Spoke to soon. On inserting to test my SD Card loading got an instant Blue Screen! But that is the usually expected driver issue as always with each new O/S. I detest drivers with a passion simply because there are gobs and gobs of those and you have to often times search like a needle in a haystack to find the most exact compatible one(s) that finally seat itself right to get such minor issues like audio-video-Smart Card Readers etc.to function as expected. No biggie really. Also, please don't laugh at my ancient abandonware ways but i just had to try to also install the old DiskTrix Ultimate Defrag on this Win 10 and low and behold, that took like a hand in glove too. This user is just too set in his ways to not roll over previous versions of some old software's others have long since given up on that i always have found quite useful, and apparently still do
Won't help. W10 still sends your unique identifier, machine details and god knows what other stuff over https encrypted channel to their servers. They even admitted that awhile ago that there is no way to disable telemetry completely. No matter how much you tweak W10 registry, it's hosts file or install all those various "stop W10 spying" apps (all they do, is basically just those previously mentioned registry tweaks and hosts file changes) won't help you to keep W10 private. Microsoft can, and will, know who you are, what software you have installed, how long you have been running it, what you are clicking and what you are typing. All thanks to it's integrated spying features which cortana is a major part and which you can't even completely disable in new anniversary update http://www.pcworld.com/article/3100...ana-in-the-windows-10-anniversary-update.html And hacking group policies for those owning W10 Pro isn't option anymore either http://www.ghacks.net/2016/07/28/microsoft-removes-policies-windows-10-pro/ So basically, you have zero, zip, nada privacy with W10.
Well with no internet, the privacy is way more achievable, Windows is as dumb as Hitman Pro. Not to mention removing Cortana, disabling services, logging and setting telemetry to zero. reg add "HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\DataCollection" /v "AllowTelemetry" /t REG_DWORD /d "0" /f reg add "HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WINEVT\Channels\Microsoft-Windows-Application-Experience/Program-Telemetry" /v "Enabled" /t REG_DWORD /d "0" /f reg add "HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\DataCollection" /v "AllowTelemetry" /t REG_DWORD /d "0" /f
Yup, and yet Windows 10 is still about as tight as swiss cheese. In Windows 10 the holes are smaller, but still there; this has been proven already. As you say below, its not free. Further, they charge for windows 10 now; they gave it away for free to get Windows 7/8/8.1 users into their "pay for apps" model, and to get more user data for selling to advertisers. True, but then why is it ok to argue on their behalf while its not ok to argue against their position? "Foolish thinking" is an indirect ad-hominem attack directed at anyone who does not subscribe to your viewpoint that telemetry is good, or that the scope of it is acceptable. Also, Linux doesnt use telemetry- its more stable and has better security than Windows 10 ever will. Im not arguing it has the software catalog of Windows 10, but that is for reasons other than telemetry. How can they improve feedback? Use a bug tracker and collaborate with others for solutions; telemetry is not the only way, and rest assured thats not the main reason they forced it. They could have made the telemetry default (most users would never turn it off), but gave power users the option to disable it- they didnt. That is for very specific reasons- they do not want you to have choice, and they want to know what youre doing. All of these technologies only marginally increase security. The only real security on Windows is the matter between the two ears on your head. Time and time again results have shown that windows gets PWNED, and that the scope of PWNage is much greater than other options. As you note below, it isnt free. Its a tactful move made in the pursuit of profit. Really? It looks to me like they just adopted flat-style theming and called it a day. I think it looks good, but I dont think the GUI is all that fancy. As far as cool features, I mean every OS/desktop environment has those; the statement is too vague to really mean anything other than to offer support for Microsoft's product. There's a big difference between the gov getting a court order to gain access to one's data, and corporations doing it all the time solely to make profit by selling one's computing habits to advertisers. Im willing to bet the NSA has hacks that can exploit/beat any operating system (Windows 10, OSX, Linux, etc). However, simply giving up constitutional rights for the sake of apathy is a fine recipe for eventual corporate and governmental oppression- they will keep going until the people stop them. Power knows no line of taboo- no bridge too far- no line beyond which it wont cross. Our society is not "privacy-breaking based." The opposite actually. We in the US and most other western countries to some extent have a right to privacy enshrined in our respective governmental doctrines. Our "privacy-breaking" society is born from greed and the desire for power. I agree 100% with the statement about free. However, "...deal with it (and stop whining)..." I do not agree with. Your entire response defends Microsoft and in a few places you stand on your soapbox implicitly defaming those with a contrary opinion. How is it ok for you to whine about the whining of others, but our whining about a product is not allowed? You have your right to debate the opinions of those who "whine," and the whiners have every right to make their opinions known. Especially in a thread called "This is why I hate Windows 10." Dont say we can "vote with our wallets" either. Microsoft has used monopolistic strategies to secure a position to make obscene profits off of an innately inferior product. "Whining" is attempting to use emotion or logic to make socially known what one sees as a problem; do not tell others what they can or cannot say lest you become another one of a long line of tyrants- however small in your case- that have dictated the "right way" for all of human history- usually at the cost of rights, usually paid for with someone else's blood (or the blood of many other people), and usually without concern for the governed at all. You said it best- Microsoft is a business, not an establishment of charity. Business has proven time and time again it will do anything for money, and the ire of their customers is the only means of checking their greed. Finally, you and I obviously dont see eye to eye. I refrained from responding to your last response to me because I didnt want to make this some personal cockfight. You said in that earlier response that our conversation was getting off-topic because we were discussing rights and privacy- its not off-topic because what I hate about Windows 10 is exactly how it disregards (unnecessarily so) rights and privacy for the sake of profit and corporate power. It seems to me as if you need to validate their reasons in order to justify using Windows 10- its as if you need to feel good about your choice so that you can feel your complicity isnt part of the problem. Got news for you- complicity is the only reason that Windows 10 and all the other privacy invasive crap in this world exists.
Sometimes the wiser course of action is to steer well clear...... especially when certain voices who you've come to listen to and learn from, express their concerns about issues and especially privacy issues. A MS OS? XP for me thanks. I cut my teeth on this OS, prodded it - did this and that from a total learners aspect and it was as stable as I needed it to be, for well over a decade without a re-install. I am too scared to put my W7 computer online for fear of this nonsense of what MS is up to. This "feature creep" is unacceptable. I cannot understand how people just roll over to this wholesale spying and call it OK, except to say they've been brainwashed into relinquishing their privacy for bells and whistles. Therein lies the trap. I do not EVER want to get anywhere near W10 let alone try it.
Agree whole heartily on this "Well with no internet, the privacy is way more achievable, Windows is as dumb as Hitman Pro" And in the interest of automation locally, this is exactly how i am going to proceed until a way is determined (if ever) for relieving this O/S of all the snoopy crap that is seriously as stupid and dumb as a box of rocks. Anyone who followed my posts from years ago know my deep suspicions regarding $MS so-called security updates and is why i would only go so far with those and Stop(). With Windows 10 (and to a much lesser extent Windows Eight, my suspicions way back then have been fully exposed just as i one day expected that they would. No matter though, with that in mind it was always determined on this end should that be the case, which it has mostly now, one can simply DISCONNECT it from the internet (breaking the peeping tom syndrome) and simply use the O/S with it's newfound performance and stability to achieve other goals in automation, designing etc. completely free of interruption. Oh by the way, as expected, for me that Cortana and Edge ordeal is a flop. I might try to hack a way to run the Cortana separately then it's dependency but if not there are plenty of 3rd party substitutes that can fill that vacancy without having to funnel a ton of your activities with it into the $MS vacuum system data collectors.
who said the opposite? what advertisers ? im using an MS account since win8, i never get any spam emails from any company partners to MS. never say it is not ok, but those who complains have to understand first how MS makes business. I talked about the feedback telemetry so MS can improve the OS and those who disable it and at same time whine about Win10 having bugs. By the way , you don't own Windows remember? come on... every OS get pawned; but since Win8/10 the number of infected people is reduced, i can see that on some of my customers. they don't call me anymore for infected computers but more for internet connection/drivers /hardware issues what you expected lol. they gain money, i dont have to pay my OS every 2 years ; it fair to me. that is just a question of taste; honestly i dont care of the look it has, i more interested about the usability and security an OS has to offer. If i want a fancy looking OS, i still have my Kubuntu tweaked system Im still not harassed by those advertisers you mentioned. And you still believe that government protect your privacy? no , mate, they just bypass the law because they are The Law; they don't need a court order , they just do it ; they do in the shadow the exact opposite of what they claims to do for your rights... if they can send/recruit undercover spies in foreign countries to gather valuable infos, imagine in their own country... You can't stop them, even with your vote ; presidents changes every times , the secret agencies never. Especially now, with all those terrorists events, they have even more reason to spy on everybody , you can see on the actual elections in USA ; they want more cyber control...how you think, they will do that ? The fight for privacy was lost since telecommunications were born. it is naive to think you ever had real privacy. Having Privacy and not being scrutinized (yet) is not the same thing. i dont defend MS, i even dont care of this company , they do nothing for me and i don't expect to do anything for me that does not benefit them. My stance is you like you keep, you don't like you move and stop whining. Are people so masochist that they use things they dont like? No, just stop buying/using, complaining will not help , they will just find another workaround to do the exact same thing while your ego will be satisfied... Justify what? lol, i don't need justification to use anything, as i keep saying : something gives me more benefits that cons , i use it ; if not i ditch it. simple as that. look at that analogy: you heard of a restaurant (Win10) ,the advertisement said "free meal until..." (Win10 free period), the menu and meals are attractive and fit your liking (security features, etc...) , so you decide to give it a go. you enter , the reception ask you if you want give them your email for getting special features (MS account), and if you want then share some infos to Ms Cortana so she can help you in your future choices (Cortana and other features associated). then after accepting you seat at your table (login win10) , you order your meal (use win10) , the cashier is recording your choices, but you pinpoint that the employees observing and reporting your behavior (the infamous telemetry) ; you ask Ms Cortana , why they do that ; she say it is because next time you come you will have a better experience and so they also can improve their services (MS motto). After leaving the restaurant, you went home and heard that some of your infos were shared with partners of the restaurant. Question: if in any moment since youentered the restaurant you didn't like something, what you do from now ? keep going to the restaurant or find another one that suits you better ? this is my whole point. Windows is not forced to you; you like you keep , you don't like you move. @Anonfame1 we have a different PoV of the thread ; you are more worried about your rights and i can understand that ; i'm more irritated by some part of the complaining people.
Technology companies started to invade privacy slowly and every time they extended their surveillance they presented those changes to users as something they would want (another free feature, another convenience...). We accepted such practice and before we knew it everybody was invading our privacy and selling our data. I was hoping that MS wouldn't introduce such data collecting practice in their desktop OS, but I guess that at the end money talks. There is practically no law that would protect user privacy and whole privacy situation is just like on wild west with no sheriff around.
Exactly, internet is the WWW (wild wild west ^^), the only solution? a massive EMP over the whole planet, no more coms , no more spying ; but i guess nobody wants it
Who will have the resources, time, authority and ability to check and enforce the said laws? In a perfect world , the government would do that , but we are not in a perfect world and the governments are the first ones to break the said laws if they need. Some even pretend (fabricate?) good reasons to do it.
Yes, and if people that elect the government are OK with it, or don't complain about it, they really don't have a reason to impose any laws. So it's on regular people to fight back. If a right to privacy was taken away from people (or if we sold it for nickles and dimes) then it's on people to get it back.
The governments will just say, "we need to dig-in your privacy a bit more to make you safe..." , who will oppose that : sacrifice the online privacy of the few, for the real-life safety of the many? if you are a non-criminal internet user, it is very easy to get a decent privacy; you have many ways and tools. The only thing you can't hide from is your ISP. Privacy is a variable notion, dependent of the users and their environment, some cares, others don't. If you care a lot, don't use things that will invade it... simple as that.
Following this logic it would be best to put cameras in all our homes and stream it to police who will monitor all our moves. In reality this doesn't work - less privacy doesn't guarantee more security. Yes there are many tools, not much of them can help against Win10 snooping. That's not true. VPNs, Tor... Yes it's the same as with security - some care others don't. Yes, I agree. That's one of the reasons why I don't use Win 10 and why I posted this under "This is why I hate Windows 10" thread.
Somewhat tangentially - I'm trying to put together a DIY W10 gaming rig for son. I happen to think that the W10 story on secure boot and TPM protection with Bitlocker is worthwhile. BUT - here's the problem, which illustrates how MS apparently see their market: W10 home is $120. It doesn't have bitlocker, but will do device protection (FDE) IF you have a TPM2 chip. But TPM2 is only available on tablets and a few integrated barebones or workstation/server boards (e.g. Intel NUC). It isn't available on any retail atx mobos. The TPM2 provision is supposed now to be mandatory on certified hardware - IOW, from system providers, which precludes the DIY. W10 "pro" is $200. It does do bitlocker and will work with TPM1.2 which is more widely available, even in retail. But for reasons I've covered elsewhere, "pro" is not pro - you cannot get a version of W10 which has enterprise facilities in retail, however much you pay - and you'd have thought $200 is a princely sum for a retail OS which is dodgy from a privacy pov. In conclusion - I either buy an system from one of the usual suspects and modify it, or I stick with DIY and get W7Pro instead. Nice work MS.
The implication of continually mentioning their "security" strategies is that it accomplishes something. Even below you mention that Windows 10 isnt really infected often now, yet here you agree its swiss cheese. Which is it? It cant be both. I think their idea is to sell the data to advertisers for profit. As of yet, we dont even know if they plan to use that information for ads within the OS, via email, or some other as-of-yet-undisclosed medium. The point is that you do not have a choice what happens to that data, and you do not have control over what that data is used for. Its also important to mention- corporations and governments have demonstrated intimate knowledge of human psychology. They know that the best way to get what they want is to slowly but steadily inch towards their desired result; introduce intrusive telemetry, but dont make the advertisements intrusive.. yet. Then after the dust is settled, start introducing some limited ads relevant to collected data on usage habits. Outcry ensues. Wait. Dust settled? Push the ads to be a little more intrusive. Etc, etc... Inevitably, this will keep going until one of a few things happen: the people take an ideological stance and some social medium causes the mentality to spread like wildfire, or another product is introduced that has a better base model (making money in a more productive way than ads). Or I suppose, MS goes bankrupt (dont see that happening soon)... I dont have a problem with feedback telemetry- as long as it can be turned completely off. The biggest fundamental issue here for me is this: Microsoft has taken away choice. They have become the masters of your computing life; you can do what you want, but you will let them watch, you will abide by their rules, and you will be subject to further pestering even if you've paid for a license. By saying I dont own Windows, you arent being clear. If you mean me specifically, you would be wrong- I have a Windows 10 install that I have since explored but mostly avoided actually using. If you mean me generically wherein the "you" in your sentence refers collectively to people, that only further proves my point of how odious corporate hubris is becoming. Before you paid to get a product, and that product was yours for its useful life. Now, you pay for the right to use their software on your own computer. I mean really? This is absolutely ridiculous and how anyone can justify this is beyond me... And I said that every OS gets pwned. That does not change that Windows has the worst security model and by far the poorest security of any of the top 5 OS's in existence. Your anecdotal experience is hardly a sufficient sample size to draw any conclusions. Even if it is in fact less, that doesnt really challenge my fundamental issue with Windows. That you know of... yet. Who knows what shenanigans they will pull to get more money. Even worse, what about those who have paid for a license and now must give up their usage data as well? Talk about a price increase- pay for the license to use their software AND give them all the usage data they want. For what? Cortana? Some bolt-on security mechanisms that are easily defeated? A flat theme? Most the changes they made could easily have been adapted to Windows 7/8/8.1- Windows 10 is about a paradigm shift, and it is one not favoring the customers. Fair enough. KDE certainly knows how to throw some bling... And you might not be for awhile... It doesnt change that they collect usage data and do not give the customers they care so much about the option of disabling it. This is a gross violation- at least in the US- of constitutional rights. Just because people are too complicit to challenge the ridiculous terms of service or challenge the stuff spewed from the mouths of MS' spokesmen doesnt change that fact... No, I dont believe that at all. I believe that the US government at least has been perverted by power, exploited by lobbyists in the pursuit of corporate profit, coerced by the military industrial complex, and ultimately bested by the banking sector. The government does not represent the will of the people at all, and much of its incursions into the personal sphere are a reflection of what interests the government serve. I am not naive or deluded about the poor state of the American Republic. "Complaining" is not a crime; "complaining" is a social means of communicating one's perception of a problem within a given social sphere, and it is protected by virtually every governmental doctrine in the western world. Any attempt to censor it in regards to me will- respectfully- be met with more complaining and complete defiance. As I have done since 2007, and not just for privacy reasons. Whining is not a crime. If others choose to ignore the complaints, thats fine. Already done, but this isn't really about me. Fair enough. With a restaurant (just like retail stores that actually try this sort of thing), I can simply say "no thanks." Restaurants wouldnt dare demand my email because they do not have the monopoly Microsoft does within their own sphere. I dont really find the analogy a good one in relation to this issue, but that is my personal opinion. And even if we assume that the analogy is correct, it doesnt really matter- this is about Microsoft violating user's rights: they strongarm via their monopoly, they legitimize through obfuscating legalese, and they rely on people rolling over like they keep on doing. Since were using figurative examples to make our points, imagine this one- tomorrow MS realizes a problem: "hey bob, why arent we getting any telemetry data or usage statistics?" "Dunno John." They are made aware of a post on reddit that has been voted to the top. It reads: "Dear Microsoft, We are all tired of your strongarm tactics, your complete disregard for our rights, your insistence that you own software we paid for, and your disdain for us having any control of software we have purchased. We've all either switched to Mac, or have installed Linux. If you wish to have us back, allow us to disable telemetry and allow us to control completely the data your company personally retrieves from us. If not, enjoy bankruptcy. Signed, The World." Of course this will never happen, but its a thought exercise. What would MS do? They would release an update that would give control in this regard back to the users. This is the point of social relations between people- to communicate realities of one's environment or social sphere, and to collectively react to the issues discussed. "Complaining" is part of this function. Your responses are so heavily self-defeatist in regards to us having power. Even more troubling though is how nonchalant your responses seem in regards to their incursions on your sovereignty as a human being. "Deal with it." "Privacy is dead. Dont fight it- just lube your ******** and go with it." Indeed- whether this is your intention or not- it comes off as you defending and even lauding their policies. They rely on this. They rely on people feeling powerless- because that makes them more powerful, more able to get away with further money-grabs, and more able to control us. And yet, we keep letting it happen, and we keeping hearing the chorus that says it isnt so bad, its just the way it is, etc. It almost seems like a corporate/governmental version of Stockholm Syndrome... We finally agree on something I do not understand why you are irritated about people complaining, but that is your choice. That said, its much better to be irritated by someone's opposing opinion than to have some entity censor complaints altogether.
Those are easy to counter: fake and expendable emails; adblockers; i use those methods since ages far before win10; so i am never annoyed by advertisers. it was MS principle since the beginning, if it was not, Windows would be open source. It is what i meant, you just have the right to use it. Owning is being able to do whatever you want it it, buying, reverse engineering it, reselling it, modfying it, etc...; obviously you can't. To me Windows is like your passsport or money bill , you can use it but it is not really your property since some laws apply to it. sure, it can't compare to Linux but it get better , it is what i want to say. You know , if you create a business, it is for earning as much money you can, right? if not you would do something else. Now you have some people greedier than other, that is human nature. True, i'm French, had live in US , and i can say (with all respect) we are less "naive" than the common US citizen in many fields, and especially in internet rights to privacy . for example we force French websites to notify users that cookies are present and if they want use them, they just have to accept or deny. also check here: http://www.theverge.com/2016/7/21/12246266/france-microsoft-privacy-windows-10-cnil When Lobbies are involved, freedom lose. they will just find another way. for example instaed of perpetually creates connections to their servers (which reveals this whole privacy thingy), they will just wait you connect to MS servers while doing updates or downloading anything from MS. (i suspect it is what they did before, but since nobody really worried so they push it a bit further and a bit too far, now they get the backfire) This is not self defeatism, just lucidity. People can't do anything until you do a bloody revolution as we did in France in 1789.You want real changes , you cut all the heads of the hydra. Look at Snowden, now he lives as a fugitive and as a traitor to his nation by revealing the secrets. Look at that Russian athlete who denounced the nation-state doping of Russia, she was not even allowed to participate in the olympics, while the russian team could freely go... Complaining is pointless, they will just pretend they hear you, and will takes measure, but they won't ; they will just satisfy your ego, laugh at you and keep resuming what they did. They don't just rely, they make you powerless. You will laugh at this but read these sentences from Captain America movies: "HYDRA was founded on the belief that humanity could not be trusted with its own freedom. What we did not realize was that if you tried to take that freedom, they resist. The war taught us much. Humanity needed to surrender its freedom willingly. .... has been secretly feeding crises, reaping war. And when history did not cooperate, history was changed. Accidents will happen. HYDRA created a world so chaotic that humanity is finally ready to sacrifice its freedom to gain its security. Once the purification process is complete, HYDRA's New World Order will arise. We won..." Now replace HYDRA by CIA or KGB or other black ops agency and you see that is frightfully close to reality... Irak War which sole purpose was to harvest oil reserves, Vietnam War (which was a USA vs Russia surrogate war) to place american bases near Russia, etc... examples are countless from all countries... yes finally ^^ That is just me, maybe because i'm French , and we are the champions of complainers ^^ i'm tired of whiners, especially those who just are sheeps and have no clues of what they talking about, worse they use heavily the object of their complains; when someone post something about Win10 you always have someone bringing the privacy topic over and over, as if we don't know... Anyway, it is nice to debate with someone like you, having some background of what they talk about
For me, the important realisation is that the MS business model for their OS/app store has changed - whatever we think about the reasons for that, or how they've done it. Obviously, that's reflected in the W10 discussion above, but you'd have to acknowledge that it would also apply to W7/8 too via updates, to a lesser extent. However, given that they are turning the OS into an incredibly privileged cloud browser, with default access to the whole file system and keystrokes etc, that's not OK with me. As noted above, if you also expect to have people pay for that - with W10 Pro retail at $200, um, no thanks. The obvious response is to run the MS OS in a virtual machine and restrict access and what you do on that machine. Host can be a hypervisor or Linux with VM software. Gaming probably needs a dedicated machine. Increasingly, migrate to Linux based VMs and applications as time goes on, because MS retail OS licensing is very VM unfriendly. This approach meshes nicely with compartmentalisation and privacy generally. My feeling is that MS will need to address the SMB/Pro user-unfriendly stance they have now adopted (and which much of their business was built on). But, maybe they don't care or feel they have to play in the tablet space and make the land grab (like everyone else). They're late, and IMO there is a huge bubble in ads and Web 2 that remind me of sub-prime, but that's their problem.
This and this. Dry runs are the name of the game, to monitor level of acceptance, and timing for the next push. All the while the crayfish is getting cooked in the pot. People are so lethargic now they can't...or should I say won't, get out of their own way.
I must admit being always skeptical of $MS O/S's (on stability + performance) with each new release but ever more so with those so-called numerous security updates and fixes/patches , some that were necessary but not all of them all of time IMO. But just like anyone else, this all was oh so very obvious way back when what might be coming down the pipeline on the telemetry etc. There is always been Linux of course for online purposes while also one may choose to run Windows 10 offline if too much disjointed behavior is not your cup of soup. With all the massive outcry over the snooping aspects of 10 which is very convincing and rightfully so for many, some might easily miss the stability and performance refinements that bad ole Microsoft finally got around to improving on. It's enough for me (so far) to pull the plug on the "live" web tie in and enjoy making good use of running that puppy offline minus the headaches of 8/8.1 which is shockingly more efficient in that respect. Like others, I was first to cry foul and still do to an extent but also that O/S is also under MY control separated from the common network.
Love W10AU but triple-agree with this, you can see it with your own eyes, over and over again. I accidentally clicked on a stupid, very cleverly placed ad off one of Microsoft's own free apps, uBlock Origin stopped it (you rock uBO), flat out malvertisement on MS's own app. The point is, Microsoft has a good product but it's being hoisted by its own petard-- corporate venality, trying to make up for a vastly lost customer base due to its "handling" of Windows 10 release, your guess is as good as mine. Just trying to cut off the privacy-reducing culprits wherever possible.
It's a good idea to go to Settings...Personalization.... Start... and untick ''Occasionally show suggestions in Start'' Every little bit helps.
