VMWare Player vs FDISR

Discussion in 'FirstDefense-ISR Forum' started by WilliamP, Dec 10, 2006.

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  1. WilliamP

    WilliamP Registered Member

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    This may be a crazy question but here goes. I have FDISR and love it. I have read from time to time about virtualization. What is the difference between running a program in a snapshot or in a virtual machine?
     
  2. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    And I'm wondering what happens if you add a VirtualMachine program to a FirstDefense Snapshot?! o_O (I'm serious; most of you probably already know this, but MS is now offering one of their VM programs for free and I'm considering it; will VM and FD play nicely together?)

    Acadia
     
  3. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    Well, when you run Windows in a VM, you basically run an operating system inside of an operating system.
    Which is nice when you develop software and need to fix the bugs that crashes the system. It's faster to restart a VM than to reboot the system.
    A snapshot represents the current status of your system and is intended to easily revert to that same status whenever you need.
     
  4. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    I want to have a play with this myself. I did fire up the MS Virtual PC 2007 Beta and did have a virtual machine running. Of course it was running in a FDISR snapshot. Why not?? Didn't have time to do a lot with it, but it is cool as hell to watch a machine boot in a window on your desktop.

    Pete
     
  5. sukarof

    sukarof Registered Member

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    I concur with Peter2150. I did try MS virtual machine last spring or something and it played very well in a couple of FDISR snapshots, and so does VMware. As far as I know it is only software that does something to the MBR that can cause conflict with FDISR. I have not yet encountered any software that doesn't work well with FDISR (and I do test quite a lot of software)
     
  6. Meriadoc

    Meriadoc Registered Member

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    FDISR+VMWare Workstation and Player work fine here.
    Peter :
    Yes kinda cool, I've had a few people here who don't know vms perplexed at this:)
     

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  7. tobacco

    tobacco Frequent Poster

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    Okay.

    Now that it appears it can be done, can someone enlighten me/us as to the possibilities/ benefits of doing so?.

    Thanks
     
  8. WilliamP

    WilliamP Registered Member

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    What I would like to know is the differences in system vulnerability FDISR VS VM.
     
  9. Meriadoc

    Meriadoc Registered Member

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    tobacco :
    VMware is just another program, a tool I use to make vms for what I'm doing at the time - its just another program that works in FD if you want that, but on my work machine I don't have FD.
    Heres some appliances : http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/
     
  10. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    If this is a question for you, then probably there are no benefits that you aren't aware of.
    What I mean to say is: When something is possible, it doesn't mean it is valuable for everyone.
     
  11. tobacco

    tobacco Frequent Poster

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    I'm just trying to grasp this. Could you list some examples, scenarios of how by adding this in a snapshot would allow someone to do this and that, etc.
     
  12. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    I can think of a developer who tests a driver that has serious bugs.
    Instead of rebooting the system after each crash, he restarts the VM and can startover.
     
  13. Meriadoc

    Meriadoc Registered Member

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    People use them for all sorts of testing, say make 20 small vms and put a different av or firewall etc in each. You could do the same with FD but I think not as many different ones as you can with a vm which is only restricted by your space, plus FD is different as you can also recover from a problem.
    Or test something in any OS, but thats not only what they can be used for, the appliances will give you a good idea of what can be done. The scope of use is pretty much down to the user.
    If you so wish you could keep a few vms in a snapshot maybe one vm could be used to surf with even and keep your os safe.
     
  14. tobacco

    tobacco Frequent Poster

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    Thanks for the explanations!.
     
  15. WilliamP

    WilliamP Registered Member

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    Ok guys, how about my question? What are the differences of system vulnerability with FDISR vs VM. Is your computer as protected in a snapshot as in a VM?
     
  16. Meriadoc

    Meriadoc Registered Member

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    They're similar I suppose, VMWare is like industrial strength virtualization, a vm can be setup to revert back and undo any changes, as you can boot to a different snapshot in FD.
    But you can do alot more with VMWare - you can move a virtual machine to somewhere else on the same computer, or another computer. Other users can share a vm but you could set it so it cannot be modified, or you could share by making a clone of the vm.
    You can take snapshots of a virtual machine at any time which preserves the state of all vms and the vm's power state, powered on, powered off, or suspended.
    You can take a new snapshot or revert to any previous snapshot at any time. When you revert you discard all changes made to the vm since the most recent snapshot. Multiple snapshots allow you to preserve different states of the same vm.

    - I'd say it does its job of immediate recovery.

    Here's a screen of Workstation, you can see Xandros os and XPPRO os vm are 'paused' also some options on the home tab.
     

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    Last edited: Dec 13, 2006
  17. WilliamP

    WilliamP Registered Member

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    Thank you Meriadoc. If I understand correctly,my system with FD is as safe as with VM? I like that.
     
  18. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    I don't think that VM relies on the security features of the host computer. So, it's as safe as you make it yourself by taking security measures.
    If rollback is all you want to fulfill your security needs, then you are correct.
     
  19. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    YOu are right. I am playing with VMware (really like it) and it pestered the hell out of me until I installed KIS in it. Kind of cool to be running KIS 6.0 inside a machine running KAV.

    Pete
     
  20. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    The VM ware seems to be the way to go.
    I tried the SVS with some success but some issues too

    Some questions: how secure is the VM if file sharing between Native OS and VM is enabled?

    If I install FDISR in the VM could I import snapshots from the native system and use them.

    Ditto for say IFW?

    Can I reboot from floppy to VM?

    Has anybody had issues with XP activation key on multiple VMs?

    What si the difference between VMWare player and VMWare workstation:
    Do I have to pay for 5 licences?
    IsVMWareplayer a single user fully functional VM install?

    I think I might really like this for surfing/exploring/testing and keep the native os nice and calm and settled

    I have tried to compare MS VPC and Parrallels and VMWare: Except for possible $$ issues VMWare looks the most complete.

    Is it possible to keep FDISR snapshots inside the VMWare?

    IF I make changes to the VM: some I want to keep and some I want to lose after a session; how does that work?

    Is there a manual for the technically less ept :eek:

    Thanks.

    (hey Meriadoc how come he Scarlets crunch us one week then fall apart in front of the black wave?? :D )
     
  21. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    From my limited experience

    Haven't tried nor do I really see a need to put FDISR inside a vm

    It looked like IFD / IFW / stuff from bart might have run, but I didn't have the right drivers for my DVD so that didn't work. Will try that again in a bit.

    I believe you can reboot from a floppy, I know you can from a CD

    I believe VMplayer will just run VM machines created else where. You need VM workstation to actually build VM machines.

    I did try MS Virtual PC 2007 beta without much success.

    Yes you do need Operating system licenses to run the machines.

    I don't see a need to keep FDISR snapshots in them.

    The what is saved, what is lost is not really quite the same. Barring the crash scenario you close down the virtual machine just like your computer.

    There is a snapshot feature that allows you to keep snapshot of a system state and revert to them, but it looks like they chew up loads of disk space.

    Remember is you create a machine with a 10gig drive thats a 10g file on your hard disk.

    Wilbertnl If you are listening, this is why I have those huge disk.:D

    Pete
     
  22. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    I'm not sure if you would be able to activate the preboot screen?
    If not, then you would not be able to change snapshots...
     
  23. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    @Wilbert & Peter &Meriadoc:

    Have you guys actually coughed up $180? yet
    Just trying to cheat a bit: if I just load XP, then install FDISR, enable folder sharing: then import a snapshot and direct boot, then wipe other snapshots?
    The ultimate test for FDISR: own the virtual drive :eek:
    But:
    Wilbert: spooky: mindreader :eek:

    I'll ask on the terabyte forums if IFW or BING will be able to write to virtual discs or manage them?

    PS:my XP cd says OEM Product: will that work on VM for install.
    Regards.

    :D :D :D
    LOL: look here: http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=303
    Gotta love terabyte.

    Heh: maybe dont even have to activate windows ??
    Longboard.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2006
  24. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    I just love to walk paths of logic. :D
     
  25. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Still not sure why you'd bother with FDISR in a VM. Just build a 2nd VM machine.

    BTW THere is $50 off the price of VM Workstation and I am extremely close to warming up the credit card.

    Pete
     
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