To settle this "raging" controversy....

Discussion in 'all things UNIX' started by Trespasser, Oct 23, 2009.

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  1. lewmur

    lewmur Registered Member

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    Sorry, but what the Zulu dictionary says is irrelevant when speaking English. But it doesn't state the pronunciation as 00 boon tu anyway.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2009
  2. lewmur

    lewmur Registered Member

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    Ah, at last, someone cites a reasonable "authority." Just as Linus has the right to say how Linux should be pronounced, because he made up the word, Canonical should have the right to say how Ubuntu should be pronounced. Right? Not quite. They didn't make up the word. English dictionary please.
     
  3. lewmur

    lewmur Registered Member

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    I know some people want to canonize Pres. Mandela, but that still doesn't make him an authority on the English language.
     
  4. Trespasser

    Trespasser Registered Member

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    It was in my first post.

    OK. How about this. It's the American English dictionary pronunciation of Ubuntu. It even has a button you click to hear it pronounced...

    http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/ubuntu

    And if you try to comeback that it's just an online dictionary then here's them selling their dictionary....

    http://www.macmillandictionaries.com/about/about.htm

    Oh, what the heck...here's an online talking dictionary of English pronunciations...

    http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=ubuntu

    Hope this satisfies you...but I have a hunch that it will not. :).

    Dude, if you want to pronounce it "you-bun-two" then go right ahead if you wish. Stop getting so bent out of shape on this silly subject.

    Later...
     
  5. lewmur

    lewmur Registered Member

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    Just to set the record straight, my name is not Dude. As to your cites, one has to admire your perseverance. I did a search for online dictionaries and Macmillan didn't even show on the first couple of pages.

    I checked several of the better known dictionaries, such as the OED, Websters and The American Heritage and none of them even list the word. However, by googling "oo boon," I did find a few references to that pronunciation for Ubuntu. I also did a search on the topic of pronouncing Ubuntu and found that the overwhelming majority of IT people pronounce it u bun tu. So, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on what is "correct."
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2009
  6. FirePost

    FirePost Registered Member

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    My observation is that Ubuntu is a name for a product and the people that named it are the authority on how the name is properly pronounced. The pronunciation of the word is not relevant.
     
  7. lewmur

    lewmur Registered Member

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    Problem with that reasoning is that Canonical has never exerted their "authority." This controversy isn't new and Canonical has never stepped into the discussion on one side or the other. Their Homepage gives the pronunciation as 00 boon tu, but that's it. They have allowed the IT community to establish the de facto pronunciation as u bun tu without any protest what so ever. IOW, Canonical has accepted u bun tu, so why can't you? I can insist forever that it is a toe mah toe but everyone else is still going to call it a toe mae toe.

    Do you get it yet? Correct is what is accepted and not what all of the BS in the world says otherwise. I've even given up on telling people that "very unique" is improper usage. It is accepted usage today even if the concept is stupid.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2009
  8. Pedro

    Pedro Registered Member

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    o_O lewmur, everybody including Mark Shuttleworth and his dog is ok with your way of pronouncing it. There was never a problem with this.
    But it does not make it the correct way to pronounce it, no matter what you come up with in creative arguments. The correct pronunciation for this AFRICAN word is how Canonical is telling you, Mandela is telling you, dictionaries that hold the word tell you... ummmkay? :)
     
  9. lewmur

    lewmur Registered Member

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  10. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    I am only wondering...those that pronounce it Ubuntu as "you-bun-two", how do they pronounce Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Xubuntu? o_O

    Panagiotis
     
  11. Seer

    Seer Registered Member

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    Accepted where? In english speaking countries? What about the 'rest of the world'? You have every right to twist (anglicize) any foreign word as you see fit (another simple example would be pronounciation of 'Los Angeles', Pedro should know that ;) ), but this does not make a native english speaker a referent authority.
     
  12. Eice

    Eice Registered Member

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    Unfortunately I doubt that's the issue at stake here. I suggest you simply let it go, as someone wants his stupid but widely-accepted pronunciation to be correct, and will not rest until you give in and admit that he's right.
     
  13. Pedro

    Pedro Registered Member

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    I don't see a problem with debating with people who disagree with you, even when they're not making much sense at the time. As long as we're all civil.
    And lewmur certainly seems to be an intelligent guy. I just think these last posts are really wrong.
    It could be a communication problem of sorts. For instance,
    I don't see anything wrong with this post.
     
  14. Alcyon

    Alcyon Registered Member

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    In fewer words, Ubuntu (oo-boon-two) means "unity" and if it's pronounced you-boon-two, it introduce the concept of duality and completely disfigure its true meaning. Africans, please correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  15. lewmur

    lewmur Registered Member

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    That might be what the word ubuntu means in some African language. (Nobody seems quite sure of the language or the exact translation.) But Ubuntu, (notice the capital U) is a distro of the Linux OS.

    And if you want unity, stop trying to tell the majority of people that they are pronouncing it incorrectly. The original poster as much as admitted that he was stirring controversy. Look at the title of the thread. He started the controversy. Not I.
     
  16. Alcyon

    Alcyon Registered Member

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    lewmur, this is only my interpretation of what Desmond Tutu said, I'm not African (just in case you didn't know), I know nothing about their beliefs, I'm not trying to convince someone that he's not pronouncing the word correctly and I've never said that you started a controversy. You're mistaking me with someone else, I presume.

    Anyway... Guys, I knew nothing about Mr. Tutu until today so a big thanks goes to Fuzzfas for posting the video. It's time to start my own researches on this archbishop. Dialoguing with some hostile people will lead nowhere.

    You can continue your strange quarrels without me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2009
  17. Trespasser

    Trespasser Registered Member

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    Hum.....
    Maybe I should have included controversy in my title quotation marks. I thought for sure putting raging in quotation marks would be enough to tip people off that the subject was meant as a joke. I was not attempting to "stir"controversy. How ridiculous. Like I said in my first post this topic is silly.

    So, in the spirit of Ubuntu, let's allow this thread to die. Enough has been said.

    Later...
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2009
  18. culla

    culla Registered Member

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    so how do you say
    [can't write the first letter with a stick on it] utorrent?
     
  19. Fuzzfas

    Fuzzfas Registered Member

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    This is one of the oldest problems worldwide... How do you pronounce imported words from a foreign language...

    In your own country, as long as the others can understand you, it's fine to use your own language's pronounciation.

    When you leave your country though, if you insist on that pronounciation, while the others use their own or the "original" pronounciation, you will have problems.

    It's the same as when Americans go abroads and listen to others try to reply them in english with a heavy local accent. You know, all the laughs in comedies with Germans speaking english using the german pronounciation for "w" (v) for example? "I vil kill you". Something like that.

    At the same way, for a frenchman, thinking in his own language, a pair of jeans, should be pronounciated like "Jean" in Jean-Paul. But if an american was to hear that, he would laugh his ass out.

    Or another good example , since we have the Inspector in the forum, is this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXn2QVipK2o&feature=related

    Peter Sellers for HIS (supposed) native language, is pronounciating correctly.


    So, in US, Ubuntu, given the way the english alphabet is pronounced ("u" is "you" after all), could , i think, very well be pronounced youbuntoo, youbuntwo or i don't know what else.

    Simply for a South African, who's familiar with his word, you ll sound like the Ispector asking for a room...

    My personal view on this is: In your own language you can use an imported foreign word in the way that it's more widespread amongst your countrymen. For the simple fact that this is how they will understand you. Is it the correct way to pronounce it? No. It's the way your language tries to live with it. The correct is the original one and as soon you leave your border, if you insist on using your own pronounciation, you end up like Peter Sellers.


    The difference here, is that Utorrent, is not an african word. Ubuntu is. Or to put it in another way. If you ask most europeans (bar British) how would they pronounce UToramb, i believe they would say exactly UToramb, not YouToramb (Utoramb with a like in arson). Because it's most natural way that derives from the latin alphabet. If you ask them about UTorrent, many will shift towards YouTorrent. Why? Because they know it's an english word.


    Or for example, there's a german newspaper, called "Die Welt". For an American, it would be natural i suppose, to call it exactly "Die (as in "die you bastard") Welt (W as in Wealth), which means "The world" and is pronounced "D Velt". If you go to Germany and to most european countries where more or less they are familiar with the particularities of the german accent and you say "Die welt" using american pronounciation, they will laugh their asses out. It may be correct for inside USA, but it's not the correct way to say it, because it's not english word. If you for some reason decide to import the word "Welt" from german into american english, of course for you it's natural to say Welt as in well. But it's not the correct way to pronounce it outside USA, because it's not an english word.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2009
  20. iceni60

    iceni60 ( ^o^)

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    you can hear how it's pronounced on youtube if you lookup mark shuttleworth. he gave it the name and knows how it's pronounced. jeff waugh seems to know too, he should know. i think he was one of the first people to be employed at ubuntu.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bV4MVMrN-g
     
  21. Seer

    Seer Registered Member

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    Actually, it's μtorrent, not utorrent, so clearly it's pronounced 'micro-torrent'.
     
  22. Ocky

    Ocky Registered Member

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    "Ubuntu" - an African word meaning "Gentoo is too hard for me". :D ;)
     
  23. Trespasser

    Trespasser Registered Member

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    Ouch! That hurt!

    Gentoo=let's do it the hard way and compile EVERYTHING we put our computers from scratch.

    Yes, we seem to have another Gentoo "snob" in our midst.

    .... ;).

    Later...
     
  24. whitedragon551

    whitedragon551 Registered Member

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    You first ask for proof. They give you proof from not only the Zulu dictionary, but from the team that put the OS together. That team has a right to pronounce it however they wish and with that being said it makes them the authority on it since they created the OS in the first place. You come up with excuse after excuse with no educated answer. Your just being a troll.
     
  25. lewmur

    lewmur Registered Member

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    I did NOT ask for "proof." I asked for an authoritative cite. So far, the only one that comes even close is the "Macmillan Dictionary." Not much of an authority.

    Let's put it this way, it is not incorrect to pronounce the word "car' as "caahh," if you live in Boston. So, no matter how Africans pronounce the word "ubuntu," the OS name Ubuntu is correctly pronounced you bun tu. Now, if you want to claim that oo boon tu is also correct, you'll get no argument from me. My argument is with those who claim it is the correct pronunciation.
     
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