when was the last time anyone found a real live virus ?

Discussion in 'other anti-virus software' started by Long View, Dec 7, 2007.

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  1. Hermescomputers

    Hermescomputers Registered Member

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    Well, PREVX is ok, it is often able to pickup threats on infected systems, I cant complain about it. However to me it is simply another tool in the box to assist me in doing my work.

    From a sales perspective it isn't a very lucrative product as I must do too much work to educate users as to its value, as the average clients are already brainwashed by their own anti virus or security beliefs. Also the product is very low cost so unless large volume sales are stimulated profits are little to non existent.
     
  2. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    Thanks - the thing that interests me is that there are users who:

    (1) have no security and get infected
    (2) have security and still get infected
    (3) have security and don't get infected
    (4) have little or no security and don't get infected.

    It is the hows and whys that interest me. Based upon your four points how difficult is it really for a user to stay contamination free ? get your mail delivered by a decent mail provider and beware of what you open. Decent hardware firewall. Firefox - No scripts and be very careful when installing new software. Throw in virtual protection and that should be more than enough.

    If ever I take up deep sea diving I will no doubt take lessons and buy the right equipment. Next time I go for a walk in the rain, however, I will not take that equipment with me - just in case I fall into a puddle deep enough to require me to wear and aqualung.
     
  3. Hermescomputers

    Hermescomputers Registered Member

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    Hahaha... nicely put!

    Well yes, the problem is in the quantification of need, and it is obviously a rather dynamic issue as it relies on constantly changing variables defined by the environment and the relative task at hand. However as one tries and provides a guideline one is forced to push the boundary of the extremes as no two users are operating quite the same even in a similar environment...
     
  4. trjam

    trjam Registered Member

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    Wow. Talk about putting a KOD on a product.:blink:
     
  5. Hermescomputers

    Hermescomputers Registered Member

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    Not at all, my remark is in the context of selling the product and not on it's effectiveness as an anti malware...
     
  6. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    Hello,

    It comes down to one simple principle: default deny. That's the HOW. Once people learn to click NO first then investigate WHY later, things becomes so much simpler.

    Therefore:

    Email with a bullshit attachment - do not open.
    Program with a bullshit statement - do not run.
    Browser exploits - do not allow scripts on every site.

    And so forth.

    It does not take super intelligence or super effort, just 10 min of explanation. And if people do not listen to you after that - they don't deserve to be holders of the computer license - equal to explaining to someone driving why they should stop at the stop sign.

    Stop first, check, drive.

    Deny first, check, execute / or alike.

    Unfortunately, most people disrespect the computers they use; what do they expect in return then?

    Mrk
     
  7. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    Yes - That about sums it up.

    But even "Once people learn to click NO first"

    Even so I remember a phone call a few years back- "I can't get on to the internet" My Question - What did you do ? " Ans - "Nothing" Me - Come on - what did you do ? " Ans "Well Kerio asked me a question which I did not understand , so I clicked on NO. As I told you I did nothing"
     
  8. ProSecurity

    ProSecurity Registered Member

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    Back in the days of sneakernetting with 1.44MB floppies, maybe once a week.

    Last virus was detected by NOD32 approx. 9 months ago, with incoming (no torrents) averaging about 2GBs per day.
     
  9. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    It's almost hilarious. Folks who know you harbor some knowledge to recover their PC from internet/programs crud in whatever form, come begging for help, you thoroughly re-sanitize their system back to working order, you add just enough security for them that won't be totally lost in running regularly scheduled checks/scans, and what do they do?

    They run right back headlong over and over again into the same mess that cost them lost service or data in the first place, and they return with another new excuse but mostly, i dunno how this happened?

    I dunno if some of you seen the mess i'm talking about, but i'm talking about for starters just firing up hijackthis and an Alternate Data Streams check with lists of malware files long as toilet paper rolls.
     
  10. Bunkhouse Buck

    Bunkhouse Buck Registered Member

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    I could not agree more. Hard core marketing and the paranoia of users (many of the members of this forum) combine to enrich the AV companies. "Layered protection" adds another layer of cash to their bank accounts.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2008
  11. Hermescomputers

    Hermescomputers Registered Member

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    Perhaps you miss the rather "Large" fact that most of these layers are actually free of charge and practically developed as some sort of technical welfare offer. (which in this case goes rather unappreciated)
     
  12. Hermescomputers

    Hermescomputers Registered Member

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    I could not agree more!
    I started to push for users to use multi layered defenses to compensate for this rather incomprehensible behavior. I have to put some customers on maintenance plans where I remotely manage their machines just to keep fixing the crap they get into...

    And I read bozos here saying with a loud voice that security is over rated and unnecessary... Makes me wonder!

    I have more technical skills than most people I meet and yet I have been infected more than once, a few time I even required complete rebuild to get rid of the nasties...

    Anyone who claims to never require any security is either on medication or is point blank misleading. Besides these facts, most anti virus are actually ineffective, as 99% of jobs I get to cleanup systems, already had a top brand AV installed + Anti Spyware & a Firewall !!!

    If Those defenses worked, how do some of you explain why we still have to clean infections?
    Blame the users? Stupidity? I don't think so!

    As a side note, for those of my clients who have listened to me (Some used to get into a lot of troubles) and used the guidance and tools as I state in the Cyber Self Defense part of my web site I never get calls from them anymore to cleanup the machine because of malware trouble or hacks....
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2008
  13. solcroft

    solcroft Registered Member

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    ... Are they aware you're doing this?
     
  14. ProSecurity

    ProSecurity Registered Member

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    Blame the OS.
     
  15. Hermescomputers

    Hermescomputers Registered Member

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    errr... signed contract with a cheque attached....:)
     
  16. Hermescomputers

    Hermescomputers Registered Member

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    Actually here I disagree.... Blame the SOB's who spend hours, weeks and perhaps months struggling to write algorithms used solely to frack you system up or steal info.

    It's is like blaming shoes for stepping on a tack that pierced it's sole....
     
  17. ProSecurity

    ProSecurity Registered Member

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    Sometimes I wonder about those SOBs, because the creators of those algorithms should be the best equipped to neutralize them.

    If the greatest virus writer alive walked into the offices of Symantec, Kaspersky or Avira and asked for a job, would he be hired on the spot?

    If he was, wouldn't that be the ultimate irony? :(
     
  18. Hermescomputers

    Hermescomputers Registered Member

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    Mitnick anyone?
    The guy made more money and got a real career after doing time for hacking anything with a wavelength than when he was as a hack! They where practically climbing over each other like cockroaches to hire this guy when he came out of prison...
     
  19. solcroft

    solcroft Registered Member

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    No.

    Writing malware is an easier task of many orders of magnitude than writing an AV.
     
  20. ProSecurity

    ProSecurity Registered Member

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    As I have never written malware, I will just have to accept your word on the subject...
     
  21. ProSecurity

    ProSecurity Registered Member

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    Even the US government was in the frenzy...
     
  22. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    I'm afraid you would have to put me down as a loud mouthed bozo because I do believe that security is very much over rated. Far too many seem to believe that all they have to do is find the perfect program or layers of programs and the problem will be solved - thinking and understanding being option extras.

    Not on medication so must be point blank misleading. Perhaps its a question of semantecs. From my sig you can see that I have protection - it's just that most would not see Acronis, Netgear, Firefox and DeepFreeze or Returnil as protection. Perhaps that is the problem ? From my point of view I feel that they provide me with more appropriate protection than the AV's. A/S and software firewalls
    that would normally be seen as providing security. As to HIPs I have run them
    and have yet to find anything nasty for them to stop.
     
  23. ProSecurity

    ProSecurity Registered Member

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    What a lovely post; most satisfying.
    And so OT!

    A revelation.
     
  24. Hermescomputers

    Hermescomputers Registered Member

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    Hello Long View!

    That is just the point, you do have security and layered at that!. A router with a firewall is still a firewall, a tool to recover from system changes is still a security tool just not a pro active one but a reactive one. (Recover after the fact)...

    My argument is that some seem to think that because "They" didn't get infected in the last 24 hours they should then logically infer that no one needs securityo_O Makes no sense to me!

    Also to acquire the proper defenses does require thinking and understanding, most especially when using a layered approach.... That is why so few are opting for it and most are simply delegating mindlessly to an AV or AS... Simply put they chose the easier softer solution that will ultimately lead them back to a problem down the road...

    Here is a paragraph of my article dealing with this (Cyber Self Defense)
    The effort of those trying to breach our defenses by exploiting the multitudes of vulnerabilities discovered almost daily are relentless. The job of securing one's system active on the Internet is by no means simple. Anyone who claims otherwise is either misguided or misleading.

    These facts alone should motivate today's online computer users to really keep focused, sharp and alert on all matters related to computers, and online security, and not simply mindlessly delegate to a single product or a single company's line of products.

    I believe that brand loyalty in this case can often prove counter productive as developers tend to downplay vital weaknesses in their product, and much too often chose to over hype useless features that actually provide little real security benefit to end users while they use far too many system resources slowing everything down.

    Instead I would strongly recommend users take full control of their security, educate themselves, and consider a multi layered approach such as we describe here, and to not only once, but regularly research, re asses, and over haul their existing setup for optimal benefit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2008
  25. Bunkhouse Buck

    Bunkhouse Buck Registered Member

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    In refutation, you miss the very "Large" fact that if you look at what members of this forum are using (some have five or more active malware programs) on their boxes, they are far from free. I am a free market capitalist, but users have been suckered into believing that threats are lurking behind every web address.
     
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