Warning: DVD option will take off OS!!!

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by starsfan09, Jun 23, 2006.

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  1. starsfan09

    starsfan09 Registered Member

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    Been testing Acronis for a week and half now. It's important for me to be able to back to both USB External Hard Drives, and DVD+-R Discs (Taiyo Yuden). Acronis really needs to realize that NOT every computer will have a USB External HD attached, so therfore, the DVD Burn feature has got to work!! Plain and simple...it must work. But does it?? I waited for b3666 to correct this issue, but I don't think it has.

    I installed b3666 from a clean install. Created the Boot-Up CD, and went through the procedure to burn a "Back-Up" straight to a DVD. Put the Boot-CD, and Back-up in and restarted. Came to the Restore screen, and it was able to read the .TIB file from the DVD. But however, when I go through the menu, and press "Proceed" to try to restore it...I get a box with this message in it...[E00070003: Failed to Read Data From the Disk].

    The next thing I do is just close the program because it won't go any futher. I eject the Boot-CD, and Reboot. When it trys to boot, I get a black screen on the monitor with the cursor blinking. Next, I get the message "Unable to locate Operating System"! What this means is ....Acronis deleted the C:/ partition. It also means that I must Re-Install Windows Xp!!!

    Acronis is really gonna mess some computers up with this DVD Backup feature. There is STILL a bug in it, but this time....theres a major problem. It NOT reading the Disc was simple - because you would just take the DVD out, and Reboot back into Windows. But this one is a catastrophe!! Now, its DELETING the C:/ drive partition when it's trying to read the DVD and fails!! People will be Reinstalling XP...right there...on the Spot!!!:mad: :blink:

    ----------------------------------
    Luckily, the ONLY that saved me from Reinstalling Windows just now was...I didn't trust the DVD feature yet, and backed the very same file up to my USB External. I proceeded through the Restore menu again...clicking the exact same options. But this time, there was NO problem restoring from the USB External at all. It restored in less than 10 minutes.

    Acronis, You guys have to gotta get on top of this issue. Now you're wiping Operationg Systems out!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2006
  2. starsfan09

    starsfan09 Registered Member

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    I called Acronis Tech Support. A Tech and myself sat for 45minutes going through all this. He realizes it's just not a bug...but DISASTEROUS to a lot people who try to use this feature.
    I just hope the hell they get this solved. I'm starting to question if this company consists of Professionals, or just some guys in a basement playing around!!o_O
     
  3. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    I wouldn't say that this was lucky I would say that it was very sensible to have an alternate image and method of restore.

    As to whether there is a bug in TI 9 (3666) - well that depends upon how you define bug. I have had no problem making or restoring from DVD. As TI 9 (3666) is the same in all cases the reason for success for some and failure for
    others might have a different cause - and not just be a TI bug. I would bet that the majority of reported issues would disappear if TI 9 were installed on newly installed systems.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2006
  4. starsfan09

    starsfan09 Registered Member

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    Oh, this is more than a Bug.
    When I spoke with the Technician at Acronis, we went through the entire DVD Restore on the phone. He realized, ...(like I did) that when you try to use the DVD feature, and if you happen to the get "Error" message saying [E00070003: Failed to Read data from the Disk] ...whether you realize it or not...it's going to delete the C:/ partition.
    You're left with having to Re-Install Windows XP right then because whether it Restores the Back-up, or Not...the C:/ Drive is gone!
    Now, if the DVD Restore attempt goes through, then the C:/ Drive is put back, and you're OK. But..if Acronis can't Restore it from the DVD ..then your left with a BIG problem.

    Oh, BTW...I did "Validate" the DVD after the Back-up was complete. And then "Verified" it when I attempted to Restore it.

    I do have a Freshly installed OS. (Windows XP Pro spk2). And this is my system.
    Dell XPS400
    "Preslar" Pentium D 940 3.2ghz
    Intel 945p Motherboard
    eVGA nVidia 6800 256mb PCI-Express
    2 Gigs SDRam (Samsung @ 533mhz)
    Western Digital "Raptor" 74gb 10,000rpm
    Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS
    19' FP Viewsonic monitor
    LG DVD-Rom
    NEC_3550 DVD+-RW Burner 106fw
    2 Western Digital "Essential" 120gb USB 2.0 External HD's.
     
  5. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    If a restore fails to complete - having only deleted the C:/ then the solution is to create another C:/ and then restore another image.

    I would use Acronis disk director - but if you have concerns about Acronis I would imagine that Partition Magic ( whatever its called these days) would do the job or any partition program.

    I appreciate that Acronis should not destroy C:/ if it is unable to restore. In any event a good partition program is not a bad thing to have on hand and certainly helps avoid the need for a full reinstallation.
     
  6. SemiP

    SemiP Registered Member

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    I see it similarly to Long View up to a point.

    I don't see this as a DVD specific problem, though. I had a Restore from Hard Drive fail, and the system partition was also destroyed in the process. I had to fall back to an alternate image that was intact, and the restore worked fine.

    ATI is building the restored image over time, in steps. At some point, the old partition starts to be eaten alive to make room for the blocks of the image that is being restored. If the restore process fails as the new image is being written, one is left with a corrupt partition. What alternative is possible? A complete checkpointing system that can backtrack to recreate the blocks that were overwritten and restore the previous image? And where would the checkpoint data be kept?

    I've had problems with restores from DriveImage, which is why I migrated to ATI. I've heard more than a few horror stories from Ghost users. Drive imaging and restore are non-trivial applications. Having more than one restore image option is basic survival. Less is foolhardy. All in all, ATI provides a satisfactory level of assurance for my needs and use. However, my use does not depend on frequent swapping in and out of partition images.

    SemiP.
     
  7. starsfan09

    starsfan09 Registered Member

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    You guys are taking this in a different direction. I'm NOT wanting to create different partitions at all. All I simply wanted to do was make a Acronis FULL Back-up to a DVD+R (Taiyo Yuden), and simply Restore when I need to. Yes, I do have USB Externals, but my kid will not have this, so I have to rely of DVD Back-ups for her computer.

    The problem I experienced today with an Acronis Tech Support agent was described above. After all the "Verifications" and "Validation" that said the disc was good, we tried to Restore from the DVD+R. We got so far, and got the disc error message. Yes, we did try to create another C:/ partition, but when the program can't read the disc to Restore to THAT partition, then you have Nothing to put back to it.
    While Acronis was trying to read the DVD, a few seconds later....the error happened. But by that time, the C:/ drive partition was gone!!

    My conclusion is ...either it was the way I named the file, or the DVD Burner burned to fast. Since Acronis doesn't have a feature to select the Burn speed, it probably burned way to fast. Usually when that happens, you have problem with ANY disc. I'm thinking that if they put a Burn Speed select drop down menu, therefore giving you the option to select a slower burn...it may help. :cautious:
     
  8. davidiocane

    davidiocane Registered Member

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    Wiping the O/S drive is not a unique problem to Acronis - Ghost and Drive Image both also do it "randomnly".

    There is a "quick fix".

    Acronis 9.1.3534 has also dropped / deleted my C:\ a few times.

    What you should do when this happens is re-boot with your Boot CD in, and restore the image to the "unallocated space" partiton - when the c:\ is dropped, the space on the hdd remains unaffected but is listeed / shown up as "unallocated space".

    Then when you re-boot, use Partition Magic [or equivilent] to fix / repair / rename / move contents / re-allocate free space etc... on any other partitions on your hdd.

    Hope this helps to some degree.

    Dave
     
  9. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    davidiocane,

    It would be a frightening event. Do you have any references to Ghost and Drive Image wiping the OS drive? I've not seen it reported with Ghost 9 or 10 so I'm interested.
     
  10. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

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    I would suggest opening a thread in Software and Services for any non-Acronis related problems. Another possibility is personal messages or email contact.
    Let's stay on topic in these forums.
     
  11. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    Starsfan09,

    I would strongly urge that you also store the backups for her computer on multiple devices. You have multiple devices for your computer, why not the same for her. You want your backups to work and having only DVD is very risky and that goes for backups made by any backup software. I have used Drive Image for years and then moved on to TrueImage. I still use both--just as safety factor. Acronis is not at fault if the media become un-usable. Many on the forum backup to other internals plus externals plus network drives plus DVD media. You can never be too safe!
     
  12. starsfan09

    starsfan09 Registered Member

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    Go through all this just back up a computer in your home! yeah right!

    After beating my head against the wall all day and night, I'm tired now after burning 10 Back-Up DVD's. This software is just to damn buggy, and it's NOT dependable if you use the DVD Burn option. You take risk of having to Reinstall XP right there on the spot. I'm trying to use the basics. I'm not interested in the Server, or Time Scheduled stuff....just a simple dependable DVD+R back-up that's gonna work will be fine for me. But nope! Acronis has a potentially good program, but it really needs some overalling in many areas to tweak out the bugs.

    They could start at the DVD area, and include a Burn Speed option. I think the program may be burning way to fast. My NEC_3550 really lights up when this software kicks in. Include a Burn Speed option like (12x, 8x, 6x, 4x,). That probably would take care of the DVD Burn issue.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2006
  13. starsfan09

    starsfan09 Registered Member

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    Grover, I can't afford to buy my kid all these USB devices when she barely knows how to send Email. She's into clothes, make-up, and all the girl stuff. She can't even keep her room clean, let alone take care of $200 worth of USB External HD's.

    <snip>


    edited to remove software plug - Detox
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 24, 2006
  14. d.chatten

    d.chatten Registered Member

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    Then why not plug one of your USB drives into your kids system, backup your kids system, then unplug your USB drive from your kids system, isn't this what external USB drives are for, LOL.

    I have to agree that if Acronis included an option to sellect the burn speed for DVD media it would probably make the DVD backup feature more reliable.
     
  15. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    I agree it's not good, but I'm sorry I think you are overdoing things a bit here. By electing to do a restore you have already written off anything that was on your C: drive. So if it failed to read from the DVD that is a problem - and I think Acronis need to look at it, but I think you are confusing two issues here. Why, having decided that you wanted to throw away everything on your C: drive should it be a "catastrophe" if the C: drive doesn't exist any more.

    F
     
  16. bodgy

    bodgy Registered Member

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    I know rewritable media is more expensive than one time burn - but I have to say I keep 3 RW CD/DVD's around just for experimentation purposes - no teacup coasters that way.

    As Acronis have many new builds during a major versions lifetime, I now burn the rescue CD to rewritable as well. In fact I make an ISO of the file and then it is easy to just mount the ISO (using either MS's hard to find VCD tool or any of the others lurking on the web) drag and drop the new/updated files into the ISO - re-burn to RW.

    Just an idea.

    Colin
     
  17. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    You will be the one fixing her computer--so make it easy on yourself.

    One easy solution would be to perform a backup of her computer onto your own usb drive. Then copy her tib backup files onto DVD's (you control the burn speed). Using this method, the DVD backup/retore is much more reliable. Many of us have been using this copy/burn procedure for years.

    This type backup is often referred to on the forum as the "Two step" method. Prior to initiating the backup, change the options and use archive spanning which will enable you to choose what size you want the tib backup file to be. One common size would be to write in a "1492mb" size. Three tib backup files will fit onto one DVD. This is much faster and you don't have to "babysit" the backup. Don't forget to validate and test your backups.

    addendum: If you live near any of the major computer stores (CompUSA-BestBuy-CircuitCity-Staples, etc), you can usually find an external drive on sale starting at about $50. Or, if you have an extra hard drive, then buy a harddrive enclosure for about $38.
     
  18. starsfan09

    starsfan09 Registered Member

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    Yep, if you want to use the DVD Burner Back-Up method, then you'll definately have to burn it to the DVD using a "third party" program because Acronis hasn't solved the problem yet. After testing v3666, and going through 12 DVD's, I can't figure out what the problem is when you burn "Directly" to the DVD using the Acronis program.
    I'm calling them Monday, and talking directly to a Tech support agent, and requesting them to put in a "Speed selector" (12x, 10x, 8x, 6x, 4x) to let you select from. Who knows, ...this may actually be the problem. I really think it's burning to the disc at MAX speeds, and therefore causing the Read errors. When I back-up my home movies, I never burn at Max speeds because you usually have problems. ;)

    The reason I started this thread, and called Acronis Tech Support to let them know what's going is this. If someone NEW comes along, and downloads this v3666, and burns a Back-Up to a DVD, and then trys to Restore it (to see if this programs works)...they take a chance at totally deleting the C:/ partition. Then...Windows will not boot back up. You'll have a lot of people out there with No Operating System to boot up to. :shifty:

    I spent all day and night trying to figure out this Acronis DVD error crap. I'm not giving up on Acronis yet. It does have potential of being a damn good back-up program, but there's still some flaws that need to be panned out. There should be NO difference in making the Back-Up to an External, or Burning it straight to a DVD (Acronis' software). Well, the speed of course, but aside from that....there should be none.

    If you do decide to test the DVD burn option, and burn it directly to the DVD using the Acronis software....then be sure to click the "VALIDATE BACKUP ARCHIVE BEFORE RESTORATION" (Below)....because if you don't ...and then click on the "PROCEED" button you will wipe off the C:/ partition IF there is a Error reading the disc. Then you'll have no way of putting it back ..unless you reinstall Windows.

    IF I do break down and purchase a External for my daughter, then I'll get it from NewEgg.com. I'll get another WD Essential. I'm fond of those.
    BTW...what is the difference between the "Enclosures", and External USB?? Is the Enclosure faster?? If so, then how...because I believe they both hook up by means of USB 2.0. I'm thinking the only difference is...you can put your own HD in the Enclosure. :thumb:
     

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  19. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    Any recent IDE (ATA) drive in a removable (ATA) caddy-rack will be much faster than any USB2 drive! Nowadays, you can get very fast WD, Maxtor, or Seagate drives at bargain prices and even after buying a rack-kit it will be less expensive than buying a USB drive with like storage-capacity. A few months ago I got a WD 200GB (8MB cache) internal ATA drive for $69 after rebates and an aluminum caddy-rack for $29.

    The advantage of a USB2 drive is ease-of-installation and portability. In my case, I need to backup my laptop while on the road and backing up to DVDs is a real pain (even if ATI worked as advertised with DVDs, which as we know, it doesn't), so for that particular need I bought a small and very portable 80GB USB2 drive that doesn't require an external power supply or battery!
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2006
  20. Christopher_NC

    Christopher_NC Registered Member

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    Re: using an external USB hard drive enclosure, and other troubles (note, I created a new thread later about my own SATA and TI challenges):

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=136701

    I have an external hard drive enclosure from NewEgg, an Athena Power|EB-2318SU2S R , with a 250 GB SATA drive inside. Seemed like a fast option for backups -- and the hard drive worked fine as an internal SATA drive when it was my main internal drive. But, making image backups to that external hard drive, via USB II, using TI 9 build 3633, in Windows XP SP2, produced errors: the images consistently failed to validate. Only by using the Boot Mode of TI was I able to create a good backup image via USB II to my external drive. This may be off thread, and if so, I apologize, but I am in the midst of a long week of trying to get TI and Disk Director to work smoothly on my PC. Today, I upgraded to build 3666, hoping this might correct some problems, but, so far, it has not.

    I have tried workarounds, such as using smaller file sizes, and run Check Sum per another thread that has shown that indeed copying TI image size files to my external HD produces errors under Windows. Also ran Memtest, under Windows, overnight, with zero errors found.

    So, good luck, as it seems that not all drives work well in exteranal USB enclosures. Which surprised me, since my research didn't indicate that I'd have any problems using an external hard drive via USB with True Image. Did I just pick the wrong hardware combination?

    I plan to run this drive in SATA mode most of the time, but so far I haven't had any success getting it to run as an external SATA drive. Right now, even with a clean install of build 3666 ( uninstalled 3633 via Add Remove Programs prior to update ) when I boot with Rescue Disks or into Secure Zone, TI nor Disk Director recognize either of my hard drives. Two SATA drives running on a SIIG SATA controller card. So, while I would love to create a good backup to DVD, just in case, I now have learned that I'd best not do that, since doing so might overwrite my C:/drive during a restore.

    Since the burning speed seems critical to errors, would it make sense to use the 2 step backup process and burn discs from Roxio at 4x speed? Or, 8x speed?

    I moved my SATA drives to the SIIG HD CONTROLLER SIIG|SC-SA0012-S1 PCI card today, in an attempt to resolve my trouble connecting the external hard drive via SATA to the SIIG card. Boots fine, and OS selector allows me to go into XP, or, via Secure Zone, into DD or TI, but neither of them are able to find any hard drives.

    Perhaps, because the internal SATA drives are now seen as SCSI drives, I need to start over, and uninstall and reinstall all Acronis Programs? But, it doesn't give me a good feeling when I am removing my backup programs, to update them, or, to allow them to detect system settings and create viable Boot Disks. I have tried Re-Activating Recovery Manager, per another post, to try to correct this...thinking perhaps it would copy new system drivers, so that the Linux based Recovery Modes of TI and DD would run on my system.

    Any suggestions? I'm still pleased to have gone with Acronis, and these forums are a major reason. I also think that, if the Linux mode can work, as it has in my previous incarnation, just not to external SATA, it is a great feature, since Windows does go down at times. As others have said, there are a zillion hardware configurations out there, and, I have tried many experiments to get mine to work, but, so far, am not out of the woods.

    As I mentioned up front, I have started a new thread about this issue, since I realized after the fact that this was likely not the place to discuss all my issues. T

    Thanks for your assistence.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2006
  21. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    I seem to be missing something here. I keep reading comments expressing concern that TI has overwriten C:/ Isn't that what it is supposed to do ?

    A typical set up will have an operating drive or partition labelled as C: plus a second partition or drive for data. Images are made of C:/ so that at some future date a clean copy of C:/ can be restored. Doing this overwrites/replaces/destroys/eliminates/gets rid of/ removes/obliterates ....... C:/ and not be mistake but simply because that is how it works.

    Should the dvd then fail to restore to C:/ then that is another entirely different problem. But wiping out C:? is not a problem in a restore scenario.

    Now if restoring a data partition were to overwrite C:/ then I would be concerned.
     
  22. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    You are correct. The partition has to be destroyed to restore it. I believe it is deleted and then the image is actually restored to the unallocated space it left behind, it is not a piecemeal operation. That is why I usually select the "Validate Image before Restoring" box when doing a restore. I can understand the frustration of having the old partition blown away and the restore fails but that's how it has to work and it is not wrong.
     
  23. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Hello Christopher,

    In case you haven't done so, I recommend you download and run <Memtest 86+> for a few hours to check for faulty, overclocked or too aggressively timed memory. There should be zero errors reported throughout the run.

    Regards
     
  24. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    If copying large files to your SATA drive in an enclosure is giving checksum differences then it is most likely that you have a chipset that doesn't handle large files properly. Naturally, it could be a hardware fault but this is not an unknown problem with some chipsets. One thing you can do is to unplug all other USB devices that aren't essential and ensure you are plugging the drive into a rear connector since this reduces cable length to the drive (front USB connectors typically have an extra foot or so of cable).

    The 2-step process always make sense particularly since you can set the burn speed and use the burning programs "verify after burning" feature. Burning slower that either disks or drives maximum burn speed is recommended by some forum members. Direct burning to DVDs is not for me even if TI does get the bugs out of it. If you want to know why, it is because they are slow, require multiple disk swaps if archive spans DVDs and optical media is not as reliable as a HD. I do copy some backups to DVDs for an extra line of defence.

    Some add-on PCI SATA controller cards have given TI problems in the past and AFAIK the solution is for Acronis to provide a revision that supports the particular board. You are going to have to work with Acronis on that one if this is the case.

    Edited: Added comment about USB devices and rear connectors.
     
  25. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

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    Just to stick in my two cents worth.
    When testing your backups to the point of doing a restore, whatever the circumstances, my guiding principle is to always restore to a spare HD and then boot from it. If your backups pass this this ultimate test you have got your backups in order. If it fails you have not over written or blown away anything you need and you can calmly find out where the process went wrong and start again.

    Xpilot.
     
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