To use the IE6 cookie handleing tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling tool

Discussion in 'privacy technology' started by notageek, Dec 6, 2002.

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  1. notageek

    notageek Registered Member

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    Is it worth messing with or is it just better to use a cookie cleaning program?
     
  2. Pieter_Arntz

    Pieter_Arntz Spyware Veteran

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handleing tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling to

    IMO a regular cookie controlling program will give you a lot more options.
    These will make your life easier and keep your computer cleaner ;)

    Regards,

    Pieter
     
  3. TonyKlein

    TonyKlein Security Expert

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handleing tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling to

    Well, I have to disagree slightly there.

    I used to run Cookie Pal myself, and I liked it a lot, but on upgrading to IE 6.0 I decided to give the Privacy tab a go.

    I disabled CP, which turned out to increase my System Resources more than I expected (this was on Win98 SE), and configured the Privacy settings to overide automatic cookie handling, to block third party cookies, and to prompt for first party cookies.

    This turns out to work like a dream: it works exactly like a cookie manager, and no cookies gets through unless I want them to.

    And it's always nice to be able to eliminate one more program from starting up and eating up resources.

    IMHO it's always preferable to let Windows handle things, at least if it can, than to install a third party app that does almost exactly the same thing.

    And I can assure you managing cookies this way is just as comfortable and effective as using a third party cookie manager.

    Not only that: as the Privacy tab cunningly allows you to block third party cookies, you actually get a lot fewer cookies to handle than with most cookie managers.
     
  4. notageek

    notageek Registered Member

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handleing tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling to

    Thanks guyd for the info here. I just read some bad things about the IE6 cookie handling tool.
     
  5. TonyKlein

    TonyKlein Security Expert

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handleing tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling to

    I was sceptical myself at first, but it turns out to work absolutely fine.

    I'm using it on XP Pro as well, where system resources aren't an issue, and I can assure you I'm not planning to install a cookie manager any time soon.

    II just can't see any advantage.
     
  6. luv2bsecure

    luv2bsecure Infrequent Poster

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handling tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling to

    Hi Notageek!

    I know without a doubt that I can count on one hand the times I have disagreed with Pieter - the guy is very, very good. But, this is one of those times.

    I'm curious to hear about the bad stuff you heard about IE6 and the Cookie Management. Could it have been the security hole that involved the IE6 Cookie Mgr? That was patched and all is well now. Well, we are talking Microsoft, so until the next security bulletin anyway.

    Really, if you set out to design simply a utility to handle cookies, I don't know what else you could do than what IE6 does. Many 3rd party tools give you other options that usually don't have anything to do with cookies, but as just a cookie utility - I'm with Tony - skeptical as I was, I began using it on my XP box and have found it to be far more effective than anything I had used before and I had tried a lot of them. It's very smart. It uses the P3P platform......ahhh.....there's where you may have heard some grumbling. Web site developers who must write for the P3P platform hate it. P3P is the Platform for Privacy Preferences Project. It is the newly recommended platform by the W3C for browsers to analyze web site privacy policies and IE6 uses that by default. Many....make that most ...developers don't like having to deal with it.

    The cookie management in IE6 truly gives, imho,"smarter" options - especially since the update that allows you to pick and choose cookies within a web site. With it being integrated with the browser, not having to use resources for another program, I just don't see how you beat it. Of course, I maybe have missed something and it's always good to hear the other side!

    Understand I don't think Pieter is "wrong" as much of this is just user preference anyway, I just think IE6 is smarter, easier and the best of the Cookie Managers I have tried. I have to agree with Tony that this is one of those rare times when Microsoft did something really good. Here's something I just found that might help a little (again - it had a mile-long address so I used TinyClick):

    http://tinyclick.com/?3OE99Z

    Have a great weekend everybody!
    John
    Luv2BSecure
     
  7. Pieter_Arntz

    Pieter_Arntz Spyware Veteran

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handleing tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling to

    :: looking for a dark corner :: ;)

    No need to go easy on me. When you think I´m wrong, speak up. Let me first say in my defense that I´ve been using Cookie Pal since before I got XP.
    It´s one of these programs that work so well, that I never even considered replacing it.
    But with John and Tony backing up a M$ product I feel obliged to reconsider.
    I´m going to study the link luv2besecure posted and give it a try. As Tony stated: it would be one app less in my startup.
    I´ll keep you posted.

    Regards,

    Pieter
     
  8. TonyKlein

    TonyKlein Security Expert

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  9. Mike_Healan

    Mike_Healan Registered Member

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handleing tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling to

    IE6's cookie handling is fine if you know what you're doing and do it like Tony does. It's the default settings, and that ridiculous slider that are the problem. By default it accepts 3rd party cookies, no prompting. That defeats the whole purpose of having a cookie manager.
     
  10. luv2bsecure

    luv2bsecure Infrequent Poster

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handling tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling to

    Hey - Pieter! Don't go looking for any dark corners! It's really a matter of preference and really, your postings here are Grade-A, Top Notch, and frankly, as helpful and practical as any. We've got some good people here. A few stand out - you're one of them.

    Actually, Mike, as for the settings, I actually think that's the beauty of it! It's there and you can do with as you please. The defaults are basically defaulting to allow for what a browser would accept without any cookie manager at all.

    If you want to use it, the slider is a basic tool. It does work - crank it to the top and see how many cookies you get - none, ZERO. Crank it to "High" hit the advanced button and it's hardly "advanced" - it's very simple. Click on "Accept No Third Party Cookies" and it's over! With any cookie manager there is tweaking. But the fact that the defaults are not much to crow about is not, to me, anything but recognizing that this cookie manager is built into the browser and should not be making any really important cookie decisions. I see your point about those defaults being very "low security" but maybe you hadn't thought of it being integrated with the browser - it allows YOU to make the choices. That's what we've been asking from Micro$oft for a long time. Here they give it to us with the IE6 Privacy Tab and people are saying that Microsoft should have configured it for people. That's a case of "you can't win for losing." And remember -- I'm no Micro$oft fan. But I appreciate being able to basically "start from scratch" for once.

    It's very easy to learn and actually easier than most cookie managers that insist on doing more than managing cookies. Mike, you said, "IE6's cookie handling is fine if you know what you're doing and do it like Tony does." All Tony does is use the "privacy tab" which is hardly difficult. In fact, just like any tab on any cookie manager.

    Anyway, it's all a matter of preference and if you haven't really used it - you might want to give it a try. If not, that's great too. With a war around the corner and watching constitutional rights being stripped almost daily, we should keep it all in perspective. They're cookies.

    Pieter, Mike, everyone - hope your weekend is a good one!

    John
    Luv2TalkCookies
     
  11. notageek

    notageek Registered Member

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handleing tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling to

    Well I read what someone else said on the dslreports board about IE6 cookie handling tool being a slider. Heres what he put at the dslreports boards:
    "notheretoday, pull up a chair and grab yourself a beer. You have been sold a sack of excrement. The "IE 6 built in cookie tool" is only for those who don't know better... "
    "This seems like a glowing review to me. Maybe I am reading too much into your words.

    Let me clarify:

    The IE6 built-in cookie tool DOES NOT block the cookies you don't want.

    The IE6 cookie tool (slider) was specifically designed to ALLOW third-party advertisers to place and access cookies on your computer.

    Is that clearer now? "

    I wasn't sure if this was true or not so I thought I would ask you guys here.
    Thanks Mike, Tony, Pieter and luv2bsecure for the info and help.
     
  12. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handleing tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling to

    Hi notageek,

    Yes, I've read that DSLR / Security thread. I don't think there is a difference of opinion here, really. The "slider" portion of the cookie control in IE6 is not great in terms of ultimate security, given its default setting. But, using Advanced button to "override automatic cookie handling" works fine in my opinion, as the others have said above.

    I have mine set as follows First-party Cookies: Prompt and Third-party Cookies: Block. Then, I keep an eye on which cookies I get prompted for, deciding case by case whether to accept it and all future cookies, or simply accept it or block it one time. Works great. I never get a cookie I didn't specifically choose to allow.

    As for whether Microsoft actually set the "slider" defaults, in some scheme to always allow advertising cookies or not, well, I don't know, but it sure makes a good story. ;)

    Best Wishes,
    LowWaterMark
     
  13. CrazyM

    CrazyM Firewall Expert

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handleing tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling to

    To take cookie handling a step further in IE6, custom settings can also be imported via XML files.

    Eric L. Howes has compiled XML-Menu, a list of custom import files for advanced manipulating of cookies in IE6.

    A good one to start with is the 4d-s file from the short list while you explore the multitude of other options.

    More information here under IE6 Tools:
    http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~ehowes/main.htm
     
  14. luv2bsecure

    luv2bsecure Infrequent Poster

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handleing tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling to

    Hello CrazyM!

    Thank you for that information. I did not know of that and if Eric has something to do with it - I'm interested.

    I agree with all of those above (including my own arguments - surprise!) that the "slider" is not the cookie tool and I really think there are a lot of people out there who have never bothered to look past the slider.

    I still think the one thing to keep in mind is that a browser without the Privacy Tab and cookie controls in IE6 would accept third-party cookies "by default" - would they not? So the fact that IE6 is setup that way is really of no consequence. If you want to control cookies - use the tool! Which means tweaking - just like any cookie manager.

    I'm going to check out the add-on from Howes right now, thanks for that info CrazyM!

    It's the weekend! In sunny Southern California, we're expecting the basic partly cloudy skies in the morning and a high of a perfect 72. Not to rub it in or anything. :D

    John
    Luv2BSecureInTheSunshine
     
  15. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handleing tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling to

    That's ok, Luv2B, I'll take my White Christmas any day of the year, well, any December 25th, over 72 degrees. (Enjoy your weekend)
     
  16. Bethrezen

    Bethrezen Registered Member

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handli tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling tool

    hi

    i have a question i have the cookie slider in ie 6 set to default and i have override cookie handling set to block 3dr party cookies and accept first party cookies

    how ever what i really want is a way to block all cookies except ones i need like when i need to log in to places how ever i don't want to be buged by constant pop up boxes asking for permission

    and i was wondering that if i set the slider to block all cookies then just added the sights i wanted to allow would this work ??

    also my other question on this subject is what is a session cookie as I'm unsure whether i should check this box ??

    comments anyone ?
     
  17. Vietnam Vet

    Vietnam Vet Registered Member

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handleing tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling to

    Hello Bethrezen,

    and i was wondering that if i set the slider to block all cookies then just added the sights i wanted to allow would this work ??

    That is the way I personally handle it. No popup warnings, you receive only the cookies you specifically allow. Works great for me.

    also my other question on this subject is what is a session cookie as I'm unsure whether i should check this box ??

    Session cookies are for the current session only. In other words, they are not stored on your computer after you close out the session. I do not check the box, and if I understand you correctly as to what you are trying to accomplish, I see no reason you should have to check the box, either.

    HTH.
     
  18. Pieter_Arntz

    Pieter_Arntz Spyware Veteran

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handleing tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling to

    Well, fair´s fair.
    I´m impressed with the way IE6 handles cookies.
    Making this change even solved one of my most annoying problems although I don´t see how that happened.
    I couldn´t surf longer then 10 minutes at dslreports without getting thrown out because of too many requests.
    That doesn´t happen any more. I don´t get it but I´m happy with the way it is now.:D

    Thnx guys, for setting me straight.

    Pieter
     
  19. TonyKlein

    TonyKlein Security Expert

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handleing tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling to

    Hey, one other convert! :D

    Cheers,
     
  20. Pieter_Arntz

    Pieter_Arntz Spyware Veteran

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handleing tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling to

    Make that: a new missionary :D

    Regards,

    Pieter
     
  21. TonyKlein

    TonyKlein Security Expert

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handleing tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling to

    LOL! :D
     
  22. luv2bsecure

    luv2bsecure Infrequent Poster

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handleing tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling to

    Pieter, Glad to hear it's working out for you!

    Hi Beth! Vietnam Vet pretty much laid it out for you. I'll add a little that would allow you to do this:

    At the bottom of the Privacy Tab (under the slider), it should say:

    "Web Sites...To override cookie handling for individual web sites click the edit button."

    Click the edit button and you will see the options. Also, the first thing it says is, "You can specify which web sites are always or never allowed to use cookies, regardless of their privacy policy." It then tells you to type in the name of the web site. As long as you have the update to IE6 (and you should if you have kept up with all the critical updates - plus it's in the IE6 SP1 (not XP SP1, but IE) then it will handle the cookies INSIDE that site as well that meet your criteria.

    Beth, As for your question about session cookies. Again, Vietnam Vet was correct in that they are for that session only. I will just add that these cookies will be destroyed at the close of the browser or after a set time of duration, which the accepted "default", (and the time most sites use) -- 20 minutes. Also, session cookies are stored in memory and are not text-based cookies stored on your hard drive like a file/persistent cookie is.

    Thanks Vietnam Vet for helping Beth. It's great to know we have so many around here who understand the ins and outs and can help.

    Enjoy the weekend!
    John
    Luv2BSecure
     
  23. Bethrezen

    Bethrezen Registered Member

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handleing tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling to

    hi

    grrrrrr problems not as easy as i though

    ok i moved the slider to block all cookies but cant access the edit option coz its greyed out

    also when i have the advanced option to block 3rd party cookies the slider vanishes so i cant have both on at once

    also plus when i have block all cookies set it ignores sights i put in the edit box for custom unblocking of sights

    help
     
  24. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handleing tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling to

    Hi Bethrezen,

    Yes, the main slider on the Privacy tab and the settings on the screen that comes up when you hit the Advanced button are supposed to be mutually exclusive.

    When the slider is set to the highest / Block level, notice is states:

    "Cookies from all Web sites will be blocked."
    "Existing cookies on your computer cannot be read by Web sites"

    This is supposed to mean even sites allowed in the site list are being blocked, as well as those cookies that exist on your system. (Personally, it doesn't actually work this way on my system, but, that's another problem.)

    In order to get the functionality you noted by saying: "how ever what i really want is a way to block all cookies except ones i need like when i need to log in to places how ever i don't want to be buged by constant pop up boxes asking for permission"... where all cookies are blocked except for those listed as Always Allow in the Privacy > Web Sites > Edit... list, you actually should set it like this:

    Advanced > [check] Override automatic cookie handling > and set both First and Third-party cookies to Block. This setup will block all cookies not in your Edit... list. Those sites in your Edit... list will be handled according to their specific Allow or Block settings.

    Give that a try and see if it gives what you want,
    LowWaterMark
     

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  25. Bethrezen

    Bethrezen Registered Member

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    Re:To use the IE6 cookie handleing tool or not to use the IE6 cookie handling to

    hi all

    LowWaterMark thanks for clearing that up all seams ok now need to run a few checks to make sure but so far all seams well
     
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