used MBR disk in error

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by frankb_c, May 26, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. frankb_c

    frankb_c Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Posts:
    28
    have a HP 7360 Pavillion with winXP pro MCE 2005
    made the required rescue DVDs (2)
    all up-to-date with Microsoft including SP3.
    All up-to-date with virus AVG.
    repair the MBR using http://www.acronis.com/files/support/mbrautowrite_en.exe

    I was making labels for Cds to file.
    I had the MBR disk in cd drive and like
    push here dummy I pressed ENTER.



    After doing this I get this error when booting up:

    Invalid Operating System!


    posted this on msfn (Microsoft Furum network)


    I messed up on friday.
    I was going to label a disk in the drive.
    The disk was an MBR repair disk from Acronis (I think)
    and I pressed the enter key
    Like push here dummy.
    result is Hd not recognised. sort of.

    black screen with invalid operating system!
    Did have a floppy with the ntldr,ntdetect.com.boot.ini,and hal.dll
    which when I enter takes to the login screen and stops.

    I tried the CD winXP PRO from my girl friend and when I get to R/console
    No hd recognized. no fixmbr, fixboot, fixcfg/rebuild,

    same results with 6 pack floppy rescue disks.

    WD320 gb HD. did a test quick and full with floppy and came back as no errors found (Note the keyboard on my Girl Friends Computer writes only é for question mark.)

    I tried the linux Knoppix, with testdisk 6 and it reads the HD along with the files. Now if only I can figure out how to be a root administrator than maybe I can change the hal.dll from the i386 folder to the system32 and maybe get back on.
    This is a learning curve.

    Bought Power Suite 2008 PRO and this went fine till it would tell me that my windows OS is on D:
    not so. its on C: along with all other programs (NTFS). D: has the HP recovery files only (fat 32)
    Sent them an email, and they replied that they have given my problem to their teckkies and if and when they have a fix they will advise. (Nice reply, like .... out to lunch... will be back... sometime.

    So went to Microsoft and found that there was a Microsoft Diagnostic and recovery toolset which creates through a ISO a CD ERD command. Which I downloaded and tried. It goes and does it thing only to pop up with message The usage period for this ERD has expired. Like maybe 10 minutes. OUCH! I download again and do the CD and this time pop-up The usage period for this boot image has expired.
    This is the link... it does say 30 day evaluation. Right
    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details...;displaylang=en

    How can I get and where else a ERD command download to make a valid CD

    reading up on nLite to make a set of CDs

    Please, can anyone help me get back on É
     
  2. jonyjoe81

    jonyjoe81 Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2007
    Posts:
    829
    First of all, If you do have a MBR problem that is easily fixed. But for some reason you are having problems getting into the recovery console to run the FIXMBR/FIXBOOT command. The MBR is entirely seperate from your "system partition", so your system partition is safe unless you start changing files on it etc.

    Unless you have a dual boot I wouldn't worry about the NTLDR,NTIDETECT or other system files those will always be in there correct place.

    What caught my attention is when you mentioned sometime about your windows being in drive "D" when you know it's on "C". First you need to verify this a little more. There are 2 places on the hard drive that store the Drive letters. One is the "Partition ID drive letter" and the other is in the "mounted devices drive letter". In order for you to get a "positive boot" you need both of these to have the same drive letter. In your case it will be "C". There are only 2 programs that can check the drive letters on a non-booting hard drive "a bartpe cd with the savepart plugin" this is a free cd you can make that will allow you to check both partition ID drive letter and the mounted device drive letter. And theres "paragon partition manager version 9.0", this is a bootcd that has a "boot corrector" that can check and change drive letters.

    Before you try any other repairs, verify your drive letters.

    Below is a demo of an old "boot corrector" (2 years old version) it doesn't boot up all the latest computers, but you can try it and see if it will work on yours. It's a quick way to check the drive letters.
    http://www.freedownloadmanager.org/downloads/JustBoot_Boot_Corrector_38938_p/
     
  3. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,634
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    frankb_c,

    I'd try fdisk /mbr from a Win98 floppy. Sounds like the xfdisk CD from Acronis did more to the MBR than it should have. It's usually reliable.
     
  4. frankb_c

    frankb_c Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Posts:
    28
    Jonyjoe

    The program loads and than just stops with nothing. Have to do a Ctrl/Alt/Del to get back or reboot. tried tried same results.



    I did download a program Bootmaster V5.0

    click on F5 (Build Virtual MBR) and I get

    first disk is my D: drive (No Name) Fat 32 which has the rescue HP recovery directories. LBA 63

    Second disk is C: drive (HP PAVILLION) LBA 17848215

    and a third one which (new volume) as LBA 625121280

    So far so good. To do the F2 accept MBR gotta pay 34.95 which I did.

    F6 to make C: drive active and than F2 to
    write new partition table to disk y/n Y

    Press F12 to create a log. Bombs. Will try through floppy instead of CD.
    but I think the same results as its supposed to write it to Z: drive (default drive) and nothing there.

    but when I reboot after removing the CD back to Invalid operating system

    Brian
    went back in as this at least gets me a DOS prompt and used the Fdisk/mbr with win98 diskette. That just came back to prompt.


    Ring around the table?


    At least Im getting some input that I can try.
    Thank you.
     
  5. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Posts:
    6,482
    Location:
    California
    There was another case a while back where the user tried a whole bunch of different repairs to fix a problem and ended up with a non-standard MBR. One of the repair attempts was using the Acronis "fix MBR" program. The MBR that ended up on the drive would only boot to an OS on the first partition. If you set the second or third partition Active (it was a multi-boot system), it would error. Resetting the MBR back to the MS standard fixed the problem.

    Do you have the hard drive controller drivers for your computer? If not, you should be able to download them. Then, put them on a floppy, press F6 when you boot the XP CD and add them in so XP can see the drive. Then you should be able to use the standard fixmbr command.

    If you have a Vista DVD available, it would probably include the drivers. You could go into the Repair Mode Command Prompt and run the bootrec /FixMbr command.
     
  6. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,634
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    frankb_c,

    Yes, that's all you do see. But I assume your OS didn't boot when you removed the floppy.

    In another thread, a member received the "Invalid Operating System" message after using the Acronis xfdisk CD.

    MudCrab, do you know where this error is coming from? I'm no clearer after searching Google.
     
  7. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Posts:
    6,482
    Location:
    California
    The Invalid Operating System message was in the MBR code in the case to which I'm referring. I assume it is also in the MBR in this case and I suspect the MBR is what is causing the problem as the symptoms seem to be the same.
     
  8. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,634
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    MudCrab that is a tremendous observation. I just examined the boot code of four MBRs. fdisk /mbr, Standard MBR from BING and fixmbr from WinXP each had error codes of..

    Error loading OS
    Invalid partition table
    Missing OS

    The error code for xfdisk from Acronis was..

    Invalid OS
    Invalid partition table

    So Invalid OS is unique to xfdisk but frankb_c ran fdisk /mbr and his computer still doesn't boot.

    frankb_c, what error message do you see now?
     
  9. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Posts:
    6,482
    Location:
    California
    I would verify that the MBR code is actually correct (I use DD for this). It's possible that it's not being overwritten or the wrong drive is being changed (if there are multiple hard drives).

    Since the error message is in the MBR, the wrong MBR is still on the drive or the wrong drive is trying to boot. I don't see how it could be anything else.

    The original problem was that that MBR code wouldn't boot an OS from any partition but the first one. In this case, the Windows partition is number two. So... the error and no booting.

    Getting a standard Windows MBR on the drive should fix the problem.
     
  10. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,634
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    I just tested this on a dual boot computer. The second WinXP was active. I used the Acronis xfdisk CD, checked the MBR and it was the xfdisk MBR, and the second WinXP booted normally.

    These things aren't easy.
     
  11. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Posts:
    6,482
    Location:
    California
    No, they're often not. Perhaps there's a problem with the boot sector hand-off.

    In the original case, many repair procedures had been used so the resulting system was in a state far beyond anything remotely normal. However, the last problem was the MBR error and fixing the MBR fixed the problem. The xfdisk MBR may act differently on different systems or disk configurations.

    Just the fact that the MBR didn't get overwritten means something odd is happening.
     
  12. frankb_c

    frankb_c Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Posts:
    28
    MudCrab / Brian K
    Your on the right track, where is the train?

    Only have one Hard Drive. WDC 320 Gb.

    Partitioned as (NTFS) C: drive with all programs including Windows, (Like everything)

    D: partitioned by HP (FAT32).as recovery partition, nothing else on this drive.

    There is a remnant of a drive with 8 mb. left with no name and I cannot do anything with it. So for 8 mg. just left it alone.

    Back to Invalid Operating system.

    How do I get this Acronis xfdisk, where to download, and I can make a CD.
    I'll try anything.

    from my observation through Bootmaster program
    The program picks D: drive as the operating system drive.
    It sees C: drive

    Without repairing the MBR on C: drive I am no further ahead.

    Is there a work-around with Acronis to get to reload the MBR and than have
    C: drive recognized.

    I can see that your both trying, and sure appreciate the time and effort.
    What can I do to help?

    I did do a back-up HD complete C: drive.
    Done with OneButton Back-up.

    I'm using my girl friend computer in the meantime.
     
  13. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,634
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    That's the CD that stuffed your computer.

    Do you still see the "Invalid Operating System" message?
     
  14. jonyjoe81

    jonyjoe81 Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2007
    Posts:
    829
    That 8mb partition (actually about 7mb) in you hard drive is a partition that is created automatically when the first partition on your hard drive is not an active primary partition. The only way to get rid of it is to convert the first partition into an active primary then merge it with the 7mb partition.

    If you don't have a bartpe, make one and make sure you add the "savepart" plugin into the creation. As long as you have your windows xp installation cd, you can make one.

    You need to verify your drive letters. Mainly the "partition ID drive letter". The "mounted devices drive letter" in the registry will always be the same. Both of these drive letters need to match. The savepart plugin will show you both of these drive letters.

    If the drive letters check good, then you might want to merge the first partition with the 7mb partition and then try to redo the restoration.

    If the "mounted devices drive letter is wrong" then you can use regedit from the bartpe and change it.

    If the "partition ID drive letter is wrong", then the only way to fix that is with a "boot corrector".
     
  15. frankb_c

    frankb_c Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Posts:
    28
    jonyjoe81

    got as far as making a bartPE CD.
    Will this get me under windows, or DOS?
    Have not tried yet. it will be tomorrow only.

    Savepart, will WEB search, what is latest ver. #

    I seem to recall when in Disk management that that partition was empty. Because, I thought Oh well can always put some a zipped file there and than delete or use as a temp.

    Partition drive letters? Went into the BIOS and have
    First Channel Device 0 WDC3200-JS-6
    First Channel Device 1 none
    Second Channel Device 0 none
    Second Channel Device 1 none
    Third Channel 0 HP DVD
    Third Channel 1 DVD WR DRU-820

    in Explorer From "back-up" copy of Drive.
    A: floppy Drive through USB.
    C: is System/programs
    D: is when I put a stick into USB port
    E: is Recovery
    F & G DVD/CD
    HIJK SD readers.
    L: is small 8 mb

    Guess, I have to get the Savepart first to check.
     
  16. jonyjoe81

    jonyjoe81 Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2007
    Posts:
    829
    this is where you get the latest "savepart" plugin. It's official name is partition saving.
    http://www.partition-saving.com/

    It's not easy to use but it's the only free way to check the "partition ID drive letter" that I know of.

    When you bootup the bartpe
    1.)press the "go" button/programs/partition-saving (this will open the program).
    2.)next choose "update windows2000/xp/vista registry" doubleclick on it.
    3.)next doubleclick on the "disk number 0" this is usually the hard drive that has your partitions.
    4.)next click on the partition that has your system (make a note of the drive letter, this is your mounted device drive letter) In your installation it should be "c"
    5.)the next screen is blue and has directorys, here choose the "WINDOWS" directory and doubleclick on it.
    6.)On next screen just double click on the partition shown.
    7.)It'll take you back to the screen on step 4, doubleclick on the "C" partition.
    8.)Finally your in the "drive letter to affect this partition" box. This is where it will show you the "partition ID drive letter" in your case it needs to be "C".

    That 7.8mb partition is used to store hard drive information. Some of my hard drives have them, but usually on my newer hard drives I always make the first partition active primary so I don't get that small partition.
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/archive/index.php/t-62131.html

    new update - "savepart" is now available as a standalone ISO file. It no longer requires a bartpe. Just download the file that says "spartiso.zip" and use nero or imgburn to burn the ISO to a CD. It boots up with freedos and just type savepart at the command prompt. Boots up faster than under the bartpe.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2008
  17. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2005
    Posts:
    2,318
    Hi frankb_c,

    I see you are having a rather rough ride :thumbd: .

    Have you at any stage made an Arconis backup image of your harddrive ?
    If you have, boot from the Acronis recovery CD and restore the whole disk. Make sure that you select the whole disk so that all the boxes including the MBR are selected.

    If you have not done a recovery before it would be wise to run an image validation from the rescue CD before you start the recovery process.
    Better still put a spare drive in the computer and restore to that.

    Xpilot
     
  18. frankb_c

    frankb_c Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Posts:
    28
    MudCrab / Brian K

    would this file help

    tracko.bin

    oops have to change it to a text file to send can you change back to read binary?
     

    Attached Files:

  19. frankb_c

    frankb_c Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Posts:
    28
    Xpilot
    Yes I did an image on 12 DVD's last december and when I tried to recovery.. kaplunk.
    It cant read the disk. Wasted 12 DVD's.
    I made jpg's of the results.' Guess where they are.
    That's right on the drive I can't access.

    It seems that my only option to save what I have is go the linux route.
    as knoppix sees the drive and the files. What I need now is how to be administrator top dog in linux to have permission to change or move files.
     
  20. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Posts:
    6,482
    Location:
    California
    Is this the output from the "savepart" program or something else?
     
  21. frankb_c

    frankb_c Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Posts:
    28
    MudCrab
    It is a file that was saved with the Bootmaster V.5 program.
     
  22. jonyjoe81

    jonyjoe81 Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2007
    Posts:
    829
    You might want to try the following with a bartpe cd. Removing the "mounted device" drive letters. I tried this on my test computer to see if it would fix my "partition ID drive letter" it didn't, but when it rebooted all the "mounted device" drive letters where rewritten and "c" in the "mounted devices" was back in it's original place. In other words it won't damage anything.

    Though windows hanging at logon screen is the usual symptom, I've also encountered different symptoms.

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=210322

    Also if you haven't tried yet, you might want to do a chkdsk c:/f and see if that can fix any corruption on that hard drive. I've had unbootable systems that where fixed by a simple "chckdsk". Usually this happens with improper shutdowns that corrupts the system files.
     
  23. frankb_c

    frankb_c Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Posts:
    28
    BrianK, MudCrab,jonyjoe81.

    Thanks for your input, I figured after a week its time to ACT.

    I took the cowardly way to get back up.

    I had a copy file of the C: drive only. So I thought.

    I did this as I could not rely on an Image copy through TI9.
    I switched the drives and booted up.

    I got a blue screen reading like the Acronis cloning and than it shut down and rebooted. and went through to the desktop.

    It turns out that I had cloned and not copied the drive verbatim.
    So I am back to normal, except for the data files, and Emails for the last 2/3 weeks before fiasco.
    Cloning works, with TI 9 I can vouch for that part.

    Updated my AVG,
    Updated the KB files from Microsoft including SP3
    updating adaware spybot defender

    Attached the drive as an external. Came up and all files are there for the transferring.

    After transfer will use it to clone to for storage.
    1. That should reset its bootcfg /rebuild, etc... Yes?
    NO. with the WD Tool I was able to format, as a USB drive and erase everything.

    The drive works as a storage drive.
    I split it 149 gb and 148 gb

    2. regular format through winXPPro hangs.

    TI 9.0 finds the drives, now going through, lets see what happens

    Open to suggestions. Nice ones that is, Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2008
  24. frankb_c

    frankb_c Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Posts:
    28
    Resolved. Yes, I found a way.

    I used the Western Digital Diag floppy, and than the Tools diskette and was able to re format.
    after that I used TI9 to make a clone of other computer to try it. Small 40 GB
    it took a long time but it did do a clone.
    I checked the files and I had no problem reading of the drive.

    I than tried it on my system.
    The clone process went through its various screens to shut down.
    It did not work.
    I restarted the computer and went through the whole thing again.
    This time it worked. All files are there.

    In Disk management it shows the c: as D: the E: (recovery) as L:
    both healthy and the D: as active.

    Next step is to prove it. Change to the clone?
    That will wait, I have to many things to catch up on, and move things .


    I do have a question.
    I formated the HD 320 gb into two NTFS Partitions.
    When I went through TI9 to clone I just went through the screens.
    When Clobne completed and checking in Disk management the Hd shows
    D partition NTFS healthy (Active)
    L partition FAT32 Healthy

    I thought one formated NTFS you can't go back to FAT32?
     
  25. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,634
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    frankb_c,

    Was the cloned HD connected as a slave or external HD when you determined these drive letters?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.