UEFI won't let go!

Pretty sure they all beep - but an absent motherboard speaker is now common.

Years ago, ALL cases came with a small "system" speaker for beep codes that attached to the motherboard's front panel I/O header (same header used to connect the on/off button, reset button, HD LED, and power LED cables).

Then "some" motherboard makers started integrating tiny piezoelectric "button" speakers on their boards. It seems case makers took that as a sign to save a few pennies, so they stopped including speakers for system beeps on their cases.

But sadly, there are STILL many motherboards that do not come with integrated speakers. Fortunately, the ATX Form Factor standard still requires motherboard front panel I/O headers to support a speaker so I keep a small cache of piezoelectric motherboard speakers on hand to add to my builds that don't have speakers.

 

This UEFI crap is a microcosm of what the industry calls "progress" these days... namely Microsoft. Making things more convoluted and limiting your options... forcing change upon you and making it impossible to go back if you decide you don't like it.

I have no desire whatsoever to change from XP, but if I do it will be to 7, certainly not to 8. I will start running Linux distros as hosts on my machines before I will use Win8. 9 had better go back to NT roots like I hear it will or my affair with MS will be over shortly.

 

UEFI was designed in 2001.
Mrk

 

Sadly, it is clear you have not taken the time to see what UEFI is all about, or how it offers significant improvements, more - not limiting options, and advantages over BIOS. It is clear you don't understand who is pushing UEFI over traditional BIOS. It is NOT Microsoft.

This illustrates my point. "Namely Microsoft"? Why this biased, opportunistic, and totally unwarranted Microsoft bashing? UEFI is a "hardware" feature (so is the BIOS) developed by Intel (a hardware maker) and other hardware makers including AMD, American Megatrends, Apple, Dell, HP, IBM, Insyde Software (UEFI developers), Lenovo, and Phoenix Technologies. Microsoft's input was to ensure capability - not development direction.

Microsoft isn't pushing UEFI, the hardware and security industries are - which anyone could easily determine with just a little homework and help from Bing Google.

The facts are, Microsoft should have supported UEFI with W7, if not Vista! Bash MS for not doing that!

Also, it is simple for anyone to easily determine that W8 can easily be made to "look and feel" like W7 too - totally avoiding the unpopular "metro" style "Start Screen" and "Tiles". So the rant about W8 was just another opportunistic MS/Windows bashing too.

That said, it is your choice. You can upgrade to a 4 year old, less secure W7 and NOT take advantage of the performance and security features today's UEFI based motherboards ("hardware") have to offer. Just don't try to blame MS for "forcing" you to do anything. It is because of the badguys XP users need to upgrade (or get off-line), not MS.

If you don't want to use MS products, great!!! There are plenty of excellent Linux alternatives, as well as Office alternatives that are free, and much more secure than XP.

So my advice to you luciddream is to switch to Linux so you and your XP systems don't become threats to the rest of us. It is pretty clear you have a thing against MS anyway.

*****

Actually, it has roots back to the mid 90's but BIOS goes back yet another 20 years to the early 70's and the Intel 8080 CPU.

 

Hey Folks, I haven't and won't abandon this thread. I have tried every day to access the machine, but the owner is moving both their home and their business, into their new home. Although the new loc is less than a mile away from the original locations, it is very difficult so I will continue checking with them daily, and reading here mostly daily.
OP
Ps I appreciate the posted clarifications on UEFI origins (& BIOS). Esp. Bill Bright.

Also posting parts of my Private Message I agree should've been on thread:

~private communications removed~

Thanks for keeping us on track. I agree 100%.

 

@STAPP!
I'm unclear why I can't post as I did, ONLY the CONTENTS of a pm with all the ref's to identity removed? How about ALL my posts since the message also contained the word "and" as well as the letter "e"?
I believe that was an improper enforcement of a very good policy.

 

You can try to justify it all you want with all the rhetoric and spin in the world, but the bottom line is it amounts to a monumental inconvenience for people. I've witnessed dozens of incidents myself of people losing their minds and wasting massive amounts of time (and in some cases money) because of this "improvement" you mention. With improvements like that... they can keep em.

A person shouldn't need to take a bachelor degree course just to reformat their computer and/or install a new OS on it. The purpose of measures like these are to make it difficult, if not nearly impossible for people to change their OS if they want to. If you don't see that you're either incredibly naive, or perhaps intentionally so and just not being objective here. Because they could have implemented these "improvements" more seamlessly if they so chose to without making it a nightmare for everyone. But there was no profit in doing it that way.

 

I agree with both 100% of the statements, and the passion of this post.
Unfortunately, well, just like we got Win8. UEFI may have been instituted by Intel, but it was absolutely in covert collusion, a conspiracy, with Micro$oft.
And since the US Gov and the Govts in EU, Canada, etc. will do anything, as in there is nothing they will not do, to enrich the personal perks and priviledges of their daily lifestyle ... all we can do is gripe.
There is no fix. But shouldn't we stick to the purpose of this thread -- to deal with this hideous thing (my choice of words) called UEFI??

 

That, of course, is BS! And again, ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI, BioStar, ASUSTec, and other hardware makers put UEFI on their boards, not Microsoft.

Apple is bigger than Microsoft and Apple has supported UEFI for some time. Why, luciddream and DrWattsOn, are you not blaming them? Ignorance? Naivety? Or just your biased prejudice against MS? Obviously the latter.

Yeah, right! Because you stand around and watch as "dozens" of people assemble "new" PCs and install, and screw-up the installation of the operating systems.

I'm being naïve? You clearly have no desire to do ANY research on this and you call me naïve? It is you who are intentionally unwilling to learn the facts. FTR - If you follow the link in my sig, you will see I run a shop that builds custom PCs for a living. There is no special trick to install W8 on a UEFI system vs traditional BIOS.

WRONG!!!!!! Seriously, luciddream! You need to educate yourself before posting such totally inaccurate BS accusations.

1. This feature you talk about is called Secure Boot and its purpose is to prevent badguys from taking over your machine.

2. This feature can easily be disabled by the authorized user - though that is NOT recommended.

3. This feature is, and has been since BEFORE Windows 8, supported by a number of Linux distributions including Fedora, OpenSuse, and Ubuntu.

4. The vast majority of folks don't EVER change their OS, other than possibly upgrading - and that is not a problem with UEFI.​

Wow! What a disappointment to see something like this from you.

Got a link to ANY evidence to support your accusations of "covert collusions" and "conspiracy" claims? If you guys are not even going to try and learn the facts and keep spewing outlandish feculent blather like this, I see no reason wasting readers' time. It is pointless trying to educate those unwilling to accept facts.

For the record - I am all for "passionate" debates. But not when others refuse to learn, verify or accept the facts before posting, and especially when posting obvious disillusioned and paranoid conspiracy theories.

We're done here.

 

I thought I remembered some of this (as you wonderfully articulated a description, it is too delicious to not repeat, even if I'm the target) outlandish feculent blather (OFB ??), in various articles around the Internet by respected Windows Journalists such as some at TWiT.tv/Windows Weekly (Mary Jo Foley), or Windows Secrets, or other places.
If I can I will make the time I would never otherwise "find", and put forth the effort to substantiate my Outlandish Feculent Blather (I hope that's not copyrighted, because I intend to memorize it). Since it is what I actually believe, if I got it wrong, I do prefer to know whatever is true. I will be exceedingly embarrassed to find it false, but I will nonetheless post accordingly. I repeat I actually believe it was developed in collusion; I think someone leaked internal memos. If not, then at the very least Microsoft saw and took, the opportunity to use it on the 99% of store-bought computers preloaded with Windows, to make it virtually impossible to dual boot. And as I perhaps misremember, there was the discovery of this attempt, and Microsoft backpedaled after the light was shined on it, and only then stopped preventing users from making changes.

I have no doubts however, about Microsoft's antics, on par with anything done by Oracle and other predators, to absolutely destroy Open Source any way they can. And the reputable sources of that are so numerous, I won't put out any effort to substantiate it.

Your well earned MVP notwithstanding, there are evil people in Microsoft management with no scruples, who abide by their lust for power. And who (BTW) colluded (now we have proof) with the NSA. Yeah, so did others, so what?

But I guess I gotta do some research on my allegations of an Intel-Microsoft plot re: UEFI. If I gotta admit being wrong, when I see it, I must. I'm not sure I can handle it; I've never been wrong before in my whole life! Seriously though, I appreciate that you stepped in and yet kept your response classy and direct.

Meanwhile, I am still waiting for another hands-on with The Dell Laptop. Perhaps Friday or Saturday, once the owner gets all their stuff relocated. My research on my own anti-Ms bias must wait but will occur.

 

So now, instead of verifying your facts first, you post more feculent blather and continue with the MS bashing?

It is simply ludicrous to suggest "collusion" - which clearly suggests illegal activities. MS knows full well the SEC, Congress and the EU are watching their every move.

I don't want to or care to hear about why you are biased against Microsoft. That is immaterial to just about anything and is as important and applicable as your preference for chocolate or vanilla. Not to mention, it is simply wrong to prejudge without learning the facts first.

And yet, here you are STILL bashing Microsoft.

BTW, my MS MVP has nothing to do with me defending Microsoft of being falsely accused. Rather, my 24 years in the military defending ANY ONE who is falsely accused is what I am about. I will even defend your Right to post your opinions - even if those opinions are based on bigoted prejudices and falsehoods propogated by bashers and lemmings who refuse or are too lazy to verify their facts before repeating. I will NOT, however, stand by with my thumb up my a$$ while unwarranted and/or unsubstantiated, and/or flat-out falsehoods are propagated by prejudiced posters.

No! You follow the prompts on the screen!!!!!! Have you never installed Windows before?

Come on, DrWattsOn! Have you no personal pride in your postings to ensure your words are truthful? This is a technical forum!

MSKB - Install, Upgrade, Activate Windows 8/8.1

MSKB - How to Perform a Clean Install of Windows 8

Ever heard of Bing or Google?

Now it has gone from silly to asinine. Microsoft is NOT a non-profit! And yet Microsoft still gives away lots of free software, including free security tools.

Again, Apple is much bigger than Microsoft and clearly, Apple is about "proprietary" hardware and software. Apple has been using UEFI (or EFI variants) for MANY years. Where's your whining and crying about them?

Wrong, wrong, wrong! A total falsehood! Microsoft does not prevent dual-booting. In fact, they accommodate it, but in a secure way so badguys cannot commandeer your system.

Microsoft is sick of tired of folks like you who bash MS for every and anything under the sun. They get bashed for lacking security with XP when the lack of security was due to user demand for legacy (DOS era) support, and badguys. And then MS gets bashed when they clamp down on security because it forces users to upgrade their hardware (due to lack of driver support - the HW maker's responsibility) or software support (the SW maker's job).

Secure Boot is but one (that's "1" - that is not the only feature, nor is it the main feature) of the many enhanced security features of UEFI. And Secure Boot is NOT to keep users from dual-booting, it is to keep badguys from compromising your machine so biased MS bashers like you can't (or don't have grounds to, anyway) blame Microsoft again for something they did not cause.

Also, Secure Boot enabled with W8 is only a requirement for factory built computers with OEM Windows 8 preinstalled at the factory. It is NOT a requirement for home builders, home upgraders, or custom PC builders - the users who are more likely dual boot. And again, this is but one security feature who's implementation has been pushed primarily by the hardware industry and the security industry. It is endorsed heartedly by MS (and Linux).

See? Now this is the type of prejudicial BS I am talking about. If this were people, you would be a bigot! And you cannot discuss issues with bigots because they are closed-minded knuckleheads.

AS YOU NOTED - this is a hardware issue. In case you didn't notice, Microsoft is a software company. UEFI (and Secure Boot) were developed decades ago - and not by MS. And Microsoft announced this requirement upfront - there was no getting "caught".

I could care less if you hate Microsoft and their products! That's your Right and to those who hate MS and their products my advice is the same as I gave luciddream. Use Linux and OpenOffice. But don't post falsehoods just because of your biases. That's puerile playground stuff.

Now, again, this is your thread so it is your time to waste. But no more of mine will be wasted here (unless more falsehoods are presented) because none of this has anything to do with the problem you noted in your opening post.

 

@Bill Bright
Ok, all points noted. I will do my research as I previously said I would, beginning with the links you provided. Then I will post my findings. Thank you for the response(s). Now chill! If I'm a bigot, I have lots of company on all sides (some opposing) of many issues. Though I can't even claim kinship with the bigots, because I will pursue a peaceable settlement of these issues, at least on my part, by study. You have at least motivated me to that end.
Meanwhile, on to the more mundane chores of Friday and pursuing the laptop problem. If the owner is finished relocating, or they need help to finish that, I will try to get back to re-enabling the laptop at least by bootable DVD with a small "thumbdrive" for storage, so their kid can do homework and they can maintain secure billing records for their business. Until then

 

I am not calling you or anyone a bigot - a strong word I probably should not have used. But even you admitted you have set biases against Microsoft and you made serious accusations of "criminal behavior", corporate "conspiracies" and "covert collusions" even while admitting UEFI is a hardware issue.

NO DOUBT that Microsoft execs and marketing weenies have made some horrible business decisions in the past the deserve bashing - and to be sure, they've had earfuls from me too. But I applaud Microsoft for putting security ahead of legacy hardware support.

And BTW - there would be no legacy hardware if the hardware makers did not keep advancing the state-of-the-art, and if we consumers did not keep demanding faster hardware.

I say bash when bashing is due. UEFI is a hardware industry standard that Microsoft supports. Just like Microsoft supports the ATX Form Factor Standards for PCs, SATA, USB, 802.11 wireless protocols and 802.3 Ethernet protocols, and PCIe and HD graphics. These are all "hardware" protocols developed by the hardware industry, not Microsoft. MS may have had input, but not the final word.