True Image Won't Restore

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by 4ln75Z5a, Apr 7, 2009.

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  1. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    Quit hijacking other people's threads. It's very poor form.

    Start your own thread about your problems, or continue the one you started, but don't intrude on other people's conversations.
     
  2. NBAustin

    NBAustin Registered Member

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    {Snip - gratuitous comment removed - Blue}

    I have experienced the SAME thing as bbarry. I have every right to express MY opinion and issues with this lousy software and the company that produces it.

    Feel free to put me on ignore.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2009
  3. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    Yes, you have the right to be impolite, but not the necessity.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2009
  4. bbarry

    bbarry Registered Member

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    John, it so happens that's exactly what I ended up doing, as documented in a thread I started on 25 March entitled "Problem Doing Restore from External Drive". A friend who had already installed Trial TI 2009 created me the rescue disc. So after having the crap scared out of me by Acronis, my Vista computer is back up and running. But here I sit with a couple of old TI 10 backups, and my dilemma is whether I want to fork over another $49 to actually purchase TI 2009. Or do I want to blow off the backups I made with TI 10 and go purchase another imaging software program. I have lost all confidence in Acronis wanting to or even being able to do the right thing to stay up with technology. The ONLY reason I might stay with (or I should say come back to) Acronis is because of members of this board like yourself, Mudcrab, GroverH, et al........some pretty sharp and dedicated guys.

    Also, I owe 4IN75Z5a an apology for tagging on to this thread of his, although it was in support of his position. Like I said earlier, I had my own thread going back in late-March, and thanks to members of this board (but not the Acronis support staff), I was finally able to resolve my problem.
     
  5. bbarry

    bbarry Registered Member

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    See John, this is the first time that anyone has told me how to actually do a test of the restore environment. What you say makes sense, and it is obviously something I should have done. I guess I developed a false sense if security since my backups/validations were going well.

    This also makes a lot of sense.

    This is where I got balled up in my thinking as I read all these suggestions to test, test, test. I only had one hard drive, so I'm thinking how do I perform a test restore? And what if something goes wrong, how will I recover? That's why I like your idea of a test procedure provided by Acronis, but personally I doubt Acronis is going to go to that much trouble to help their users.

    No argument from me here
     
  6. 4ln75Z5a

    4ln75Z5a Registered Member

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    Didn't I start this thread? And now the subject has morphed into something else.
     
  7. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    See what you started. It's had a three screen life. That's quite an accomplishment. We may not remember what you asked to start it, but we've had fun. :)
     
  8. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    Did you successfully restore your system with the TI 2009 Rescue CD restoring your TI 10 backups?

    If so, then you have a proven backup and restore system. Validate your other TI 10 backups from the TI 2009 Rescue CD, and you can count on them being good to restore. Future backups made with TI 10 should not be a problem restoring either.

    If Acronis brings out a future version of TI that has features that you want, consider an upgrade at that time. But, for now, it sounds like you have a proven system that you can rely on.
     
  9. bbarry

    bbarry Registered Member

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    Yes John, that's exactly what I did. But even with this rescue disk, TI 2009 still couldn't recognize the external drive to which it had written the backups for 2 years. Likewise, it would not recognize the hard drive on another LAN computer that contained a TI 10 backup. So what I had to do to finally accomplish a successful restore was to partition my new drive, copy my backup TIB file to one of the partitions, and then restore from there.

    Somewhere in the process, I lost my boot folder and bootmgr file. However, a couple of boots using the Vista Installation DVD Repair Mode corrected those problems. My point being that even with the 2009 Boot CD, the Acronis restore process was not smooth at all.

    OK, this is where I start getting confused. If I validate my other existing TI 10 backups using the 2009 rescue disk, does that sufficiently test the restore environment for my configuration for all subsequent TI 10 backups? E.G., what happens if I reinitialize my auto backup process.......are all subsequent backups going to be OK, or do I need to stop and revalidate each one with the 2009 Rescue CD? What a bummer that would be.

    Which brings me to my final (hopefully) question. How do I perform a complete test restore when I only have one hard drive? Do I try to do the restore to another partition on my hard drive not containing my OS; if so, will that mess up the booting process from my original OS partition? FYI, I only back up partitions, not complete hard drives.
     
  10. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    Link below is a recent posting of which we need to be aware of its implications. When restoring, the "verify first" option can play an important role.

    New restore failed. Prior restored succeeded. Lesson learned the hard way (almost)
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=238702
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2009
  11. dwalby

    dwalby Registered Member

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    Unfortunately this is not uncommon with external USB drives, as you may already know.

    In his last post Grover referenced a recent problem I encountered, nothing is ever certain until the restore is successfully completed. There are numerous things that can go wrong, some you can blame on Acronis, and some you can't. Even if you've done 100 successful restorations, that doesn't guarantee the 101st will go smoothly. And when things go wrong, the consequences can be catastrophic, so that's why we're always cautioning people to verify their restore process is sound before they actually need it.

    One thing you could try if you have the tools available to create new partitions, is a dummy backup/restore of a meaningless partition. I still recommend buying a second disk because they're cheap enough and you can always use the additional storage eventually. It also makes the whole process a lot less stressful when you know you have the original disk sitting on the table next to you.
     
  12. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    OK, now I understand. The problem is that the TI 2009 Rescue CD, although it is the most recent, still doesn't support your USB chipset or your network card/chipset. Therefore, you don't have a viable restore procedure only a workaround.

    Well, since you can't see the backups on the USB drive or the network, that pretty much makes validating those backups impossible.

    I'd say that you have done a test restore since you successfully completed the restore by moving the backup to the internal drive.

    What you need is a rescue CD for reliably booting the computer which can see at the very least your USB drive but should also see the network drives. You don't have that now from Acronis, so the alternatives are:
    1. Create a VistaPE boot disk with the TI plug-in
    2. Use a different backup program that does support your hardware.

    If you decide to try a VistaPE boot disk, check out Mustang's procedure for making the disk. It simplifies the work. Here are two references from GroverH:
    Introducing MustangPEBuilder for True Image Home 2009
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=222284

    VistaPE Guide - Creating a VistaPE CD
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=211235

    There are several other programs on the market. Paragon uses a Linux rescue disk, so it may or may not work for the same reasons as Acronis. ShadowProtect is more expensive, but it uses a VistaPE rescue disk that may work better.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2009
  13. bbarry

    bbarry Registered Member

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    Why do you think it is that Acronis has such trouble restoring from an external drive, be it USB or firewire? I suspect many people buy external drives just for that reason. And in my case, TI 10 wouldn't even restore from an internal drive on another LAN computer.

    I still have problems understanding how Acronis can backup to a drive and then later have trouble restoring from that same drive. Is this that evil Linux issue raising it's ugly head again? Is Linux used in the restore process but not the backup (my backups went smoothly for two years).

    No disrespect intended, but both of these sound like extreme ways to ensure that Acronis is going to work as it should. How does backing up and restoring a dummy, meaningless partition help me? The practice? Just another way of testing that Linux restore environment that everyone keeps warning me about?

    And swapping out hard drives really seems extreme, which I think is what you are suggesting - take my original drive out and put it on the table, then install my new drive and restore to it?

    Don't get me wrong, if I do decide to retain Acronis as my image backup software, I guess I would be willing to try about anything to minimize the probability of having the crap scared out of me like what happened a couple of weeks ago.

    Thanks for your input.......... Sorry to hear about your recent problems.
     
  14. bbarry

    bbarry Registered Member

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    I should mention, however, that when I used the TI 10 rescue CD, I couldn't even see the partitions on my new drive. At least the 2009 Rescue CD allowed me to see those, and to then do my restore from one partition to another.

    It sounds like Acronis may support a given chipset for the purpose of backing up an image, but not for restoring. Is that correct?

    Mudcrab had already pointed me in the direction of using Mustang to create a VistaPE boot disc, so I was starting to collect "notes". Damn, and I thought backing up and restoring my hard drive would be a simple utility process that would happen while I was asleep. I never dreamed it would be this complicated. Of course some of you guys HAVE been at it longer than I have - my frantic efforts just began last month.

    I had also been looking at ShadowProtect, and I am especially interested now that you have explained it uses a VistaPE rescue disc. The extra expense is negligible compared to the stress imposed recently by Acronis, lol.

    Thanks for your insightful input........
     
  15. 2pierre4

    2pierre4 Registered Member

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    After great deliberation I finally purchased TIH. After reading this article I think I will only create a clone of my main harddrive. That way I can easily test the new drive and know straight away if it will work.
    I've had bad experiences with "backup" programs in the past and am not willing (after reading this article) to put my faith in a backup only scenario.
     
  16. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    Yes, TI 10 didn't have as much SATA support as later version, so TI 2009 can see the SATA hard drives if not the USB and network drives.

    Not exactly, the backup is usually done in Windows, so the machines Windows drivers are used. If you backed up from the TI Rescue CD, you'd have the same trouble you are having with restoring. All restores of the boot drive (C:) are done from the Linux environment whether you start by booting the CD or start in Windows.

    Ah yes, it shouldn't be so hard. If the boot disk sees all your hardware, it's much easier.

    Those of us who have been worried about backups for many years know that you have to test the restore before you know you have a backup. It's not intuitively obvious, and it's not like any other software. Acronis should make that clear.

    That's the right attitude. However, I should point out that the VistaPE recovery disk is not a guarantee solution. I found one system that wouldn't boot from the ShadowProtect boot disk but would from the TI 2009 disk. Oh well....

    With the Mustang or other build it yourself VistaPE disk, you can add the drivers that you need.

    You are welcome.:)
     
  17. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    Yes, you can do that but I don't have more faith in cloning than imaging. Many people on this board who clone, I am not among them, recommend the cloning process be started by booting the TI rescue CD rather than Windows. Since cloning creates an identical HD you should ensure that either the source drive or target drive is disconnected until the first successful boot is done. Windows can get confused with 2 identical drives being present.

    Xpilot has a neat solution to the testing aspect. He has his drives mounted in racks/tray/caddy. He makes an image of his HD1 and stores it internally. He immediately inserts the second HD, HD2, and restores the image to it and then he uses HD2 as his main drive until it is time to repeat the process.

    He is able to keep more than one image and he has an immediate replacement should HD2 fail and if the process doesn't work he still has the original to try again. He says failures are virtually non-existent.
     
  18. 2pierre4

    2pierre4 Registered Member

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    Are you saying you have had no reliability issues with imaging as mentioned in this post?
    I have heard of similar cloning scenarios where the main HD and the new HD are always swapped after cloning. Hence the cloned HD is always being tested by becomng the main HD and so on.
    I already have a satisfactory file backup method using Second Copy. I like the idea of exact file copies being backed up and not some propriotory method that can't be accessed easily when required or where the backed up files cannot be viewed on another PC that doesn't have TIH installed. Please correct me if I am wrong here.
    My intention, at this stage, is simply to take a cloned copy of the main bootable harddrive with all my software setups and updates. I hope this isn't a problem for TIH as this is the only reason I purchased a copy.
     
  19. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    No reliability issues. As I posted in another thread I am personally aware of over 10 PCs owned by myself and my threads that TI imaged and restored without flaw straight out of the box - 0 PCs had a restore problem.

    The only time I had a problem that was unknown to me was a validation failure dues to a marginal SATA drive cable. However, you must test the Linux recovery environment that is on the TI rescue CD since this must run to be able to recover the active partition, typically C.

    I somewhat agree with your keeping files in their native format and easily readable anywhere.

    I only do Full Images of my C drive which is the OS and Apps. All my important data files are stored off C and I use SyncBackSE to back them up so they are kept in their native form. I don't like stuffing them into proprietary container files.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2009
  20. farmboy

    farmboy Registered Member

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    I do something similar to Xpilot, I stuck another hard drive in my tower, but did not connect it. I make a full disk image of my c drive to a external fire wire drive. Shut down the computer. Slide the side of the case open, move the data cable and power wire from the first drive to the second drive, boot from the rescue cd and restore. This gives me a time tested backup that I can access in minutes. Plus a external drive full of images dating about 2 weeks apart that I know will restore. Also I should say that I only use TI as a stand alone program (not installed) for full disk images. Don’t need all the bells and whistles. For daily backups, I copy my changed files or use Backup mypc to the external drive. This method gives me tremendous peace of mind. Like the box says, I compute with confidences.
     
  21. bbarry

    bbarry Registered Member

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    Sounds like a bullet-proof method of backing up and restoring your TI images. Am I to assume that you also boot from the rescue disk when doing your backups, since TI is not installed?

    Never any problems with your external drive? I tried both a Seagate USB external drive and an enclosed Western Digital combo USB/firewire external drive, and TI would not recognize either during the restore process. TI did however successfully backup and validate to both drives.
     
  22. dwalby

    dwalby Registered Member

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    It may sound a bit extreme at first, but as we have been saying all along, what you're trying to accomplish with any image restoration from a boot environment has inherent and serious risks. You're working with the computer at the 'bare metal' level, and you're integrating software and hardware that were designed at two different times, by two different companies. It WILL work most of the time, but nothing is certain until proven in actual usage. So the dummy partition allows you to go through all the restoration steps, and if the final step fails you have only deleted a meaningless partition, not your system partition, the benefit it obvious. If it works with the dummy partition it should work again with any other partition.
     
  23. farmboy

    farmboy Registered Member

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    Yes, I always work from the cd because if there is a driver issue with
    the Linux environment, you usually find out sooner.
    I have a western digital usb/fire wire that is plugged in the fire wire, and 2 external enclosures 1 usb and one combo that I pop in different drives and have never had a problem.
     
  24. bbarry

    bbarry Registered Member

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    I forgot to ask.....which version of TI are you using. I had my problems with TI 10. Thanks.
     
  25. farmboy

    farmboy Registered Member

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    I am using True Image 11 build 8053. I did not update because 8053 works with all my hardware. No troubles No update.
     
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