True Image versus the competition

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by pszilard, Dec 14, 2008.

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  1. buckshee

    buckshee Registered Member

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    I have owned all True Image since versions 6 thru 11 and after trying the abortion of TI2009 I thought there's got to be something better. TI tech support is a joke.
    True Image 11 stalls 50% of the time when it loads as it looks for the various drives. I never had a restore fail I just had these hangups. So does Acronis Disk Director Suite 10
    Fortunatley some-one on this site recommended Macrius Reflect. I downloaded the demo and tried it. I did a number of backups and restores and I was sold. It was great, no more frustration. The boot CD always saw my HP Pocket Drive. TI sometimes did - most times didn't. Macriius tech support is extremely good and for $31 (I searched the web for a coupon) it's unbeatable. I tried any others but they're not as good. Paragon was o many clicks and stuff to do a backup. ShadowProtect might be okay but is far to expensive (they'd sell a lot more if they 1/2 the price)
     
  2. Aaron Here

    Aaron Here Registered Member

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    Over the years I've used ATI (v8, v9, v10, v11) and never had any problems backing up or restoring (I should add that I never tried scheduled backups).

    About the only negative ATI comment I have is that I found it to be rather slow. Because of that, last year I tried and then bought Drive Snapshot which is much faster than ATI (and very reliable), but I must say that I miss two of ATI's features:

    1. ATI provides a fast-booting GUI Restore CD (iso) - DS doesn't.
    2. ATI allows you to initiate a system restore from within Windows - DS doesn't.
     
  3. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    I have been using True Image for 4 or 5 years (currently version 11) and have never had a problem with it. I do scheduled backups with no problem and restores have been fine every time I have had to do one. As someone mentioned above every program will have problems at times and there will be folks who curse the program. I suspect that most of these have less to do with the program itself than with the particular PC configuration.
     
  4. renegade08

    renegade08 Registered Member

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    Karen, can you please tell whether does ATI 9 works with Win XP SP3?
    I see that you mentioned that.

    And i presume if it works, ATI 10 will also work with SP3.
     
  5. RAD

    RAD Registered Member

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    Ha ! The only reason I ever found these forums is because I was trying to get ATI versions 9, then 10 , to work with VISTA....it never did.
    IMO, Acronis is a complete ripoff, with virtually nonexistent support. Just visit their section of these forums.

    Paragon Drive backup has worked perfectly for me numerous times. I can't say its the best, because I stopped looking after I found one that actually worked. It has worked flawlessly through countless disk image restores on two different computers, and using versions 8.51 and 9.0
     
  6. rwinegar

    rwinegar Registered Member

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    I have TI 7 on a four year old computer and it works fine. I have two newer computers on which I installed newer versions of TI. They all turned out to be disasters. TI is full of known bugs. Acronis knows this. But it is unable to fix all of them.

    I am now running Shadowprotect on two of my computers. It is expensive, but it works flawlessly everytime. I would not recommend anything else. EVER!
     
  7. Karen76

    Karen76 Registered Member

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    Yes, ATI v9 works fine on my XP SP3 PC.

    I only tested ATI v10 Personal Edition by installing it in a FirstDefense-ISR snapshot on my XP SP3 PC to verify the free serial number I recently received actually worked. I never created or restored any backup images but I have no reason to believe there would be a problem.

    Until I bought a license for ATI 2009 so I could make scheduled backups, I ran Seagate DiscWizard (which is a stripped down version of ATI v10) on my Vista PC and never had any problem.
     
  8. Karen76

    Karen76 Registered Member

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    Since ATI v9 was created prior to Vista and never designed or claimed by Acronis to work on that operating system, why are you irate v9 didn't work on a Vista PC? Personally, I never tried to get v9 to work on my Vista PC but some other Wilders members have posted that v9 works on their Vista PCs even though it's not supposed to be Vista compatible.

    Until recently, I ran Seagate DiscWizard (which is ATI v10 limited to full, manual images) on my Vista PC with absolutely no problems. I only purchased ATI 2009 so I could make scheduled backup images.


    There's no question Paragon has far superior e-mail support compared with Acronis. Last night, however, I contacted Acronis Live Chat about a temporary glitch I experienced and was connected to an online tech rep within seconds. I wound up fixing the problem myself but I couldn't have obtained faster, free contact with a tech rep than I did.
     
  9. renegade08

    renegade08 Registered Member

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    Thanks Karen.

    I've also tested(but not on XP SP3) ATI 10 PE and it's quite good.

    I've created several images and i've restored them and everything was working fine

    Although it lacks some features like incremental backup it's still good choice for those who want to use it.

    But every new created image is full image, and it doesn't matter whether are re-installed only couple of programs with few MB, so it takes a lot of space :mad: .
     
  10. RAD

    RAD Registered Member

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    I misspoke. It was ATI 10, then 11.

    I am not really "irate" about anything. I just want to warn people so they don't waste a lot of time and money. The $30 is insignificant to the amount of time and frustration that inoperable disk imaging software can cause.

    I have to wonder if some people who say ATI "works" have really tried to restore an image. Having software that appears to "work" is relatively easy. It is when it comes to the RESTORE part that things become critical. :D

    Just a cursory glance at the ATI support forum can reveal how many satisfied customers they have. :D
     
  11. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    Well, I have used ATI for about 4 years now and have done a number of restores and they worked just fine. As to the TI forum most issues are with the latest version and its new so this is the time these issues would be appearing. I don't upgrade any program until the latest release is at least 3 or 4 months old. This give the developers time to work out the bugs. Also the number of issues on the TI forum does not nec mean that the majority of users are having problems with it. You are only hearing from those with issues, those with no problems are not heard from. Given the widespread usage of TI I would suggest that perhaps the simple volume of licences out there could account for the apparent high number of problems. 2% of 5 is very small, 2% of 1,000,000 is apparently a lot. But its still just 2% (the selection of 2% is random on my part).
     
  12. Karen76

    Karen76 Registered Member

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    I wonder how I got the notion you were "irate"? Oh, I remember; it was when you wrote, "Acronis is a complete ripoff, with virtually nonexistent support." My mistake. :cautious:

    I've made dozens of successful image restorations with ATI v9 and DiscWizard (ATI v10). I've only performed two restorations with ATI 2009 but then I've only owned that version for a couple months. I can't recall ATI ever failing to restore a backup image on my PCs.

    I'm not a raving Acronis fan. I'm keenly aware of their history of introducing new buggy versions which require build after build to get right (if ever). I minimize potential problems by not using Secure Zone, only creating full (not incremental) backups, and ensuring I'm always using the latest build. In the case of ATI 2009, I only use the program's imaging functions, not the other extraneous stuff such as TrynDecide, file backups, file erasure, and underwater mess kit repair. :)

    Usually when I restore a backup image, it's not a necessity caused by some system disaster. In these cases I commence the restoration using True Image's wizard and the restored image is invariably correct after a restart. On those rare occasions when I've had to use the recovery CD, sometimes True Image couldn't detect my external hard drive (one reason why I prefer having both internal and external drives for storing backups) and sometimes my wireless keyboard and mouse wouldn't work. There's probably some connection between this and why I use multiple imaging programs as well as FirstDefense-ISR.


    The same "cursory glance" in the ATI forum will reveal numerous posts from Acronis Support personnel which contradicts your "virtually nonexistent support" assertion. Yesterday, I was connected to a tech rep using Acronis Live Chat within seconds; that wasn't "virtually nonexistent support" to me. I'd never experienced such fast access to technical support for any other software. I've endured "virtually nonexistent support" from several software firms, most recently TuneUp Utilities. Acronis support can be slow, especially e-mail support, but I wouldn't characterize it as "virtually nonexistent."

    The objective reality is most True Image users are satisfied with the product because it works for them. IMHO Acronis True Image isn't the best backup imaging program, but it surely isn't a "complete ripoff" either.
     
  13. RAD

    RAD Registered Member

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    Well, you are entitled to your opinion. I am glad it seems to work for you.

    But I am entitled to my opinion also. as evidence I just continue to refer unbiased readers to the ATI section of this forum. Note that a form e-mail instructing one to contact Acronis support does not really qualify as "support" in itself.

    Basically, I feel that if a product is marketed as 'working with Windows Vista" (or working AT ALL) then it should work in the vast majority of cases. It should not just "occasionally work". When a product simply doesn't work as advertised for a very large fraction of users, I consider it a "complete ripoff". Maybe my standards are too high. :D

    I couldn't help but notice that you jumped in to defend Acronis before you had even tested ATI 10. By your own admission:
    "I only tested ATI v10 Personal Edition by installing it in a FirstDefense-ISR snapshot on my XP SP3 PC to verify the free serial number I recently received actually worked. I never created or restored any backup images..."
    I don't know what your motives are, but I guess everyone is entitled to be an "expert" and express opinions on these kinds of forums. :D

    Thanks.
     
  14. Karen76

    Karen76 Registered Member

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    Good luck on improving your reading comprehension. As I posted previously in this and other threads, I used Seagate DiscWizard on my Vista PC for over a year before I purchased ATI v2009. As I stated before, DiscWizard is a stripped down version of ATI v10. It worked perfectly for me in creating, and restoring, manual full backup images. Every. Single. Time.

    As I also explained, I only briefly installed ATI v10 Personal Edition (which is a special limited version akin to DiscWizard) to test a Wilders moderator's claim the version I downloaded from my Acronis account (a version he claimed wasn't even available as a download) would accept my free license key. Try to follow along: I only have two PCs. I have ATI v9 on my XP PC and ATI v2009 on my Vista PC. Until and unless I acquire a third PC, where do you suggest I install and use ATI v10 Personal Edition (which is limited in functions compared with v9 and v2009)? Also, since ATI v10 Personal Edition appears to be effectively identical to DiscWizard except it doesn't require a Seagate hard drive be present, why wouldn't it work for me since DiscWizard did so well? You probably just overlooked posts by other Wilders members who availed themselves of the recent free offer for ATI v10 Personal Edition and who report using it with no problems. Right? ;)


    I've read many responses from Acronis Support in the ATI subforum which didn't consist of just a "form e-mail instructing one to contact Acronis support." Also, the few times I submitted e-mail support requests to Acronis, I did receive assistance; the response times ranged from fair to slow. You conveniently ignore the fact many customers (including myself as well as other Wilders members as detailed in their posts) have received prompt assistance via Acronis Live Chat. You seem perfectly willing to ignore hard facts if they contradict your opinion ATI is a "complete ripoff."


    My "motives" are to tell the truth, correct misinformation, respond to questions directed at me, and share my experiences in the hope they may assist other people. I'm not the person with deficient reading comprehension, who confused non-Vista compatible ATI v9 with v10, and who makes assertions which defy objective reality.

    I regret you've had major problems with ATI but it should be obvious most Acronis users haven't had your difficulties or the software wouldn't be as popular as it is. Also, I never remotely suggested I was any type of an "expert" on the subject.

    You neglected to cite proof ATI fails to work for a "very large fraction of users." It's safe to say most ATI customers aren't even aware of the existence of these forums. Even then the fact many folks seek help in the ATI subforum here doesn't translate into the program not working for a "very large fraction of users." As bgoodman4 correctly discerned, "the number of issues on the TI forum does not nec mean that the majority of users are having problems with it. You are only hearing from those with issues, those with no problems are not heard from."

    Why would Seagate and Maxtor offer free backup imaging software (a version of ATI v10) to their hard drive customers if such software failed to work for a "very large fraction of users"? To use your word, what would be Seagate/Maxtor's "motives" in needlessly irritating so many of their customers?
     
  15. RAD

    RAD Registered Member

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    So, uhhh...the FACTS remain that you DID NOT try ATI 10, but based your claims on the use of a different product that you believe is a "stripped down version" of ATI 10

    So it seems that, by your own posted facts, my reading comprehension remains at 100% until shown otherwise. :D

    Now, why did you believe Discwizard was a stripped down version of ATI 10 and not 9 ?
    Also, in "stripping it down" is it not possible that they deliberately stripped out the faulty features so they could get the Seagate contract ?
    Like maybe someone could claim that the current version of the microsoft operating systems work great because they previously tested a "stripped down version" of XP ? :D

    Defend Acronis all you want. It is of no great concern to me. I just expressed my opinion, based on actual experience with the "real product".
    I continue to refer readers to the ATI segments of this forum to make up their own minds. is that OK ? :D
     
  16. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    Sorry, your reading skills are not up to snuff. I suggest you try slowing down and actually pay attention to what you are reading. Karen76 clearly wrote

    Besides, if Karen uses both version 9 and version 11 I would suggest that its quite reasonable for her to quickly test version 10 for the purposes that she did and for her to suggest/assert that version 10 works just fine. My copy of 10 worked fine for me when I was using it and it matters not at all that it was a full version as opposed to a stripped down one. Basically you have no basis for you claim that TI is a rip off based on your extremely limited experience with it.

    The bottom line is that no program works for everybody all of the time. There will always be PC configurations that cause some programs problems and generally these can be remedied with the help of the programs support team. Of course this is not always the case but if you don't try you will never find out if it could have been remedied. A quick look at user comments on CNET download shows this to be the case. Even with programs with very high user satisfaction ratings you will find a few people who think the program in question is junk and a rip off. You cannot please all of the people all of the time.

    You are certainly entitled to your opinion but so are others. As I mentioned I have been using True Image since about 2004 and have upgraded regularly (I have not missed an upgrade in other words). I have not upgraded to the latest version yet for 2 reasons. I do not have a Vista system, and I generally like to give a new release a bit of time to get the inevitable bugs worked out. It is a very very rare program that is released and is totally bug free. The more complex the program, and the more systems that it used on, the more likely it is that bugs will show up. Developers and beta testers cannot possibly test the program on every conceivable PC configuration, expecting them to do so is simply unreasonable. Thus the activity on the ATI forum is no indication of anything at all other than some users are having some problems. You may have noticed that most question on that forum are pertaining to the latest version. This is exactly what you would expect. If all versions were bad then there would be an equal number of problems with them all. The fact that people are upgrading, or perhaps purchasing the latest version at all would seem to indicate that either they have had positive experiences with TI in the past (those upgrading) or, have heard good things about it.

    So the program did not work for you,,,fine. So you want to tell people of your experience,,,,fine. I for one appreciate hearing the negative as well as the positive but lets not get carried away here.
     
  17. RAD

    RAD Registered Member

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    Let's briefly review the facts.
    Karen76 posted: (extracted verbatim)
    OK...I can only speculate as to why you would DELIBERATELY LEAVE OUT the "I never created or restored any backup images..." part. But interested readers can form their own opinions about whose reading comprehension is accurate. :D It is all posted directly above in this thread.

    Here is a nice random extract from today's Acronis Product Line Forum. https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=232499
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2009
  18. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    There is a difference between calling a program crap and calling support crap. I personally have had good support from Acronis as have others, clearly others have had a different experience. I just went through a session with Horizon Data Systems where I was very unimpressed with their support but that has not made me doubt the program itself. It may cause me to avoid purchasing the program but thats a completely different issue from the program in question being a rip off, junk, or whatever. In fact, in-spite of a few forum members who have indicated they had problems with RollBack Rx most seems to use it, value it, and continue to recommend it. At this point I will most probably purchase it in-spite of the poor support because its the only program that I have been able to find that really meets my needs. As to how I will deal with support issues if I have to,,,,its nice to know that I have another option for support and thats this forum.

    As to the value of True Image if you really want to test it try downloading a full version and take the time to learn how to use it. It does take some getting used to and it does have to be setup properly. If you are not interested in TI, and were just looking for a free-bee, try Macrium Reflect. I had problems creating the rescue disk and decided to look elsewhere for a 2nd backup program (as insurance not because I have had problems with TI - I just figured if I could add a 2nd imaging program to my tool box for free it might not be a bad idea to do so). I have not started crying that Macrium reflect is a rip off, or junk because of my experience, I just decided not to bother learning how to get it to work.

    Anyway enough of this. You made it clear you don't like TI, you have expressed your opinion. Please let it rest there.
     
  19. Karen76

    Karen76 Registered Member

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    As Acronis and Seagate employees and DiscWizard users can confirm, Seagate DiscWizard (and Maxtor's MaxBlast) is ATI v10 with the functions to performed scheduled and incremental backups removed. The program also requires the presence of at least one Seagate (or Maxtor) drive to work.

    I believe DiscWizard is a "stripped down version" because that's objective reality. I used the term "stripped down" because it doesn't contain all the functions of the full version of ATI v10.

    Your "100%" reading comprehension still prevents you from reading scores of helpful posts from Acronis Support in the ATI subforum and posts from Wilders members whose experiences with ATI and Acronis support refute your "complete ripoff" assertion. Your "100% reading comprehension" didn't keep you from initially claiming you'd tried to get ATI v9 to work on a Vista PC only to later say it was actually v10.

    For the best of all possible reasons: because it's the truth. DiscWizard is Vista-compatible. The reason why it's Vista-compatible is because it's a variant of ATI v10, not v9. Don't believe a non-"expert" like me, ask Acronis and/or Seagate officials. I wonder why it's titled DiscWizard ("powered by Acronis") v10.0.0.5077 and not v9? ;)

    Anything is "possible" for a person obviously grasping for any specious excuse to bash Acronis. The objective reality is Seagate offers a free basic imaging backup program as an incentive for customers. Upon activation, the first thing DiscWizard does is to verify the presence of an internal or external Seagate hard drive. If no Seagate drive is detected, the program shuts down. This feature wasn't "stripped out"; it was added so the software would only work for its intended audience: owners of Seagate hard drives.

    All essential imaging functions are contained in DiscWizard. The abilities to make incremental backups and to schedule backups were intentionally excluded; users are offered discounts to purchase the full version of ATI. I wouldn't call the ability to make incremental or scheduled backups "faulty features," but then I'm not you. Although I prefer making full backup images, my two full versions of ATI have never given me any problem with incremental or scheduled backups. My primary reason for replacing DiscWizard with ATI v2009 was so I could make scheduled backup images on my Vista PC just as I do with v9 on my XP PC.


    What I'm "defending" is the truth, not Acronis. If I thought ATI was invincible, I probably wouldn't also have Paragon, Macrium Reflect, and FirstDefense-ISR on both of my PCs.

    Contrary to your assertion, I have two full versions ("real products" as you call them, although DiscWizard sure seemed "real" when I had it installed) of ATI, v9 on my XP PC and v2009 on my Vista PC; both are working just fine.

    You falsely assert Acronis has "virtually nonexistent support" while ignoring the incontrovertible fact Acronis Support personnel have made numerous (sometimes even helpful) posts in the ATI subforum, that Acronis has (albeit often slow) e-mail support, and offers prompt (in my experience and that of other Wilders members) Live Chat support.

    You're free to believe ATI is a "complete ripoff" just as you are to believe the Earth is flat. I'll still cling to objective reality; I'm just funny like that. :) I'm pretty sure if Acronis was really a "complete ripoff," Wilders wouldn't have a support forum for their products on this board.

    You really are a piece of work. :mad: The words you accused me of "deliberately leaving out" are my words. How hard is this for you to comprehend? I only briefly installed ATI v10 Personal Edition for the purpose of verifying my free license worked. ATI v10 PE is identical to DiscWizard except it doesn't require the presence of a Seagate hard drive to work. DiscWizard worked perfectly on my Vista PC for over a year until I replaced it two months ago with ATI v2009 so I could make scheduled backup images. Since ATI v10 PE and DiscWizard are virtually the same program and since I used DiscWizard with no problems for over a year, why would I test ATI v10 PE, especially since I already have ATI v2009 on my Vista PC? I only obtained the ATI v10 PE license because it was offered for free and I thought I (or some friend) might have a use for it in the future.

    With your "100% reading comprehension" it should eventually dawn on you that DiscWizard = ATI v10 PE except the latter will work with any brand drive and that other Wilders members, including one in this thread, have reported ATI v10 Personal Edition works fine on their PCs. I've lost count of the number of posts I've read by Wilders and other boards' members who use the full version of ATI v10 and are content with it. Good luck convincing them ATI is a "complete ripoff."

    Since ATI v9, DiscWizard (ATI v10), and ATI v2009 work fine on my PCs and since Acronis Support (especially their Live Chat) respond to my inquiries, I'm still waiting for you to explain how that makes ATI a "complete ripoff" with "virtually nonexistent support." It's shaping up to be a long wait. :)
     
  20. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    Hey everyone,
    To start with ATI uses 4 services which must all be started before creating an image.
    The last version of ATI i used was version 9. It created corropt images everytime no matter how many "upgrades" came out. Its still not fully uninstalled off my parents computer. I followed the instuctions ati support gave and after i completed those steps and rebooted the computer wouldnt boot. i had to use last known config.
    so instead of fixing those issues ati just thought lets add some pointless features in V10 such as backing up application settings.
    there are plenty of good imaging programs but ati sucks.

    I really dont know how Acronis can still be in business.
     
  21. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    I hesitate to describe ATI as a sucker app. there are many satisfied with it,but after coming from ATI with his and.... Yes their SUCKER Linux restore CD it was a great relief to get my hands on SP, WOW what a difference !! In every aspect much better,just name their hardware support,every driver in existence is loaded in their recovery environment ( XP/Vista PE).
    Reliability is another great thing with SP,did maybe 100 backup/restores on my four rigs and never failed my once.Not to speak about the huge difference in speed,i backup and restore 16 gig system part. in about 8 minutes total time.
    One minor issue with SP is the slow loading recovery environment,with all drivers loading option it take 3 minutes to fully load.But other then that i'm very satisfied with it.It give me the feeling that i can screw almost anything but that SP is always watching from behind my back and jump in if needed to get me fast out of the mess.And reckon that it happen to me quite regularly due to my own stupidity.

    Note : I only use the CD for backup/restore. I never installed SP.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2009
  22. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    Clearly you cannot please all of the people all of the time. I am sorry you have had a bad experience with TI, not everyone has.
     
  23. SourMilk

    SourMilk Registered Member

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    I only use the rescue CD for making and restoring images with ATI v.11. I have never had a problem that the chat tech's on the Acronis website could not solve (mainly SATA and RAID drivers). I do not know of any other drive imaging company that allows you to both make and restore images with the rescue CD, even though I am sure some do, I am satisfied with ATI.

    SourMilk out.
     
  24. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    Yes but too many moan. :D
     
  25. RAD

    RAD Registered Member

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    Anyone can just jump over to the Acronis forum section and see exactly how wonderful the Acronis support is. I am glad they are "sometimes even helpful". It is not worth arguing about. The truth is all right there for anyone to check out. :D

    So you HAVE actually made AND RESTORED images with ATI 10 or 2009 ?
     
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