Member

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    It depends on the software, security I always update unless it has too many bugs, others I can deal with the stable versions regardless of age.
     
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