[thread split]Online drives - privacy policies

Discussion in 'other software & services' started by funkydude, Apr 24, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. funkydude

    funkydude Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Posts:
    6,855
    Re: Google Drive is here

    When you can get it for free without any privacy issues, why would you pay for this:

    http://www.neowin.net/news/comparing-skydrive-and-google-drives-privacy-policy
     
  2. NGRhodes

    NGRhodes Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Posts:
    2,331
    Location:
    West Yorkshire, UK
    Re: Google Drive is here

    Says my google drive is not ready yet :|

    Neowin did not look very far.

    Skydrive policy also states
    But in conjunction with http://privacy.microsoft.com/en-gb/default.mspx which is the privacy link on footer of skydrive

    Cheers, Nick
     
  3. funkydude

    funkydude Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Posts:
    6,855
    Re: Google Drive is here

    Actually they did, it you that's interpreting it wrong:

    In other words, if you modify a word document on SkyDrive, you're telling Microsoft to do that.

    Microsoft doesn't mix privacy policies like Google, referring to a completely different policy means nothing.

    Now, look at Google's:

    Nothing about providing the service to you (like Microsoft states).
     
  4. NGRhodes

    NGRhodes Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Posts:
    2,331
    Location:
    West Yorkshire, UK
    Re: Google Drive is here

    I was referring to the privacy policy that is linked from skydrive itself, it may b e a different policy but it is a privacy policy that applies to skydrive.
     
  5. funkydude

    funkydude Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Posts:
    6,855
    Re: Google Drive is here

    It clearly doesn't apply to SkyDrive because SkyDrive has it's own dedicated policy right here: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-live/microsoft-service-agreement

    Unless you're trying to say of course that Microsoft has many privacy policies per product, which I have to question the sense of such a claim. To me it seems the incorrect one has been linked because SkyDrive is part of the Hotmail "section".

    Also, both of those sentences are under the headers "Personal Information" and "Additional Information" and as such clearly have nothing to do with uploaded content, but user submitted details such as your real name. You should click the "additional details" links which explains it all (not going to copy and paste the entire policy, it's free for you to read 2 lines above your cherry picked quotes).
     
  6. NGRhodes

    NGRhodes Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Posts:
    2,331
    Location:
    West Yorkshire, UK
    Re: Google Drive is here

    Yes it does apply to skydrive.
     
  7. funkydude

    funkydude Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Posts:
    6,855
    Re: Google Drive is here

    Cheery picking my post now too, eh?

    http://privacy.microsoft.com/en-gb/fullnotice.mspx

    Start reading, you'll see that nothing there applies to uploaded content. Why? I've already linked the policy for that.
     
  8. NGRhodes

    NGRhodes Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Posts:
    2,331
    Location:
    West Yorkshire, UK
    Re: Google Drive is here

    uploading is communication of data from yourself to a service.

    and the other agreements and policies include usage as mentioned by both of us above, includes for targeted advertising for example.
     
  9. funkydude

    funkydude Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Posts:
    6,855
    Re: Google Drive is here

    Uh, obviously. Both companies HAVE to comply with the law. I thought it was quite clear we were talking about profit motivations. Microsoft aren't going to turn around and use your data as they please, their policy assures that, but obviously they have to comply with the law the same as every other company in existence.

    Google however can do whatever they feel like with your data, and its legal because it's in their policy.

    Understand?

    edit: Also, I wouldn't be surprised if every company would feely hand over your data to the authorities when requested, such is the nature of cloud storage. Use a NAS if you need to cloud host sensitive data.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2012
  10. treehouse786

    treehouse786 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Posts:
    1,388
    Location:
    Lancashire
    Re: Google Drive is here

    the answer is in the text you quoted ;)
     
  11. treehouse786

    treehouse786 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Posts:
    1,388
    Location:
    Lancashire
    Re: Google Drive is here

    google;
    I'll admit that Microsoft's Terms of Service seem to be a little better worded, but to me, they both seem like the same thing:


    microsoft;
    could be interpreted in all kinds of ways. For instance, "Microsoft has chosen to use your files in promotional materials because it was necessary in order to provide the service

    the above is taken from the article you posted
     
  12. funkydude

    funkydude Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Posts:
    6,855
    Re: Google Drive is here

    Not really. For starters the service isn't advertising, the service is file hosting. You can't just turn around and assume the service suddenly means something else, that's not how policies work. You can argue that advertising is part of the service, but it's not, it's funding the service, which again is file hosting.

    You can do a lot of things with your files in SkyDrive, from modifying them to duplicating them to distributing them. However, to do that, you need to use Microsoft's SkyDrive "service". This policy is basically "let's cover our rear ends".

    On the other hand, Google's policy is "thanks for the data, it's ours now".
     
  13. NGRhodes

    NGRhodes Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Posts:
    2,331
    Location:
    West Yorkshire, UK
    Re: Google Drive is here

    I've already quoted where they stated information may be combined with information from others services and third parties and one use is for serving targeting advertising.
     
  14. funkydude

    funkydude Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Posts:
    6,855
    Re: Google Drive is here

    Nick, we're not talking via voice here, I don't see why I should have to repeat myself.

     
  15. NGRhodes

    NGRhodes Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Posts:
    2,331
    Location:
    West Yorkshire, UK
    Re: Google Drive is here


    Did you read the bit that states right after the bit you highlighted:

    Google state what they will use your content for, they are not taking ownership of users data as you claim.
     
  16. funkydude

    funkydude Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Posts:
    6,855
    Re: Google Drive is here

    Ah the good 'ol he proved me wrong, start debating about a different point move, good one!

    Let's put emphasis on it:
    Perfectly true (thankfully), my "description"? so to say wasn't very good. But you ARE telling them they can create derivative, and they can do whatever they want with them. So although your content is still your content, the content can still be reproduced and that can be modified/published/etc at whim by Google.

    At this point there is no denying that Microsoft clearly have the superior product for storage space, price, and even privacy (in the limited scope that cloud storage actually has). Other than the good old Microsoft hate bandwagon, ofcourse.
     
  17. NGRhodes

    NGRhodes Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Posts:
    2,331
    Location:
    West Yorkshire, UK
    Re: Google Drive is here

    Yes limited for use in supporting the Google Drive service, not to sell on or support any other of their services.
    Just like Microsoft HAVE TO be able to access the content of your documents so that you can edit them online, view them in your browser etc.

    Very similar IMHO each with their own advantages. I use both personally :)

    Cheers, Nick
     
  18. funkydude

    funkydude Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Posts:
    6,855
    Re: Google Drive is here

    Maybe by Google, but "those we work with", well, that's a risk you'll have to take I guess.
     
  19. NGRhodes

    NGRhodes Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Posts:
    2,331
    Location:
    West Yorkshire, UK
    Re: Google Drive is here

    Anything that I can't risk being divulged or made public does not go near the Internet.

    Cheers, Nick
     
  20. treehouse786

    treehouse786 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Posts:
    1,388
    Location:
    Lancashire
    Re: Google Drive is here

    exactly! spot on nick.

    always assume that everything you upload on the internet will be viewed, i encrypt my uploads so its all good.
     
  21. guest

    guest Guest

    Re: Google Drive is here

    The big differences in real world are these:

    * Data possible of being collected by bad employers of Microsoft and its partners = non-human readable (supports encryption)

    * Data possible of being collected by bad employers of Google and its partners = human readable (doesn't support encryption)

    * Microsoft's privacy policies/practices/controls got TRUSTe seals. It should be easy, for example, to disable personalized/targeted ads in Microsoft's services.

    * Google's privacy policies/practices/controls got no TRUSTe seals. It's harder, for example, to disable personalized/targeted ads in Google's services compared to disabling personalized/targeted ads in services from Microsoft and Facebook, which got TRUSTe seals.


    Don't believe in what I wrote? Don't take my word then: research, test and compare. The same conclusions await you.

    And this, in a nutshell, is why Microsoft can slam Google's privacy policies like it did recently.
     
  22. NGRhodes

    NGRhodes Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Posts:
    2,331
    Location:
    West Yorkshire, UK
    Re: Google Drive is here

    Encrypted is a red herring in this. The decryption key must be stored (and ifs its a user submitted password its far far too weak to useful (brute forced in seconds) . If the data can be viewed in the browser they must hold the decryption key to use it to decrypt your data to be able to view in in your browser.

    The TRUSTe requirement (http://www.truste.com/privacy-program-requirements/program-requirements)

    Google does link to how to manage targeted advertising in their privacy policy (which is linked on their homepage). It would comply (there is no harder/easier as you mention).
    Just because Google does not choose to have a TRUSTe seal does not mean it is less private.

    I've researched your examples and quoted my responses and have got different conclusions.
    Google may have worse privacy, but your examples were all unfounded.

    Which turned out to be very factually inaccurate as refuted http://googlepublicpolicy.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/busting-myths-about-our-approach-to.html
     
  23. guest

    guest Guest

    Re: Google Drive is here

    Nice. I hope this is going to be another "multiple pages" discussion. :cool:

    Nope:

    Also see: https://account.live.com/ManageSSL

    Also read: http://www.truste.com/blog/2012/01/30/google-competing-on-privacy/

    Did you try both controls?

    This may or may not be related to having TRUSTe seals (I personally believe it is related), but Microsoft's and Facebook's personalized/targeted ads are far easier to disable. Their privacy controls are powerful and simple to use.

    With Google, you have to deal with several text walls and pages, plug-ins (yes, you need to use a browser plugin to disable things like Google's DoubleClick via "Google's supported methods" and another browser plugin - IN BETA - to disable Google Analytics), buttons etc.

    Compare that mess with this:
    https://choice.live.com/Data/Dashboard/MyChoices/MSAdvertising
    http://www.aboutads.info/choices/

    Try accomplishing the same task with the officially provided "supported methods". Disable personalized/targeted in Google's services, in Microsoft's services and in Facebook's services and tell me your experience in terms of complications.

    Try again.

    That refutation is full of errors and misinterpretations. My favorite one is this blatant lie: "Microsoft has no data liberation effort or Dashboard-like hub for users"

    O rly? Let me present you these (again):
    https://choice.live.com/Data/Dashboard
    www.aboutads.info/choices/

    And if you want to learn more about why Microsoft takes privacy serious, I recommend these links:
    http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2012/02/23/protecting-consumers-privacy-online.aspx
    http://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/default.mspx
    http://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/fullnotice.mspx
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2012
  24. NGRhodes

    NGRhodes Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Posts:
    2,331
    Location:
    West Yorkshire, UK
    Re: Google Drive is here

    Nah it won't be a multi page effort :)

    The Microsoft quote you give, shows they do store the decryption key as I said.

    Can you tell me how you navigate from any of the Microsoft privacy pages to https://choice.live.com/Data/Dashboard as I could not find the link, probably why Google incorrectly stated they have no dash.

    Cheers, Nick.
     
  25. guest

    guest Guest

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2012
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.