US attorney general William Barr says Americans should accept security risks of encryption backdoors

guest · Aug 10, 2019

Arnim Zola said:

HYDRA created a world so chaotic that humanity is finally ready to sacrifice its freedom to gain its security.
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replace HYDRA by a certain governments , and suddenly things becomes clear...

guest · Aug 11, 2019

Billionaire Thiel Supports Encryption as U.S. Pushes for Access
August 11, 2019
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...n-as-u-s-pushes-for-access?srnd=technology-vp

Peter Thiel, the Silicon Valley billionaire and board member of Facebook Inc., pushed back against the U.S. government’s efforts to get technology companies to provide law enforcement access to encrypted communications.
“We should be supportive of encryption,” Thiel said in an interview on Fox News’s “Sunday Morning Futures” when asked about the Federal Bureau of Investigation bid.

“If you deencrypt everything, maybe stuff goes back to our rivals in China,” Thiel said. “Maybe the FBI gets the information, maybe other people get it. I don’t trust the FBI to keep it protected inside the FBI.”
It’s a somewhat odd contention for Thiel, who co-founded data-analytics company Palantir Technologies Inc. The company works closely with police departments and U.S. government agencies, including the Defense Department, Homeland Security and the Internal Revenue Service.
‘Less Privacy’
“The dogmatic backdoor to encryption that the FBI pushes is something I would disagree with,” Thiel said. Having impenetrable encryption could pose challenges for law enforcement, he said, but accommodating the U.S. demands “also can mean that you have less privacy.”
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Minimalist · Aug 12, 2019

FBI seeks to monitor Facebook, oversee mass social media data collection

Plans to track social media activity will potentially clash with existing privacy policies.
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https://www.zdnet.com/article/fbi-s...ok-oversee-mass-social-media-data-collection/

zapjb · Aug 12, 2019

So we're supposed to pretend they're not already doing this?

guest · Aug 12, 2019

zapjb said: ↑

So we're supposed to pretend they're not already doing this?
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Yep

mirimir · Aug 12, 2019

Well, NSA does. And shares with FBI. But FBI wants its own toys. And maybe NSA is too picky about sharing.

Minimalist · Aug 14, 2019

Attorney General Barr and Encryption

Last month, Attorney General William Barr gave a major speech on encryption policywhat is commonly known as "going dark." Speaking at Fordham University in New York, he admitted that adding backdoors decreases security but that it is worth it.
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https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2019/08/attorney_genera.html

guest · Aug 18, 2019

Encryption has created an uncrackable puzzle for the real world
August 18, 2019
https://www.zdnet.com/article/encryption-has-created-an-uncrackable-puzzle-for-the-real-world/

With a certain amount of inevitability, governments on both sides of the Atlantic are taking another swing at one of the technologies they really love to hate -- encryption.
Governments have regularly called on tech companies to give up encryption in recent years, to little effect.

As Labour's shadow home secretary Diane Abbott told ZDNet: "The new home secretary repeats the errors of some of her predecessors. She seems not to understand that a general access to encrypted communications by the police and security services would effectively end those communications, because no-one could trust them."
Breaking that model at the behest of one or two countries would be vastly expensive and weaken security for all users around the world.

So why do politicians keep bringing this up? The cheap shot is to say they do it for the easy headlines. But the truth is, the costs of encryption are real -- police cannot spot criminals or terrorists plotting -- and should be acknowledged. No answer to the encryption debate is without downsides, and we need to remember and admit that.
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guest · Aug 26, 2019

The Myth of Consumer Security
August 26, 2019
https://www.lawfareblog.com/myth-consumer-security

The Department of Justice wants access to encrypted consumer devices, but promises not to infiltrate business products or affect critical infrastructure. Yet that's not possible, because there is no longer any difference between those categories of devices. Consumer devices are critical infrastructure. They affect national security. And it would be foolish to weaken them, even at the request of law enforcement.

The thing is, that distinction between military and consumer products largely doesn't exist. All of those "consumer products" Barr wants access to are used by government officials—heads of state, legislators, judges, military commanders, and everyone else—worldwide.
Barr can't weaken consumer systems without also weakening, commercial, government, and military systems.
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Minimalist · Aug 27, 2019

Govts risk cyber attacks if they continue to demand encryption backdoors

Governments that flout encryption best practice and mandate the inclusion of backdoors into technology are putting their entire countries at risk, according to security professionals.
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https://securitybrief.co.nz/story/g...-they-continue-to-demand-encryption-backdoors

Minimalist · Sep 11, 2019

More on Law Enforcement Backdoor Demands

The Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and Princeton University's Center for Information Technology Policy convened an Encryption Working Group to attempt progress on the "going dark" debate. They have released their report: "Moving the Encryption Policy Conversation Forward.
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https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2019/09/more_on_law_enf.html

Minimalist · Sep 26, 2019

Two thirds of consumers don't think government encryption backdoors will protect them from terrorists

A new survey by machine identity protection company Venafi shows consumers don't trust major cyber security policies pushed by their governments.
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https://betanews.com/2019/09/26/encryption-backdoors-not-trusted/

Minimalist · Sep 27, 2019

There is No More Encryption Debate: Backdoors Threaten the Whole World

The encryption debate ends now. As a society we simply can’t allow backdoors in encryption. Anyone who tells you otherwise has absolutely no idea how computers work.
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https://hackernoon.com/there-is-no-...ckdoors-threaten-the-whole-world-8e1793ed32be

guest · Sep 28, 2019

Treaty would force Facebook and other “end to end encrypted” social media platforms to share encrypted chats with UK police
Whether or not authorities get what they want is another matter
September 29, 2019
https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/28/us-uk-treaty-forces-sharing-of-encrypted-chats/

A cross-Atlantic political agreement could put social networks in an awkward position. Sources for The Times and Bloomberg understand that the US and UK will sign a treaty in October that would force Facebook and other social networks to hand encrypted messages to UK law enforcement.

The measure would be limited to 'serious' cases like pedophilia and terrorism, but it could still leave social sites either handing over effectively unusable data (if they can't decrypt chats themselves) or weakening security through backdoors.
The pact would bar each country from investigating the other's citizens, and the US couldn't use data from UK companies in any case where the death penalty is an option.

Like other politicians, UK Home Secretary Priti Patel has claimed that end-to-end chat encryption helps terrorists, and that intelligence agencies should have backdoors to investigate suspicious activity.
As always, though, there are a number of problems with this strategy. In addition to basic privacy concerns, there's not really such a thing as an authorities-only backdoor -- it's really introducing a vulnerability that anyone can use, including hostile countries and criminals.
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mirimir · Sep 28, 2019

Also see https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...p-will-have-to-share-messages-with-u-k-police

Good reason to not be based in the US.

There's a good HN thread, with posts from Will Cathcart, WhatsApp CEO: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21100588

guest · Sep 29, 2019

WhatsApp Backdoor—Will Facebook Be Forced To Break Message Encryption As Reported?
September 29, 2019
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdof...rced-to-break-message-encryption-as-reported/

Is this true? If so it would be the greatest assault on widespread user privacy in recent times. Well, it’s not that simple. These reports are almost certainly misleading, mixing up data sharing agreements with government mandated backdoors—which are clearly entirely separate.

Encrypted messaging information can be the metadata associated with the message—the platforms have that. But to disclose the content requires a complete rethink of the ways in which messages are sent from one individual to another. And where such encryption has been broken—recent nation-state hacks have reportedly accessed this content—it has been a compromise of the device not the platform.

"Technology is moving fast, and privacy needs to move with it," Joel Wallenstrom—the CEO of uber-secure messaging platform Wickr—told me after the U.S. discussions came to light.
Maybe so. But the challenge for government is that there are no good options for resolving this. Privacy is an issue, as is data compromise. And any shift away from total security can be exploited.
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It seems this story about data sharing has led to stark implications, none of which were clear in the initial reporting. To be clear, for WhatsApp and other U.S. platforms to break their encryption would require major technical changes. They will fight hard against such moves.

Clearly no guarantees, but on balance encrypted message content still seems safe for the time being. If that changes it will be the technology story of the year so far.
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mirimir · Sep 29, 2019

Also see this from Alex Stamos: https://twitter.com/alexstamos/status/1178308065268920320

guest · Sep 30, 2019

mood said: ↑

Treaty would force Facebook and other “end to end encrypted” social media platforms to share encrypted chats with UK police
Whether or not authorities get what they want is another matter
September 29, 2019
https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/28/us-uk-treaty-forces-sharing-of-encrypted-chats/
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Current and former Facebook execs say reports WhatsApp will hand encrypted messages to UK police are wrong
September 30, 2019
https://www.businessinsider.de/face...rypted-messages-to-uk-police-2019-9?r=US&IR=T

Current and former Facebook execs are disputing reports from Bloomberg and The Times that the company will be forced to hand over encrypted WhatsApp messages to UK police.

But the treaty won't involve breaking end-to-end encryption or backdoors, according to WhatsApp chief Will Cathcart and Facebook's former chief security officer Alex Stamos. Instead, it's about speeding up a little-known legal process and giving UK police and courts faster access to much the same information from tech companies that US courts can access. That includes data such as phone numbers or timestamps, but doesn't include the encrypted content of messages.

"This agreement would allow UK courts to issue requests equivalent to US courts, but it DOES NOT grant them access to anything a US court can't get already," he wrote on Twitter.
Will Cathcart, the head of WhatsApp, also appeared to dispute the reporting on Hacker News.
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deBoetie · Sep 30, 2019

My understanding is that it's (finally) streamlining access that used to take days or more via MLAT arrangements. This would be OK IF the same rules were applied as for domestic communications access, but because it's international, I don't believe those protections apply, but would love to be proved wrong. The danger would be if they could bypass protections between 2 UK citizens because it happened to be stored by Whatsapp.

As usual, the metadata is way more valuable than the content anyway, most times, and they'll pick up the content if they want to via what they call "equipment interference".

hawki · Oct 3, 2019

"AG Barr asks Facebook to hold off encryption plans for messaging services...

U.S. Attorney General William Barr wants Facebook Inc. to delay plans to include encryption on its messaging services until it determines a way to provide government access for investigative purposes..."

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/a...lans-for-messaging-services-report-2019-10-03

hawki · Oct 3, 2019

hawki said: ↑

"AG Barr asks Facebook to hold off encryption plans for messaging services...

U.S. Attorney General William Barr wants Facebook Inc. to delay plans to include encryption on its messaging services until it determines a way to provide government access for investigative purposes..."

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/a...lans-for-messaging-services-report-2019-10-03
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"Barr Pushes Facebook for Access to WhatsApp Messages...

WASHINGTON — Attorney General William P. Barr is set to press Facebook on Friday to create a so-called back door to its end-to-end encryption on WhatsApp and other messaging platforms, which would give investigators access to now-secret communications, including from terrorists and other criminals as well as whistle-blowers, journalists and others."

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/...ook-encryption.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

guest · Oct 3, 2019

The Open Letter from the Governments of US, UK, and Australia to Facebook is An All-Out Attack on Encryption
October 3, 2019
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/...-australia-facebook-all-out-attack-encryption

Top law enforcement officials in the United States, United Kingdom, and Australia told Facebook today that they want backdoor access to all encrypted messages sent on all its platforms.

This is a staggering attempt to undermine the security and privacy of communications tools used by billions of people. Facebook should not comply. The letter comes in concert with the signing of a new agreement between the US and UK to provide access to allow law enforcement in one jurisdiction to more easily obtain electronic data stored in the other jurisdiction. But the letter to Facebook goes much further [...]
What’s more, the backdoors into encrypted communications sought by these governments would be available not just to governments with a supposedly functional rule of law.
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hawki · Oct 4, 2019

Barr's DOJ highlights child exploitation as reason for back door need:

"DOJ Summit on Child Exploitation

The Department of Justice holds a summit with panel discussions on data encryption and its impact on child exploitation. FBI Director Christopher Wray delivers opening remarks and Attorney General Bill Barr delivers the keynote address."

https://www.c-span.org/video/?46497...ta-encryptions-impact-child-exploitation&live

deBoetie · Oct 4, 2019

These cross-border LE collaborations send a chill down my spine. It's notable that there has been zero consultation about these substantive measures - all hidden behind the international and essentially law-free zones that cross-jurisdiction surveillance allows.

guest · Oct 6, 2019

Here Is The Real Reason Facebook Is Fighting For Message Encryption
This Is Facebook’s Hidden Motive For Its WhatsApp And Messenger Encryption Fight
October 6, 2019
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdof...yption-fight-hiding-a-ruthless-secret-agenda/

Facebook, the company that has taken more fire than any other for misusing, abusing and losing user data, has become the last line of defence in the fight against government access to that same user data. Led by the U.S. and U.K., Facebook is under increasing pressure to delay plans to expand encryption across its platforms until backdoors can be added to enable government agencies access to user content.

But is everything as it seems? Has Facebook really turned away from its casual approach to user data to become the poster child for user privacy?
Because users hold the keys, WhatsApp has no way to access the content, to break the encryption, even if they want to.
So what’s the issue? Put simply, it’s that if WhatsApp cannot access the content, then law enforcement and government agencies cannot access it either [...] There is no level of pressure that can be applied to the platform to have it relent, no court orders or warrants, it is not possible for them to crack the encryption without a hack.

But there’s a twist. In parallel with the encryption battle, even more pressure is being applied to Facebook to moderate user content. [...] But guess what—you cannot physically moderate encrypted content.
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Facebook is generating strong support from the technology community for its defence of encryption. But the drivers behind that are more likely to be motivated by a defence against more forced moderation than privacy advocacy, and that same technology community is first to slam Facebook’s avaricious business model at the expense of its users.
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