Which Disk Defragmenter?

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by Coolio10, Sep 20, 2008.

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  1. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    Hey Paranoid2000,
    thats pretty much my experience as well.
    plus the boot time defrag didnt work. due to driver not loading.
    have you tryed any other defrag programs?
     
  2. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    To have a good organised file layout on disk is without question so defrag is sometimes necessary,but to have a long thread on ''which is best'' is a waste of time,IMO there,s no essential differences between them in terms of refragment times and perf. gain,so take whatever you fit,even windows default defragger is great.Afterall they all use the windows API.
     
  3. Arup

    Arup Guest

    Well after being a long time die hard PD user I have to admit I am very impressed with O&O Defrag Pro version 11 and am keeping it for now over PD 2008 till PD gets its act together.
     
  4. SandyD

    SandyD Registered Member

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    I read this thread with interest and just wonder is it really important to even use a defragger? I find it funny when people notice a 2 second gain in opening a program by using this program over that one. Does it really matter?
    What about the risk that this intentional moving about of files may corrupt the drive - anyone having had a bad experience?
     
  5. Seer

    Seer Registered Member

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    Not IMO.
    Defraggers are nice little toys with little colorful squares dancing around your screen and all that eye-candy stuff, but here is what I find really interesting about them. Resource hogging and runnung unnecessary services aside, I had a little test of my own recently with a couple of these beasts and I will just give an example - I have 3 partitions, system C, data D & E on a single HDD on this PC. Uncompressed, unshadowed, just the plain old NTFS. The partitions were never defragged in a life of HD (1,5 years). Here's the "Fragmentation Analysis" results from a couple of popular defraggers (latest versions of course) - C, D and E respectively -
    1. SmartDefrag - 55%, 42%, 44%
    2. PerfectDisk - 4%, 5.5%, 7%
    3. Diskeeper - 32%, 14%, 78%
    Now, WTF was that? I would very much like to rationalize the use of defraggers on my systems, but with such results it is very hard to find a reason. As it is (and always was) no defragger for me, thank you...
     
  6. Ed_H

    Ed_H Registered Member

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    I have been using PD for several years. I used to get a definite improvement in system responsiveness, especially with off-line defrags. With the latest version, I don't notice any improvement at all over not defragging and sometimes my laptop actually seems slower after a defrag with PD.

    So, I am trying Ultimate Defrag right now and I would say there is a small improvement in performance but for some reason it always shows the fragmentation level at 27%. I also seem to need to defrag at least daily to maintain the increased performance.
     
  7. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

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    I was also using PD for years but the new update is too slow and even though I got it working with FolderLock (Raxco said this is impossible). Because of their poor support policies, this gave me a chance to experiment and I have switched to Ultimate Defrag for two reasons.

    1. More options for optimizing placement of files than any of the others I have tested. (Puran, PD, Smart, O&O, JKDefrag). It does not have boot time defrag, but it will work fine with Puran, which has a very small footprint, to do this function every once in awhile.

    I have two (1 is external) 750 gb disks for program storage and backup. I am now doing a Folder/Name defrag with the strictly sorted option and putting the backup files at the beginning of the disk. I am also using the 20% HP/80% archive for recent files in addition to respecting high performance and archiving. This defrag is on the two 750 GB drives that I use for storage and backup. It is a long process since these several year old drives have never been defragged. If you use Consolidate with archiving with fast placement and on the next defrags, it should run very quickly and also speed up my backups.

    It runs very quickly on my System and Data partitions also.

    2. Perfect Disk was going to take over 3 days to defrag a 750 Gb Sata drive using SmartPlacement. Way too long.

    Silver
     
  8. Coolio10

    Coolio10 Registered Member

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    Lowered my choices down. Mainly only ones that optimize.

    Puran Defrag - I like it, simple, yet effective and getting more popular here.
    UltimateDefrag - Did a good job according to perfectdisk and i like the detailed disk view/image (fun to watch) :) Its time left is useless, sometimes hours off.
    Smart Defrag - Not sure how good of a job but its getting a lot of publicity here.
    PerfectDisk - Some people seem to think its overhyped, and im starting to think so too.

    Maybe: O&O and JKDEFRAG

    Now please give me your reasons for/for not using each of the above.

    I did chkdsk on both my computers and now UD got the fragmentation below 2%.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2008
  9. Coolio10

    Coolio10 Registered Member

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    UltimateDefrag did an amazing job. But has to be one of the slowest defragmenters i have ever used. Having a useless time left doesn't help.

    See results below. I think its best to run puran just before to make it easier on UD.

    I think best combination is puran+ultimate.

    Not sure how much puran contributed but i did run it just before UD and the perfectdisk analysis is perfect.
     

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  10. Paranoid2000

    Paranoid2000 Registered Member

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    Boot time failed once for me due to a driver conflict but worked when I repeated it.

    I've downloaded a copy of Puran - at 2.3MB it should show a lot less bloat though I don't expect much improvement performance-wise from it either. The main benefits a third party utility could offer would be a more informative UI plus some control over file placement.

    The reason I think performance gains would be minimal is that while defragmenting files is straightforward, locating them on disk for best performance is really hard. Moving files to the end (where transfer rates should be best) is only likely to work for large files - with small ones what you gain on transfer speeds would be lost on seek times.

    But many users run utilities (AV scanners, desktop theming software, mouse drivers) that require frequent file access and this can typically occur when a new program is started (the AV scanner will intercept the file request which will trigger another further disk access to its program/database, a mouse driver hook may need to be loaded for each new window opened, etc). It is this that can throw the spanner in any file placement algorithm since multiple files in different locations will need to be accessed and this can't be done without incurring seek time penalties (unless you switch to SSD or ramdisk).

    The best option would seem to involve using a tool like FileMon to identify those files accessed regularly and then relocating them to a new partition on a separate disk (or creating a ramdisk if plenty of RAM is available). This would mean uninstall/reinstalling the application since creating a link/shortcut from the old to the new partition would still incur a seek penalty. Once this is done, they should no longer interfere with placement strategy on the main disk.

    A disk optimisation tool that took all those steps automatically should provide a more noticeable benefit than current third party defragmentation tools. Anyone up for writing one?
     
  11. Arup

    Arup Guest

    If you looked at the help file of O&O it gives detailed advice on what strategy to adapt, it this particular aspect that impresses me the most. The choices are far more than what other defraggers offer and when done right, O&O excels in terms of performance.
     
  12. Bunkhouse Buck

    Bunkhouse Buck Registered Member

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    The reality is, they do little (if any) good at all. They are a "feel good" thing- not something that actually achieves something.
     
  13. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    so you think companies spend thousands of pounds on defrag programs just for a good feel?
     
  14. Ocky

    Ocky Registered Member

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    Maybe pedestrian, but is there anything 'wrong' with my way ?

    I use Contig (couple KB's) together with the Power Defragmenter GUI
    for Contig. Plus Pagedefrag when necessary. Also wipe free space
    with Blowfish Advanced. I find these tools used fairly regularly are
    a small improvement on the Windows defragmenter.

    Contig 1.54


    Power Defragmenter GUI for Contig


    Pagedefrag
     
  15. Bunkhouse Buck

    Bunkhouse Buck Registered Member

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    You got it- just as financial companies spent millions on software and programming to trade mortgage backed derivative securities and now have trillions of dollars of losses worldwide. The number of dollars spent by companies and consumers for defraggers, does not validate the efficacy of them.

    I have not seen any definitive evidence that defragmenters do anything to speed up a modern hard drive. I have seen evidence they actually slow them up in some cases.
     
  16. Arup

    Arup Guest

    Why would MS give the base DK with its OS then? Unlike Linux FS, NTFS gets fragmented over time and use.
     
  17. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    then it is microsoft's fault for creating a bad file system.
     
  18. Arup

    Arup Guest


    It is but MS and Windows is a necessary evil........so there you go.
     
  19. Bunkhouse Buck

    Bunkhouse Buck Registered Member

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    You are not suggesting that Microsoft including DK base makes them the expert of last resort about this? If you grant that premise, than you cannot fault them for creating an OS that is prone to malware invasions since they know it all- right?

    The fragmenting does not entail slower access times with NTFS on a modern hard drive. I have seen data from others (and in our own tests), that there is no significant difference between fragmented files and their defragmented state.
     
  20. Arup

    Arup Guest


    My experience tells me otherwise, I have tried not to defragment and have seen significant time increase in boot, program access as well as data access so I bet to differ here.
     
  21. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    malware isnt completely microsoft's fault. yes internet explorer does allow infected by just visiting a website due to activeX but its mainly targeted due to the amount of people who use it. mac's are starting to get malware.

    creating a decent file system that doesnt need defragging is something that should definatly be sorted out. its definatly microsoft's fault no doubt.
     
  22. Arup

    Arup Guest

    Yes and so is registry as well, Linux file structure is far superior but sadly we do have to live with MS as well and therefore deal with its vagaries.
     
  23. GlobalForce

    GlobalForce Regular Poster

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    I doubt the contribution's that went beyond speculation were even noticed, let alone acknowledged. Hat's off gentlemen!

    -- Mark Patton
     
  24. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    thanks for giving me an excuse to get that 1tb samsung spinpoint £80:D
    acually ill probaly just get 4gb of ram.
     
  25. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    Perhaps you have a bit too much on your drive ?
     

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