Who buys it?

Discussion in 'other anti-malware software' started by trjam, Jan 10, 2008.

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  1. trjam

    trjam Registered Member

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    Over the last year or so, I have seen so many different security products, discussed, developed, downloaded, and destroyed. I still am fearful of some, smarter because of some, and safer because of some. But that took me a year to totally understand what each type is, and how it is used, or not used, in conjunction with other software and does that product have pitfalls, or does it increase my security. And onnnnnnnnnnnn and onnnnnnnnnnnn it goes until your head EXPLODES.

    I have shown educated friends this site and they are dumb-founded by the enormous offerings in every area of computer security. Most cant understand my fixation on a site like this and most say they will never try anything like the function specific products listed. Most, really go by the C.S.J. theory of, a antivirus and operating system firewall or a suite that is well known. I get a totally dismayed look, when I name different security suites and where they come from.

    Where is this heading? Besides the members and visitors here, who actually buys this stuff at least in the realm of these good vendors making a profit to stay afloat. Most unfortunatly do take the reviews in publications as the gospel truth, so you want to have your product reviewed by one if you want it to sell. Ugh. Most only know what they see on the sheves at a retail store.

    How do you folks do it? Corporate sales or what. Because it isnt the average Mom and Pop next door. I feel for all of you because it is amazing what I have learned here and how it effects all aspects of pc security. I salute each of you and hope that all of you reap some type of reward for your efforts because I know it is hard.

    Who buys it? The answer is simple. Not enough!:thumb:
     
  2. Mele20

    Mele20 Former Poster

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    The corporate buyers are what keept Security vendors alive. Look at BoClean. It was not originally intended for home users. Take Avira. If you are a corporate user you get email, phone support, etc. that the home user doesn't get and it is understandable as the corporate users are Avira's bread and butter.
     
  3. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Also true of products like Shadowprotect, FDISR, etc.
     
  4. Hairy Coo

    Hairy Coo Registered Member

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    Not only are Mom and Pop not buying it-a lot of companies are not that keen to deal with Ma and Pa.

    Apart from the great bulk of sales and profits being achieved through corporate sales,the private buyer is notorious for being difficult,unreasonable,lacking knowledge,time consuming as regards support and being generally hard to deal with-apart from tending to use freeware instead of forking out a few bucks to keep the developer going,yet demanding absolute service.

    Of course none of this applies to Wilders members and especially not as regards my good self :D
     
  5. Diver

    Diver Registered Member

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    One should realize that only certain types of products that get a lot of attention around here are of little use to Corporate users. These would be anything that is too intrusive.
     
  6. Hermescomputers

    Hermescomputers Registered Member

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    Many non corporate users purchase via consultants. People like us often recommend non "major" brands of security products based on our own research and experience with those products. Joe average on the other hand tend to purchase on neighbor's advice or hearsay...
     
  7. jrmhng

    jrmhng Registered Member

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    I don't think there are that many people who like intrusive products. Not corporate, not most home users. Just wilders peeps.
     
  8. Hermescomputers

    Hermescomputers Registered Member

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    Agreed, However those who love the easy button concept are in for a rude awakening, both at the corporate and SOHO level... it simply doesn't work!

    Any functional security these days require user intelligence to work. ie making decisions the technology cant effectively make on it's own... Fully automated system even those currently using advanced AI are not doing so great... And user intelligence seems to be in short supply.

    This doesn't leave much choice for the time being.

    That is why I support products like Prevx, which combines the best of AV's Anti spyware and HIPS all rolled into one with the advantage of a dynamic online database, user and pro supported. These types of products have the greatest potential in my opinion but they still need work before they are 100 % effective. (If that is even possible).
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2008
  9. trjam

    trjam Registered Member

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    Personally I think F-Secure with its DeepGuard Technology would secure you better then Prevx. And that leads me to a question for Prevx. I have read here where you compare samples of malware to 5 other AV vendors for reasons that slip me for right now. And you show on your website the 5 and I will agree with Symantec. But it seems a far better example, or proof, would be if the other 4 were, Kaspersky, Avira,Eset and maybe Bitdefender. I wonder what the graph would look like then.
     
  10. ako

    ako Registered Member

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    By the way, at the moment Symantec and Microsoft are doing very well according to the graph. I'm not sure the graph gives any proof on the superiority of Prevx. Actually the opposite is the case, if Symantec and Microsoft can keep the detection rates they have at the moment.

    I would also bet on F-Secure with its DeepGuard over Prevx, but I like both.
     
  11. jrmhng

    jrmhng Registered Member

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    Are the graphs somewhat misleading? Im sure there are viruses picked up by heuristics engines of the 5 AV's there that will not be picked up by PREVX. So if computers were scanned the other way around, there might be a large percentage that Onecare or Norton picks up that PREVX doesn't.
     
  12. Perman

    Perman Registered Member

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    Hi,

    If the developers of any given soft wares have a rightful wavelength of brain power, they should at least, IMO to:

    Charge corporate bodies as dearly as possible (it is an expenditure to them, and is a tax write-off).

    Assist all home users with FRee home version ( it will be an expense for them; a chip-away from their hard earned income. If soft wares are not free).

    Therefore, Home users should not have to BUY any soft wares(especially security sector) at all, PROVIDING ..... Take care.
     
  13. DVD+R

    DVD+R Registered Member

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    You give away your stuff freely then do you Perman? :cautious: Interesting, either your completely wacko o_O Or have more money than you know what to do with. Buying software helps keep the people who create it in employment, and run the cost of overheads, If things were free in life without drawbacks, then why would we have the need for Stores/Hotels/Motels/.. Etc etc.. and of course. Salaries :cautious:
     
  14. Hermescomputers

    Hermescomputers Registered Member

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    A passive detection is one thing, while an executable going active being intercepted is another. Prevx is performing wonderfully on the lather...
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2008
  15. Hermescomputers

    Hermescomputers Registered Member

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    Couldn't agree more, everyone hates to pay for anything, then they wonder why corporations have to outsource to the third world to cut costs. The jobs they see disappear in the tech industries are because everyone wants everything free... Including many employers!

    Its always great to get something free when it's not your job you have to do for free! I get probably over 100 calls a month from clueless joe's who cant understand that the calls alone they just made to me costs me money in long distance and wastes my time which costs me productivity and takes me away from those paying customers who deserve the best of my attentions and services.

    Intelligence really is in short supply!

    What makes matters worst is that it is so clear from our web site that we charge for the services...

    Currently in Canada there is a huge drop in enrollment in computer science degree's Why? Too hard and no one wants to pay for anything the graduates might develop so finding an alternative career is actually the best choice! Besides with the huge growth of the open source movement (Since only a few humongous corporations can sell anything) the growth of which I would bet the farm is proportionally due to the fact most are unable to sell their creations so they give it away because at least that way, they can still do what they love!

    I really wonder at times how do they pay the rent, food and all the other living expenses?

    Boy...I steer the pot again! :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2008
  16. Perman

    Perman Registered Member

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    Hi,

    I would not give away my stuff free aimlessly. I would do that wisely and selectively. IMO, any software developers should target corporate clients as a prime landing strips, these corporations have abundant budgets to spend either wisely or else. Then turn around offering home users free version to gain some fame and popularity.

    The leader in this field or approach is COMODO. They rake in as much as possible from those rich corporate bodies(these guys make money from you and me, the general public), and offer home users top quality free wares which we are currently enjoy. PC TOOL is catching up.They earn my respect.

    The earnings from corporate sector should be able to carry all the overheads and stay above water.

    Any soft wares developers start up from personal use sector is doomed to be a failure. Because general public guard their pocket carefully. Recent nearly-free offering of KIS KAV, McAfee just name few, has validated my views. Their actions have pushed others to follow suit.

    Take care.
     
  17. Hermescomputers

    Hermescomputers Registered Member

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    I remember the days of Peter Norton being PC Tools main competitor back then (Back when Norton was top Dog! in my opinion) PC Tools was a company with products of some substance and of high caliber... Then it went down hill for quite some times...

    The Aussies are apparently doing a decent job since they acquired it a few years back and revived it... Way to go! :thumb:

    By the way anyone knows what happened with Peter Norton? His he still doing anything or hiding on some floating highland soaking the profits from the sale of Norton Software group?
     
  18. BlueZannetti

    BlueZannetti Administrator

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    Corporate users are just like you and me. In fact, if someone on my staff is spending either their capital or expensed items budgets with what I view as careless abandon, we have a bit of a talk. I may do this twice. I don't do it a third time, at that point they can find employment elsewhere.
    I'm not sure you quite understand Comodo's business model. At least IMHO, those free applications serve to capture mindshare, are a decent promotional vehicle, and actively support the function of the enterprise level products that are paid. I tend to view them as similar to Google. They provide a service/product to us for free. We provide them with access to ourselves and that access is a part of the vehicle they use to generate revenue.
    Capital markets don't work that way. For example, if all companies used that model today, someone would quickly figure out that they could lower their costs by dropping the free option to consumers, provide a price advantage to the only population that pays, and would rise in the paid market on that basis alone. There is a constantly readjusting tension between market mindshare, actual product need, actual product performance, perceived product performance, and pricing.
    This is a sign of a market that is oversaturated with options. Just looking at the discussions on this site should make that perfectly clear. I don't see how the market can support the volume of options on the table today. In part, many of these vendors survive through churning users between new solutions - which is simply a natural part of product lifecycles. However, within a given solution set, some type of valued differentiation is required to survive. It could be performance, price relative to performance, or some other valued factor. Since this is primarily an English language site, we tend to forget that some of the smaller players can thrive in their local markets by providing superior regionalized/native language support.

    Blue
     
  19. ako

    ako Registered Member

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    I very much hope so, but there is not much evidence on this. Just opinions.
     
  20. Hermescomputers

    Hermescomputers Registered Member

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    Actually, this is not difficult to recognize at all as with AV's much emphasis is made on MD5 checksum recognition or some type of heuristic behavioral analysis which requires an executable to be executed in order to effectively work. (in an after the fact sort of way).

    If you disregard both the MD5 or SHA1 or whatever signature based checksum comparatives one would make on any incoming or resident executables. You end up having a simple executable which must be invoked and activated in memory to do anything whatsoever and as soon as this task is underway it is intercepted by products such as PREVX. the user is then notified.

    I think generic interception, analysis is superior to listings based in too many ways to elaborate here. However they do require user intelligence and this is it's weakness as well as its strength with technically astute users it outperforms automated ai by a large margins as were the ai based are somewhat useful on the lowest denominator (If not absolutely necessary with them). as the request made by the likes of PREVX or threatfire or even Comodo Defense + would be answered as an insurmountable challenge due to ignorance or incomprehension...
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2008
  21. ako

    ako Registered Member

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    Do you have some statistics that shows that Prevx is really here better than e.g. F-secure, KIS, or Threatfire?
     
  22. Hermescomputers

    Hermescomputers Registered Member

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    Please do note: I make no claims as to Prevx being superior to any other brands or products. I only discuss technological perspectives. I never get into this lightly vailed fight between the different vendors lurking on this forum. In fact I often promote competitors (think Threatfire & PREVX or comodo Defense + in this case) the reason is they are all utilizing what I believe to be the best methodology and the "future" of security applications. Even though they are for all practical purposes really under development conceptually as new threats continue to bring more and varied challenges.

    Any statistic can be doctored to mean almost anything one so desires...
    I try and understand "The Innards" of how things work and play them up myself.

    No I have no statistics, and have little faith in them. As I have little faith in product marketing propaganda or of technical writers who get free product when they write positive reviews either... :-*

    I see too many bozos posting stats from "disreputable" sources here and, I would respectfully advise many to practice "Caveat Emptor" as much as possible!
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2008
  23. gud4u

    gud4u Registered Member

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    Perhaps I'm a fool for actually buying security software, but so be it.

    When I was convinced that the best AV for me was NOD32, I bought it.

    I trialled multiple firewalls and firewall/HIPS products, until I decided the free Online Armor was the best of the free solutions, then I bought the paid version for the added features and functions.

    For myself, these forums are superb for information about what security apps are the most promising. The technical knowledge on this forum is amazing! The next logical step is to trial them to see if they function as expected. But, personally, endless trialling becomes a waste of my time at some point. At that time I buy the license for the products that will likely remain satisfactory for the period of the license.

    When I find a security app that provides the best combination of protection, compability, stability and quiet ease-of-use, the search is over - at least for a while. I have better things to do.

    I've made some mistakes along the way, buying licenses for apps that I've uninstalled in favor of a better solution - sometimes for a free app that was better (the Adblock Plus extension for Firefox is an example). But not often.
     
  24. Empath

    Empath Registered Member

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    Wow! Talk of confused facts!

    PC Tools (the company) has nothing to do with the Central Point PC Tools (the product) software of the past.

    Norton Utilities and Central Point's PC Tools were very similar, but still different enough to merit the use of both products. Norton Utilities was targeted a little more toward the novice user, since PC Tools basically got down to the lowest level of operation possible. However, they were close enough to be competitive products.

    Symantec first bought Norton Utilities and targeted the general users with their versions. PC Tools, still remained the superior product, but required more expertise for safe use. However, as regards the type of product, there were only two feasible products on the market that dealt as extensively in disk, file and system manipulation. That was Symantec's Norton Utilities and Central Point PC Tools.

    It was then that Symantec wiped out ALL competition in that area. They purchased Central Point's PC Tools. Of course the story was they could make use of Central Point's technologies for everyones' benefit. What they really did was to simply drop all development and production of PC Tools, leaving their Norton Utilities with no competitor.

    Central Point's PC Tools has nothing to do with PC Tools the company.
     
  25. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    If you are a fool, you aren't alone. I also feel it appropriate to pay for my software. I don't mind supporting vendors as I feel I am the winner.

    Pete
     
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