Why do background process keep running?

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by Linus, Oct 22, 2005.

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  1. Linus

    Linus Guest

    I read with interest the articles on the three background processes that Acronis starts automatically and keeps running in the background Specifically
    schedul2.exe
    schedhlp.exe
    TrueImageMonitor.exe

    Yes, I have read the cut and past explanation for these services throughout this forum. But what is still not answered is:

    Why is there NO OPTION to NOT START these services in the first place?

    They should only run IF they are needed for creating backups. I don't schedule my backups, so I don't need another scheduler. I should not have to KILL the process EVERYTIME Windows starts.

    I was going purchase a number of copies of TRUE Image for my SOHO and HOME PC usage (about 8 PC at last count) but will not do so because we cannot afford to have these backgound process running. Memory may not be a problem for you, but in video editing and intensive game playing by my son, a few KBs here and there really make a difference.

    When will there be an option to NOT run these unless a back up is in process and then to Shut down AUTOMATICALLY when Acronis True Image shuts down?

    Linus
     
  2. Crashpilot

    Crashpilot Registered Member

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    Hi Linus,

    I’m afraid if you are looking for a back up solution and don’t want to have background processes running you may have a hard time to find one.
    If you do, I would appreciate to find your information on this forum.

    Good luck

    Crashpilot
     
  3. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    Why don't you just set the service start mode to manual rather than automatic ?
     
  4. noonie

    noonie Registered Member

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    I too do video edit and certainly relate to running a clean lean machine. In fact to encode, I even go so far as to create another hardware configuration, disabling all unneeded hardware and software including setting the video card to vga basic. Encoding only requires minimal fast hardware. This all requires a reboot and hardware option at bootup.
    In order to have consistantly reliable images, I use the Ti bootcd and not Ti in Windows and save over a network, a little more time consuming, but a lot more reliable. In fact, I do not even have Ti installed on any machine.
    Works perfectly for me.
     
  5. upurz

    upurz Guest

    Do what I do.

    Remove TrueImageMonitor.exe and schedhlp.exe from your startup list using MSCONFIG or any other Startup Manager you use.

    Then run Services.msi using the RUN command box and set schedul2.exe to MANUAL (it is set to AUTOMATIC by default).

    So when you start your machine none of these programs will be running.

    Note that when you run TrueImage schedul2.exe will start up. This is OK and is needed. However, when you finally exit TI just kill the task using Task Manager.

    There is really no need to keep these things running all the time if you have no need of the services they provide. Unfortunately a lot of vendors start their programs when Windows starts. I guess they have to cater to the noobs out there. Lowest common denominator I suppose.
     
  6. sandokan

    sandokan Registered Member

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    Start > All Programs > Administrative Tools > Services (or type services.msc from the Run box), and then set those processes (that take no RAM as they are in virtual memory addresses, and no CPU cycles whatsoever) to Manual or, if you just want to use the boot CD, you could simply disable them. I would advice against it, since the virtual memory functionality in modern OSs take care of that, and when you see in task manager that each process is using x amount of RAM, what it means is that within a working set, those processes will consume that amount when in use, otherwise they are paged out and in stand by using no RAM nor cycles.
     
  7. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    This is true - though I think you mean advise (verb) rather than advice (noun). But I get your drift.
     
  8. mrtee

    mrtee Registered Member

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    Linus, those 3 services use very little in the way of resources.

    My computer has been running for 38:44:50 and those processes each have used 0:00:00 CPU time. My firewall has used 4:05:50 of CPU time, my AV has used 0:00:02 CPU time.

    Open Task Manager, add in some other columns and look at the numbers before before complaining.
     

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  9. gue_st

    gue_st Guest

    This is certainly not a question of numbers. If you think unnecessary services running in the background do anything good to your computer, that's fine.
    But others may think differently.
    Actually, this kind of programming (cluttering registry, running unnecessary processes) is the real reason why you need dedicated computer for video editing, audio production etc. Because they think that you certainly bought computer to run only their precious software. While this could be possibly understandable with software like Avid or Nuendo, it is certainly NOT the case with backup software, antivirus or firewall.

    Therefore, there is no reason to make uncompetent statements and insult others. Even if very popular now, running unnecessary processes remain BAD programming.
    Also, there certainly are cases wheb this "very little" can make all the difference.
     
  10. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    I don't agree that it is bad programming. The fact that these processes are running is largely because their service start mode has been set to start them at run time automatically. This configuration can be changed - and has nothing to do with the programming.

    I think you ought to realise that multitasking OS's were designed to run multiple tasks concurrently and cooperatively. This is why the architecture allows a thread to have a scheduling priority set. Windows is pretty good at doing what is was designed to so. If of course you don't require a multitasking system then don't use Windows and don't use Unix. Go and find some dedicated single task operating environment where you wont have to worry about other processes running in the background.
     
  11. gue_st

    gue_st Guest

    This has nothing to do with Windows multitasking.
    Maybe I was wrong in naming, maybe that is brainless developing, maybe just a bad style, but result is the same - you need a dedicated computer for serious tasks, and it is just because of this kind of programming, not Windows inability to multitask properly.
    If ou do not believe me, visit any music studio and see what happens there.

    The fact itself that Windows allows to ignore basics of developing (or good style, if you want), doesn't necessarily mean that everybody now should do so.
     
  12. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    No, Windows does exactly what it is supposed to. To allow multitasking/multiuser/multiprocessor computing. If this gets in the way of what you want, then don't use it. It is the wrong tool for your job.
    Perhaps you should explain what you consider the "basics" of developing and define what you mean by "good style".

    You remind me of someone using a knife as a screwdriver, and then complaining that the knife was rubbish because it wouldn't tighten a screw.
     
  13. gue_st

    gue_st Guest

    So, if you got multitasking, you feel urge to run as many useless tasks as possible, otherwise screwdriver feels like knife?

    Maybe you think "good style" is something like infinite error loop when one driver wouldn't load (boot disk)? By the way, that "good style" is explained in almost every programming book.
     
  14. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    Not an urge but a choice. It is a *good* thing.

    If you knew anything about programming you would realise that "good style" depends on what you are trying to achieve and is something which comes with experience, not from a book. This is why I asked you to define what you meant by "good style". It was your phrase not mine.

    Like I said if you don't like what Windows does, stop bitching about it and go and find something better. I can only imagine that you are trolling here with such strange views, so I do not intend to indulge you any longer.
     
  15. sandokan

    sandokan Registered Member

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    Ever heard of HT technology?

    To return to your main pet peeve about the "running Processes" that ATI will start by default (but can be opted out by the user), you must be aware that recently-accessed portions ("views") of recently-accessed files will be mapped into the virtual address space of the file cache. And the most recently accessed subset of those pages will be resident in RAM, i.e. paged in.
    So, if those processes are not being used, they are in virtual memory spaces, consuming nothing, however, they'll be ready to be paged in when/if they are needed. This is good programming and satisfies the needs of most users with relatively modern OSs.
     
  16. 666

    666 Guest

    I agree with the bad programming part. If every piece of software you have installed would keep unnecessary processes running 'because they get paged anyway' all this activity will degrade performance. The paging process itself uses processor cycles, usually right when you need your processor. Not much of a problem if you only need to dump a few unwanted Acronis services to disk, but if the other 100 programs you have installed follow the same line of reasoning it all adds up to a major waste of resources.

    It's like giving a dollar to a beggar out on the street. One dollar doesn't matter, but if you meet a hundred beggars every day...

    Then there's the psychological factor: I decide what runs on my computer and when, I'm not gonna let Acronis decide what's good for me. When I click that red X in the top right corner, I want the program to shut down and take all it's services with it.


    Here's a way to make TI behave: start TI from a batch file instead of from its default shortcut.

    Copy the text below into an empty text document, put it in your Acronis TI program folder, and call it something like Acronis.bat .

    START /B C:\Progra~1\Common~1\Acronis\Schedule2\schedhlp.exe
    CALL "C:\Program Files\Acronis TrueImage\TrueImage.exe"
    NET STOP "Acronis Scheduler2 Service"
    pskill.exe schedhlp.exe
    EXIT



    - check the batchfile, edit paths when necessary (drive letters. folder names)
    - close the 3 processes (TrueImageMonitor.exe, schedul2.exe, schedhlp.exe) from the task manager
    - run the batchfile and make a disk image. if this works:
    - open the services control panel (type 'services.msc' into start/run) and set Acronis Scheduler2 Service to 'manual'
    - delete the Acronis TI startup items from the registry (location: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run)


    - Right-click the .bat file, click 'create shortcut', and put the shortcut in your start menu, desktop, quicklaunch bar or wherever you want it.
    - optional: right-click this shortcut and change the icon, e.g. use the icon in TrueImage.exe

    If you don't have pskill.exe (Win2000, XP Home), you have to download a copy of pskill.exe and either put it in the same folder as the batch file, or edit the file to make it point to whatever location pskill.exe is in.
     
  17. gue_st

    gue_st Guest

    I am of course fascinated by those who truly believe that something "consumes nothing", or throwing arguments like "if you knew anything".

    Tere certainly are people who will keep their truck fully loaded. When need to transport something, they will happily unload something to free space. Call that a good style. :D
     
  18. Linus

    Linus Guest

    I guess somewhere along the line of "programming style" and workarounds offered, and "nothing is being used...." the true complaint was lost.

    All I am looking for is an imaging back up program I can run on demand to back up specific partions. When I'm done, I expect the program to quit nicely, not leaving any memory leaks, and to cleanly remove itself from the system.

    As a user/installer *I* should not have to resort to workaround batch jobs, or bringing up Task Manager to clean up after the program. It is not a dog that I should have to carry a pooper scooper around after.

    The product is good, seems to do a reasonable job for what my requirements are, but I refuse to buy, or recommend, a program that doesn't give me the OPTION of specifying this type of behaviour at install, or at a minium, at a configuration screen.

    If this is so easy to do in the workarounds, why isn't it available as a standard part of the product. From the number of times the support people have referenced the article about the processes running in the background you would think that the light would have gone off by now.

    There is a significant group of buyers who are requesting this functionality.
    People are not recommending this software because of this lack of
    functionality.

    Think how much more revenue could be made, how much less support would be required, if one day of programming time were spent on implementing this
    functionality.
     
  19. Oremina

    Oremina Registered Member

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    I know that the technology is older and possibly less sophisticated but I have a backup program here that I have been using for almost three years. It may be old-fashioned because it "drops to dos" to do its work, but nothing (nothing) runs in the background before/after. It has worked flawlessly for me for all this time and as far as I am aware has never dropped or corrupted a file.

    Sadly, the day is coming when I will have to let it go because it doesn't support USB2 backups to an external HDD. That is the reason I have been watching all these threads on this forum concerning True Image and have been just a smidgin disappointed with what I have read. As soon as it appears that TI9 is ready for its paying customers, I will purchase it. But that doesn't appear to be any time soon, and yes, whether its sensible or not I'm also of the school that can't abide to see unnecessary processes running.
     
  20. MKairys

    MKairys Registered Member

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    Perhaps I shouldn't mix into this discussion but I've got this 2 cents burning a hole in my... in my... well, never mind.

    It seems from my experience that you can have just what you want with TI. You don't need to run the scheduler and you don't need to run the monitor.

    You might say (I guess you are saying) that we should be given an options GUI allowing us to turn off the autostart of those processes; I say well maybe, but (1) there is a design choice to be made in giving out options; too much is confusing and intimidating and doesn't help sales any more than too little does, and (2) most programs I install, almost every program I install, put something in HKCU/.../Run that I subsequently go and remove. Adobe has AcroTray, MS Office has OSA, Roxio has a list, and don't get me started about OmniPage Pro.

    After I installed ATI and subsequently determined I wouldn't be using their scheduler I turned that one off; I ended up leaving the Monitor because I rather like it; and I don't know how else it would work, to be able to tell me any time a TI task was running, except by hanging around and looking for them.

    "Most users" won't be bothered by those programs hanging around because they cost so little, and probably would be bothered by being given the option of turning them off and having to think about it. For those of us who are bothered, we can edit the Registry or use Autoruns or Mike Lin's Startup thingy to do it for us.

    Okay, maybe that was 3 cents.
     
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