VPN can see what you are discussing?

Discussion in 'privacy technology' started by Holysmoke, Aug 29, 2016.

  1. Holysmoke

    Holysmoke Registered Member

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  2. deBoetie

    deBoetie Registered Member

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    This is something of a false dichotomy. Some who care about anonymity mix VPN and Tor in various ways. And also separate personas & operating systems as discussed in the article. This is likely to offer better protection than any service on its own.

    It's true that if you have a single VPN, and you cannot trust the VPN, then it's little protection. It is not true, as a blanket statement that they could see what you and the other party are discussing, because that may be protected by transport encryption and other application level obfuscation (padding, traffic levelling). And of course, if the traffic on the VPN is Tor or another mix of VPNs, then they can't see very much.
     
  3. Holysmoke

    Holysmoke Registered Member

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    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2016
  4. Minimalist

    Minimalist Registered Member

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    Traffic is encrypted from VPN if you use secure connection (https...). So in this case they don't see a content of traffic but do see both IPs. They can't automatically identify you or who you're talking with (through IP) but they could store log files with this information and could give them to police in case you are under investigation (and police provides warrant to VPN provider). Police can identify you with those logs by getting information about you from your ISP.
     
  5. Holysmoke

    Holysmoke Registered Member

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    if they know my IP and more, what good does it do to pay them anonymously?


    I checked doileak.com and they show my isp DNS while using my VPN with OPENvpn and dnscrypt with a server in another country.

    I think I will try one of the VPN's from mirmir's test that didn't leak but how do I pay them anonymously if that even helps?

    bitcoin isn't anonymous
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2016
  6. Minimalist

    Minimalist Registered Member

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    They can't tie your IP with your real name if you don't disclose it some other way.
     
  7. Starlights

    Starlights Registered Member

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    Use two VPNs :) (chained/cascaded) based in different countries for additional peace of mind.

    This actually will be more helpful that it appears to be (at the cost of slower speed) since the second (terminal) VPN will only see the details and IP of the first VPN provider, and with so many users using that IP, it will be very difficult to identify a single user - that is, if cross border enquiry can be set up in the first place...
     
  8. Starlights

    Starlights Registered Member

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    How about a store-bought credit card (visa/master card), bought with cash in a location away from your residence?
     
  9. Holysmoke

    Holysmoke Registered Member

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    when they hand the IP over don't they just go to the ISP and get the name?
     
  10. Minimalist

    Minimalist Registered Member

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    Yes, police with warrant can, but VPN provider alone, can't.
    If you want to improve privacy use instead VPN chain or VPN + Tor.
     
  11. Holysmoke

    Holysmoke Registered Member

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    so why do ppl pay anonymously? it doesn't offer any additional protection?

    I guess you are saying paying anonymous is useless, only vpn chain or vpn + tor makes a difference

    I paid for my VPN with bitcoin but later found out that is far from anonymous.
     
  12. Starlights

    Starlights Registered Member

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    Both - as each of these could become a weak link in the chain. Additionally, you would also need to harden your computer and the browser, test for VPN leaks etc.

    VPN Chains + Cash Cards would give you better protection. Remember, each of these are a link, and you need to secure all links for better protection.
     
  13. Palancar

    Palancar Registered Member

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    Whoever told you that Bitcoin is NOT anonymous might be confusing you. Just like regular internet surfing, BTC transactions CAN be anonymous or not depending upon how you implement the transaction.

    note: anonymous is defined by this post as not be traceable back to YOU via the transaction.

    Its not unlike your regular internet surfing. In both cases if you don't know what you are doing your ISP and any IP's used will always point straight back at YOU. By employing somewhat simple counter measures all TRACE is quite easily broken and will never come back to you. You will have to decide IF such measures are worth it to you. Clearly, for some the concerns don't seem to exist. This is easy stuff for me but I am completely vested in the BTC environment and all my ducks are already sitting in a row. This makes things simple and "one click" whenever I need to anonymously dispatch coins. It involves these "block diagram" steps to have them ready.

    1. Buy coins, place in a wallet, and then dark web tumble them to new addresses in a fashion where there is NO link to the original address (subject of another thread but simple to do once you understand commercial tumblers in DW).

    2. NEVER use a btc address more than once

    3. Always connect using vpn's and tor in combo, and LEARN how to make sure you don't have a rogue exit node watching anything. If you are wise enough to complete the btc transaction on hidden servers there is NO exit node, which is what I normally do.

    So, buy anonymously (not entirely but mostly - a bank is ok by me). Transfer my new coins to new wallet and then tumble to virgin wallets (all encrypted and on hardware wallets for me). Now you have untraceable coins sitting and ready to be dispatched in "one click" when you want to buy something.

    Another picture. Say I am Bill Smith and I buy bitcoins at a bank using localbitcoins. They don't know I am buying coins using cash, but they could scan my face and know I do, who cares? Within a few minutes there is no trace of where those coins go, and when I ultimately dispatch them or invest them in long term savings wallets there is no trace to Bill Smith. Now if I use them to buy something that has my real name on it, then that operator error is on me. LOL!
     
  14. Minimalist

    Minimalist Registered Member

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    Paying anonymously is not useless. Let's say you connect two vpns into chain. First VPN provider can see your real IP but doesn't see your final connection destination (it can only see your connection to 2nd VPN server). 2nd VPN provider can see your final destination but doesn't see where it came from (it's source IP is 1st VPN server). If you paid to 2nd VPN provider with your real name they know who is establishing connection and VPN chain is useless. That's just one example, why you should pay anonymously.
     
  15. Stefan Froberg

    Stefan Froberg Registered Member

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    Sure. Of course they can see all that if they want to. And let's face it, all those claims of various VPN provides that they don't log anything is absolute BS. At the minimum they will log your time of connection, your source IP, and the destination IP you are contacting. Probably also how much stuff you transfer so they can pinpoint bandwith hoggers, unless they have set an hard limit for every user.

    But like others here have mentioned, chaining different bitcoin payable VPN vendors with maybe Tor added to mix is one way to cloak your true IP.

    If you want to go extra mile you can, at least in some countries, buy prepaid mobile internet connection sim card. With plain old cash. No traces.

    So go on and take a ride with your mobile laptop + anonymous prepaid mobile 3G + tor + two or more VPNs. Im sure that even NSA would have a hellish time tracking you.
    ;)

    P.S: And it goes without mentioning, you use Linux with that laptop
     
  16. Holysmoke

    Holysmoke Registered Member

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    I am going to add another VPN and use 2 of them. Do I put the one I trust the least in first or second position?
     
  17. Palancar

    Palancar Registered Member

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    The answer to that question depends upon what you are doing post-exit node. These communication tunnels are nicely depicted with the mental picture of a copper pipe. Your ISP will always see you enter the pipe. Your post exit node site will see you come out of the pipe. The trick is to obfuscate the path so the two ends cannot be connected together. You MUST make certain that the actors on the two ends cannot communicate and monitor too well or they can establish the identity of the actor (YOU).

    My take is that my ISP very clearly knows who I am and therefore my "real name" is already a given. That said; I would not worry too much about them seeing me go in the pipe mentioned above. I would do everything reasonably possible to proclude them ever knowing where I exit that pipe. Make sense?
     
  18. Holysmoke

    Holysmoke Registered Member

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    yes, thanks
     
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