Users Still Not Willing to Abandon Windows XP

Discussion in 'other software & services' started by hogndog, Apr 8, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Wild Hunter

    Wild Hunter Former Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Posts:
    1,375
    And many care too much about imagined "ultimate motives".

    I don't really care.

    And, I'm not some kind of anti-capitalism nutjob, so I wouldn't care if the "ultimate motives" were about money and selling latest products.
     
  2. Wild Hunter

    Wild Hunter Former Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Posts:
    1,375
    A dangerous route of comparison (if too elaborated). lol
     
  3. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Posts:
    10,208
    .

    Let us not assume. This is not a fact.
    This is marketing. Regular users get equally infected anyhow.

    And when running results, you should compare SP2/3 and not older versions of XP from 10 years back, when the computing reality was completely different. In the modern era, with the same threat landscape so to speak, there's no difference what you give the regular user.

    Mrk
     
  4. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2008
    Posts:
    10,239
    Location:
    Lloegyr
    You don't need much imagination to be able to distinguish between marketing & factual reality.

    Stamping your foot on the floor & sticking your fingers in your ears doesn't work so well either.

    It is not a matter of being anti-capitalist or a 'nut job' or any combination of the above. Honestly, try & focus on the debate before you open your box of straw men . At the end of the day this is about XP being too successful, the economics of updating hardware to run later versions of Windows & MS concern about the failing sales of Win 8.
     
  5. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    12,111
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
  6. acr1965

    acr1965 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2006
    Posts:
    4,995
    Thanks for the info.
     
  7. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Posts:
    10,208
    No it does not, and I would not expect anything from the vendor's official blog. As someone crunching numbers for a living, the statistics do not tell me much without elaborate explanations into tiny details.

    For example, business vs. home sector. Is XP more used at home or businesses? Where is it more likely to get infected?

    Prevalence per country/region - is there a difference based on region?

    Overall total uptime - infections can be cumulative. For example, an XP machine with a lifetime of 5 years vs. a Windows 7 machine with a lifetime of 2.5 years. If Windows 7 has half the rate of XP, it is effectively the SAME one. This is the big one.

    How did infections come about? What if 93.7% infections were caused by deliberate downloads and/or phishing, then the OS architecture plays no part in the scheme.

    Who scanned the machines and how?

    Who compiled the results?

    Usage patterns, etc.

    Without ALL of these, analyzing numbers is meaningless.

    To give you a real-life example: male vs. female drivers.
    On paper, men make more accidents, right?

    They also drive more, longer distances, greater speeds.
    You cannot compare an urban commuter with a highway one.
    You cannot compare bumper scratches with total losses.
    What gets reported and what does not.

    What is the standard error in these results?


    In fact, I'm gonna write an article on this one.

    But for me to be convinced by numbers, well ... it takes a bit.

    Cheers,
    Mrk
     
  8. Wild Hunter

    Wild Hunter Former Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Posts:
    1,375
    Mrkvonic, you are uninformed!

    Don't be ashamed, it happens to everyone at some point. LOL!

    Please, download and read the 146-page Security Intelligence Report Volume 13 with all the details concerning what we are talking about.

    http://www.microsoft.com/security/sir/default.aspx

    PDF Download

    Read it and then make an informed criticism. Thank you.
     
  9. Wild Hunter

    Wild Hunter Former Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Posts:
    1,375
    And btw, there is a 27-page special edition correlating "more than 80 socio-economic indicators across 105 countries including literacy rate, Rule of Law and broadband usage with malware data from existing Microsoft Security Intelligence Reports".

    You can download this one here:

    http://aka.ms/securityatlas

    Read this one and the other (and research older ones too!), don't skip them. Thanks!
     
  10. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Posts:
    10,208
    One source, from Microsoft itself.
    You gotta be kidding, right.

    You can't sell manure to an outhouse operator ...

    Your joke at the beginning of the post is nice, but it won't work.

    I have been in the academy, and these past ten years in the industry. Believe me, I know all about numbers and how to make them look like anything you want. I can make Stalin look like an angel on Earth or the most hated person.

    Mrk
     
  11. Sully

    Sully Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2005
    Posts:
    3,719
    Yeah, winME is the biggest turd of the bunch. But, the point was only that its the user and thier habits that make or break security IMHO.

    I quit a lot of my "tech support" for family and friends, because every computer they buy they end up getting infected with something. I quit trying to teach them and quit installing security applications, because none of it helps. The majority just "keep on clicking" and develop problems.

    Of the around 130 people that over the years I have frequently helped (mostly for free) I am down to a couple dozen. Only ones left are the ones that at least try to learn what I show them. It also means I only visit them once or twice a year rather than monthly, or more.

    I might be jaded of course because of having to fix so many machines over the years. Incidientily I always get a good chuckle over UAC. I prescribe to the notion that it was (and is) a tool to get programmers to make userland code, a nag tool as it were, rather than a full blown security tool. Thats what they originally said. But either way, I have seen no decrease in those that develop problems frequently. With UAC or without, you can't fix stupid I guess.

    Sul.
     
  12. wat0114

    wat0114 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Posts:
    4,063
    Location:
    Canada
    You are right, imho. And so is Mrk :)

    I am 100% confident I can continue, if I want, to use XP looong(sic) after MS stops supporting it, with MS office 2010, and the few other apps I would need and remain just as malware free with the setup I have in place as I would with my Win 7 setup or anything newer I might decide to buy down the road.
     
  13. new2security

    new2security Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2008
    Posts:
    517

    Does this suggest that home users of Windows 7 will only get security patches until 2015? Little confused here - the case with XP : home users & enterprise customers are getting security patches until 2014. My previous (?) understanding was that ALL Windows 7 users will be able to receive security patches until 2020.
     
  14. wat0114

    wat0114 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Posts:
    4,063
    Location:
    Canada
    I'm not sure, it matters little to me anyway, but taking a look at your security setup in your sig, you can easily maintain a secure setup without relying on MS patches.
     
  15. new2security

    new2security Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2008
    Posts:
    517
    To my best knowledge XP's Extended Support will end 2014 and until that EOL date, everybody will be able to get security patches from Microsoft - home users and enterprise customers. If the same policy doesn't apply to Windows 7 (where the Extended Support 2020 seemingly exists only for commercial customers) I admit I'm somewhat worried because I'm not 100% confident that my setup will be able to thwart exploits that are based on 0 day system vulnerabilities.

    I've mentioned it before but like to say it again Wat: Excellet setup btw! :)
     
  16. Wild Hunter

    Wild Hunter Former Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Posts:
    1,375
    Do you have a slight idea of the scale and scope of the telemetry data MS has access to? In order to produce such ample reports...

    Didn't you think for a second about the fact that several governments and worldwide expertise take such comprehensible reports from MS researchers really seriously?

    And btw, we are talking about Microsoft, not a random barker.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
  17. Wild Hunter

    Wild Hunter Former Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Posts:
    1,375
    Nope. Your "previous" understanding is correct.
     
  18. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Posts:
    10,208
    Mainstream support does not refer to security patches but products, like media center etc - these will end by 2015 and new versions won't be available, like XP did not get latest directx, windows media player, internet explorer, etc. But security patches should be there till 2020.

    That's my understanding.

    Look at the table explaining it.

    Mrk
     
  19. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Posts:
    10,208
    To answer your questions:

    1. Yes
    2. No

    Mrk
     
  20. new2security

    new2security Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2008
    Posts:
    517
    Wild hunter & Mrkvonic : That's reassuring. But then what does "Extended support is only available for commercial customers." imply?
     
  21. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Posts:
    10,208
    To the best of my understanding, if you pay for extended support, yu will get actual new software and non-security related development and patches for that platform rather than just security bug fixes.

    But this is my understanding, not necessarily THE truth.

    Cheers,
    Mrk
     
  22. Wild Hunter

    Wild Hunter Former Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Posts:
    1,375
    AFAIK, this refers to the product's nature.

    Windows being heavily used by commercial customers is one of the MS products for which "Security updates will be available through the end of the Extended Support phase".

    See here: http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifepolicy
     
  23. new2security

    new2security Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2008
    Posts:
    517
    If that's the correct definition, I'm satisfied.

    I still don't think they're clear enough how they're distinguishing between Business+devel software and Consumer products.

    From the link:

    "17. What is the Security Update policy?

    Microsoft has not changed its Security Update policy:

    Business and Development software

    Security updates will be available through the end of the Extended Support phase (five years of Mainstream Support plus five years of the Extended Support) at no additional cost for most products. Security updates will be posted on the Microsoft Update Web site during both the Mainstream and the Extended Support phase.

    Consumer and Multimedia products

    Security updates will be available through the end of the Mainstream Support phase."
     
  24. Wild Hunter

    Wild Hunter Former Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Posts:
    1,375
  25. CloneRanger

    CloneRanger Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2006
    Posts:
    4,978
    Users Still Not Willing to Abandon Windows XP

    That'll be me then :D

    I've no good reason to as it does what i want/need. And even Without ANY updates, not even SP3, only SP2, combined with OS settings & FF addons & settings, together with a few nice security Apps, it's safer than others with default Vista/W7/W8. They get infected around the world Every day :p
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.