What on earth has happened to viable HIPS software availability?

Discussion in 'other anti-malware software' started by Smiggy, Mar 10, 2017.

  1. guest

    guest Guest

    Yep , HIPS are good memories from a past age; we have better and more usable tools now.
     
  2. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    My own past dedication to EQSecure 32bit Classical HIPS is a strong influence on how I choose my security apps for 64bit Windows, in this case 8.1

    I tried all of today's current flavors of near HIPS from Comodo to SpyShelter etc. and they still leave me gasping for the old now abandoned ones like some of you.

    Haven't tried Re-HIPS so no opinion on it but I am now trying Appguard and while it is no HIPS, looks like I found another pretty decent security app to keep bad things at bay and like HIPS, it does show a pop up alert box which for is always been a great feature and always will. I am not one of the Silent majority obviously. Noise is a valuable tool for some of us.
     
  3. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Easter if you really want pop ups you can get plenty from appguard. Kinda pointless though since what they tell you is you were protected. No decisions needed. Times they are a changing.
     
  4. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    In my recent testings I can see that and will likely have to check the box to keep them closed however while learning it they show what we already know right? Appguard BLOCKED! xy and z etc.

    In the meantime this Appguard to me is better or as good as any Software Restriction Policy app I seen in awhile.

    But i still long for a solid HIPS one day no matter if things have changed a dozen times over. It was a great educational tool/experience too.
     
  5. guest

    guest Guest

    The "blocked" alerts are extremely important, because you know what created the alert and then you can pinpoint the potential issue (if any).
     
  6. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    Exactly.

    When using EQSecure that particular HIPS was not only a security apparatus but for some an important chief instrument in conducting malwares research since those ALERTS also were full of crucial data information on the identification, origin path, destination paths, etc. and basically trapping the intrusive file(s) long enough to Cut/Paste them to a confinement folder.

    As such Classical HIPS served a dual purpose similar to what you can still do today with Shadow Defender but without getting your system hammered.
     
  7. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    No not really. Pure behavior blockers will try to make decisions for you, and I want to rely on my own expertise.

    Actually, I believe that SS Premium doesn't offer the firewall. I use SSFW, it has a basic firewall, not ad advanced as others.

    You can find a list over here:

    http://www.matousec.com/projects/proactive-security-challenge/product-list.php

    Speak for yourself. If you need behavioral monitoring you need HIPS, it's that simple.
     
  8. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    I'm not touching that.

    However a good BB in my opinion would be fantastic if a good one could be made with all the additionals needed to pick up on today's sneaker attack designs on x64 systems of any Windows platform
     
  9. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    But why do you need behavioral monitoring. Isn't the objective to keep the machine, not spend all day monitoring
     
  10. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    I'm sorry but that has been explained several times already, see link. The point is to monitor new apps that you run or install, and based on the alerts you decide whether the app is safe or not. So you don't spend "all day monitoring". Also, if you look at the newest enterprise solutions, it's all about behavioral monitoring combined with AI/Machine Learning.

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/thr...tware-availability.392576/page-5#post-2670329
     
  11. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    If I might take a stab at this Pete.

    I think we are comparing apples to oranges here and contrary to some rubs made between personal preferences for one or the other, or the solid positions taken on choices, at the end of the day doesn't it also boil down to "monitoring"?

    No matter if you prefer or rely on a HIPS or not, or quick to dismiss them as obsolete, another main point of the discussion remains.

    That happens to be that whether it's Appguard or another security app(s) layered perhaps, everyone's own preferred security solution MONITORS ACTIVITY too.

    In that monitoring rests details that some find useful for different reasons or for those that prefer set & forget, they might not have any interest in them at all.
     
  12. B-boy/StyLe/

    B-boy/StyLe/ Registered Member

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    Once the rules are created the HIPS will alert you only on new and (or) unknown applications. I didn't receive alerts from 2 weeks from the HIPS module and I use my PC a lot.
     
  13. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    This is a great Topic for discussion from my standpoint simply because with a good Classical HIPS once rules are established and set it's Tight! and the user can configure whether they want to keep seeing certain one's or not. Once that's done than afterwards if you do get an ALERT than you are in an idea position to take steps to identify and make even more granular adjustments (if needed) or simply click ALLOW/DENY either/or once or Whitelist/Blacklist whatever.

    Speaking of today's choices, a very popular but imo rare 64 bit HIPS in SpyShelter have their own set of difficulties in dealing with threats identification.
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/appguard-4-x-32-64-bit.355206/page-290#post-2670007

    I agree the Availability of a viable HIPS for 64 bit is still somewhat puzzling to me but not so much where concerns the big movers, AV's AS's etc.

    At least from a geeks point-of-view there is nothing primitive about them at all. Quite to the contrary.

    Even freelancers who had absolutely nothing much to gain than recognition and maybe some expertise used to fashion up a beta or two for release but of course that was 32 bit days. Then of course there were the more popular ones we still relish to this very day, Malware Defender, EQSecure, SystemSafetyMonitor, and on.

    I can see it now though.

    Should some developer have the absolute gall to dare to form up a viable 64 bit working model and drop in Wilder's Security Forum for testing I like to be the first to count the downloads and read the replies/opinions.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
  14. Azure Phoenix

    Azure Phoenix Registered Member

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    Kinda sounds like Emsisoft would be perfect for you.

    In default setting, it only auto-blocks processes with known 'bad' reputation. Unknowns will get you an alert for you to decide what to do.

    All the advantages of behavior monitoring without the unnecessary hassle of HIPS.
     
  15. guest

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    @Rasheed187 @Azure Phoenix

    old mamutu would be perfect for Rasheed , you could make your own rules and it has a paranoid mode making it almost an HIPS ; the actual one is too simplified and automated ; one reason i ditched EAM too :D.

    @EASTER the whole discussion is resumed to 2 points:

    1- those who can't live without active monitoring: they need HIPS or BB , no other choices for them. Basically "let talk together, if i don't like you, i shot you"

    2- those who don't need monitoring but just need auto-blocking: those uses SRP or anti-exes. Basically " shoot first, talk after"

    2 point of views and needs, 2 kinds of products available. As all of you, surely guess , i'm the second type. Why monitor alien processes when i know i will block them anyway?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 27, 2017
  16. sm1

    sm1 Registered Member

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    @Rasheed187 You may try Trustport:). It has HIPS/BB but it is disabled by default. You can enable it in settings.
     
  17. blacknight

    blacknight Registered Member

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    What better for example ? I never really liked pure BB, if you mean them. And I can use sandboxing or virtualization, but my first defense line is HIPS.
     
  18. blacknight

    blacknight Registered Member

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    Yes, we had not time to try a new software that immediately appeared another newer. Personally I regret, after SSM :), EqSecure and ProSecurity.
     
  19. guest

    guest Guest

    SRPs like Appguard; anti-exe like VS or ERP , etc...
     
  20. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    I almost had forgotten, but Mamutu if allowed to also been a standalone app with a few improvements tossed in for good measure WAS for me a preferred choice working in tandem with HIPS.

    Overlap? Mostly yes but it was always the first app to jump up and snatch an incoming file/reg signal before my HIPS picked it up after allowing passage.

    And yes, in Paranoid Mode mostly but not always. Wasn't so bad for a pure BB if you ask me.
     
  21. guest

    guest Guest

    Online Armor + EAM was almost bulletproof.
     
  22. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    All these apps I depended on most are now TOAST. I despise that it happened with a passion too.

    I can't help but believe that most of them were forced out of the mainstream and not exactly from their own doing because of this or that.

    Online Armor was the absolute best Firewall/Some HIPS Combo (on my boxes) and it literally picked up networked activity like I haven't seen since.

    Ugh.
     
  23. guest

    guest Guest

    Yes, Emsisoft decided to take the simplicity road, can't blame them , they got more customers. i just regret they stopped developing it, but the cost/benefit ratio wasn't in OA's side.
     
  24. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    I tried the old Mamutu and didn't even like it, it wasn't any better than SpyShelter or Comodo. I believe Comodo is currently the most robust HIPS, but it comes with a price, I always had weird problems with it, and it was being too aggressive with dumb alerts.

    Thanks, but I'm already using SS. Unless Trustport offers protection against ransomware and process hollowing it wouldn't really be interesting to me, espcially because I prefer standalone HIPS.

    Can't be compared. All HIPS offer AE, but in addition they also monitor app behavior. You either need it or you don't.
     
  25. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    People forgot software is a business and has to make money. Tallemu was bleeding badly with Online Armor which is why they sold it. Same thing happened to Emsisoft. I won't be surprised if Spyshelter ends up in the same boat. The current solutions are the new reality. Wishing for the old days just won't work.
     
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