TI 11: First experiences

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by Howard Kaikow, Jun 7, 2008.

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  1. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    I installed TI 11.8053 on my notebook purchased 31 May 2008.

    Program, so far has run very well.
    Compresion for the C drive was over 50%.
    As expected, compression of the Recovery partition (D drive) was poor or non-existent.

    I have run several backups, full and differential, using two Seagate FreeAgent Desktop ST305004FDA1E1-RK 500GB 7200 RPM External Hard Drives.

    After two of the backups, I could not remove the USB drive without abnormally shutting dowm by turning off power on the notebook.

    What is the preferred way to close TI?
    Perhaps, the Close button should not be used??
     
  2. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    Howard:

    Usually if "safely remove hardware" will not let you remove a device it is because there is a file lock that hasn't been released.

    Two suggestions:

    1. Logout and then login. This will clear most file locks.
    2. Since it's a USB device, just unplug its USB cable despite the OS warning.

    You shouldn't need to forcibly turn power off on your laptop.
     
  3. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    I have that problem once in a while. I usually just close any programs that were accessing the device and then just remove it.

    You could check the device's settings (in Device Manager) and see if it's set to Optimize for quick removal so that using the Safely Remove Hardware program isn't necessary. (In Device Manager, right-click on the drive, select Properties and then the Policies tab.)
     
  4. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    It's always the result of an unclosed handle or a process left runnning.

    A logout should close all handles.
    But it might result in a "windows not shut down properly upon reboot"

    In general, that is unsafe.

    Depends on what handle is unclosed, or what process was left running.

    It's still a bug in TI as it is trivial for a program to close all handles, etc., and, more importantly, if we are not supposed to quit TI using the Close button that is even less trivial to prevent.
     
  5. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    I really don't know if it's a "direct" bug in TI. I have this happen often enough with other programs that I think it's more of a general Windows problem.
     
  6. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    I've never seen that happen.
    Not if you've allowed enough time for all of the disk buffer to be written to the disk. A couple of seconds should suffice. Again, I've done this too many times to count and have never lost any data.

    I can't say for sure if TI is responsible for not exiting properly but there are many times that I've gone to disconnect the external USB disk and have found that it won't let go gracefully. It could be due to TI or it could be due to Windows in general; at this point I just don't know.
     
  7. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    This is NOT a Windows issue.

    Applications are responsible for closing all handles, that includes closing open files and processes.

    I do this all the time when testing programs, i.e., I interrupt the program before it's finished, which causes open handles and processes. If the program happens to be accessing a USB drive, then you cannot safely disconnect the USB drive.

    As a programmer, I know which processes to kill for my own programs, but I do not know which processes to kill for TI, nor would I even if I did.

    My suspicion is that TI is not handling the Close button properly, I'll try to remember to use Exit to get out of TI.
     
  8. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    I've never seen it on a desktop, but this is a notebook.
    I've got a feelingt that the Sleep settings have something to do with this.

    Me too, but one cannot count on this.
    Of course, if one cannot safely disconnect, there's no choice but to power down, or whatever.

    See my other posting, it's not a Windows issue, unless there is something outright wrong with Window's USB drivers.

    TI, like any application, can easily intercept use of the close button and make sure that buffers are flushed and handles closed. Ditto for the Exit menu item.

    As we speak, I'm doing a backup. I'll try the Exit menu item when done.
     
  9. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    Howard,
    Couple random thoughts from a casual user in no specific order.

    If it were mine,

    I would assign custom different names to the identical drives and use disk management to assign different specific drive letters to the drives such as x and y, etc. You may have to edit any scheduled jobs directed to the usb drive.

    If the drives have a recycle folder or system restore folder displayed as contents,
    I would disable those functions for these two drives and delete the folders.

    A similar error used to occur on the floppy drive. One work around was to open explorer onto another folder on another drive such as C drive. Just an old dos trick.

    Anytime I have had this error occur on me, repeating the close function again has worked most of the time. I disconnect usb devices several times a day and very rarely have I had to simply pull the usb plug. Most of the time, TI has not been involved and I use version 10-4942 with XP pro on a generic desktop.

    If it continues, I would run error checking on the drives.
     
  10. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    Problem occurred again.

    THis time I did not power down.
    Instead, I went to my main PC to copy over some programs that would allow me to see what program is causing the problem.

    So, after several minutes of deliberation, I recored the programs to a CD-R and moved them to the notebook (I have not yet set up the router, so I had to waste a CD-R).

    Unfortunately, those programs will not run on 64-bit Vista, so I'll need to get new versions.

    In any case, I see the light at the end of the tunnel!

    By this time, the problem had gone away, i.e., whichever program was hogging the resources, let them go.

    I then had a thought, yes, I do have those from time to time!
    The notebook came with a pre-installed trial NIS 2008.
    Although I have not activated NIS, the blasted Norton Protection Centr is installed.

    So a light bulb lit up!

    A few years ago, using nAV 2005 or 2006, I forget which, I noticed that that the Norton Protection Center would grab on to devices and cause just this sort of problem.

    Because I have a purchased copy of NIS 2007, and that entitles me to a free upgrade to a Vista version, Symantec is sending me a free 1 year license for a 3-user version of NIS 2008. due to be deliveredTuesday.

    Once I install NIS 2008, or maybe all I need to do is activate it, I'll see what features of the Norton Protection Center can be disabled. I'm guessing this is the problem.

    I can verify if I can get 64-bit Vista versions of the utilities.
     
  11. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    Using a single script wit h2 drives is working.
    THey are both assigned the same drive letter.
     
  12. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    As I type this, I am running a full backup with TI 11, and concurrently, a program that monitors which processes hook into files on my USB drive.

    So, as with a DNA test, we shoul dsee definitive proof of what's preventing me from safely removing the USB drive after tI is apparently done.

    Currently, ONLY TI is accessing the drive
    OK, finished backing up C drive.
    Now doing D drive (HP's recovery partition).
    OOps, wasn't paying attention, now in verify phase.
    Estimated verify time 4 hours, no, now 3 hours, no, now 2 hours, now
    1 hour 59 minutes, 1 hour 55 minutes, 1 hour 52 minutes ...!!!
    OK, the estimated 4 hour verify actually took 20 minutes and 8 seconds.

    I will now close TI and see whether all references to the USB are eliminated.

    ProcessMonitor states that the tib file has been closed.
    Now I'll close ProcessMonitor and see whether I can remove the USB drive.
    Nope, cannot do so.

    I just tried running another program to list open handles.
    Alas, Vista will not let me because it does not recognize the digital sig in the program.

    Still cannot remove USB drive.
    On;y way is to shut down

    ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
    Bye thee waye, here's another TI 11 first experience (yes, I Know this is also an issue with previous versions).

    Why in the world doesn't Acronis get rid of, or make more accurate, the estimate of time remaining? As presented, it is less than useful information.
     
  13. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    Eureka!!!

    I used another program and found that there are still 5 open handles for the USB drive, not for TI, rather from Vista itself.

    OK, if Vista will let me manually delete them, I should be able to remove the drive.

    But this is not a recommended practice, so I will later shut down and restart.

    Nope, still cannot remove the drive.
    Shutting down now.
    Started up.
    At first, Vista would not let me remove the drive.
    But when I tried again, almost immediately, I was able to remove the drive.

    Still have not ruled out Norton Protection Center as the culprit, as it may be telling Vista to hold on to the drive
     
  14. shieber

    shieber Registered Member

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    If you want to unlock a file that's been held onto when you don't want it to be, you can use a free program called unlocker:

    http://ccollomb.free.fr/unlocker/

    It's a pretty nifty prog when you need it.

    sh
     
  15. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    Such a program is dangerous to use.

    If I cannot delete using Process Explorer or Task Manager, them something is seriously wrong.

    I would do a reboot after any such deletion anyway.
     
  16. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    FYI, it is stated that unlocke rdoes not work in 64-bit Vista.
     
  17. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    Bye Thee waye, Process Explorer lists a "system" process has holding a handle on the tib file.

    That's why I cannot remove the drive.

    I'm anxious to activate/install NIS 2008 tommorrow.
    Hopefully, I can disable some silly options.
     
  18. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    REceive the NIS 2008 CD from Symantec.
    Symantec suggested that I uninstal the trial version.
    Did so.

    Then I ran TI.

    Guess what, no handle was left behind and I was able to renove the USB drive.

    As we speak, I am installing NIS 2008 from th eCD Symatec sent me.

    No useful manual.
    Do not know what options are presented during install.
    For the most part, I'll accept the defaults.
    THen I'll run Live Update.
    Then try TI again to see if the problem reappears, could depend on options chosen. Who knows what options HP selected?
     
  19. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    THere's another possibility.

    Perhaps, NIS is scanning the tib file AFTER the file is created.
    For a 30GB tib file, that might take some time.
    Of course, it that's the case, then why is the handle owned by "system" instead of some NIS process?

    Might need to exclude tib files from scanningo_O
     
  20. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    First, the good news!

    It seems that by uninstalling the trial version of NIS, then installing the version I was sent by Symantec, there is no problem removing the drive.

    I ASSuME that HP selected different options than I, or the trial version had a bug that was fixed in the version I received from Symantec.

    I looked thru all the settings/options that I could find (Symantec's "documention" is, well, ...!), and did not find any options that would appear to affect the issue.

    The bad news!

    I was disappointed to find that a number of settings/options from NAV 2006 appear to be gone, e.g., telling Norton what to do when an alleged infection is found in a file or in email, but this is not the place to discuss NAV/NIS.
     
  21. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    It may that TI 11 is not off the hook, or there's other stuff going on.

    I ran a backup last night.
    Today, when I tried to remove the USB drive, there was a handle to the System Volume Information\tracking.log file on the USB drive.OK, that may have been a momentary coincidence, as the handle did go away after some time. So I swapped USB drives.

    Today, I ran another backup.
    This time "system" had an open handle to the .tib file on the USB drive."
    I again started TI, then immediately Exited using the menu.
    Took TI a bit of time to shut down.
    When TI shut down, the extraneous handle was gone.
    Coincidence? Maybe?

    The monkey wrench here is that Vista ran a Windows Update 2 daze ago.
    Who knows what changes that may have caused. I had forgotten to disable automatic updates.

    I'll try to find out how to disable all optional access to the USB drives, like turning off indexing, etc.
     
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