this is *not* a virus

Discussion in 'NOD32 version 2 Forum' started by Carl Farrington, Jun 3, 2005.

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  1. rodzilla

    rodzilla Registered Member

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    This "should AV/AT programs warn about keystroke loggers, crack engines, keygens, browser hijackers, jokes, burps, farts, etc" thing was discussed to death years ago. It re-surfaces periodically, with the same tired old arguments from the "we should have the freedom to do whatever we like" brigade.

    Today, email is the most common vector for new viruses ... but it wasn't always so. With antivirus software becoming smarter and more efficient, the virus writers of the 1990s needed a way to propagate their goodies fast. It didn't take long for them to figure out that warez and crackz were the perfect vehicle, and even today the number of deliberately virus-infected (and Trojan) cracks and keygens online is staggering.

    CIH stands out as one of the most destructive viruses ever written, but it wasn't smart enough to become as widespread as it did on its own merits. Human greed gave it the shot in the arm it needed to succeed. Weeks before its first trigger date it was online for two days on a crack site as a "keygen" for the Windows98 Beta. At that time only NOD32 and AVP could detect the virus, and by the time the webmaster was alerted more than 44,000 copies of CIH had been downloaded. Guess what the reply of any of those 44,000+ people would be if you asked them "Should antivirus software detect keygens as potential threats ?"

    I can see where Carl is coming from ... his file isn't a virus and it's not really dangerous ... but the mere fact that it calls itself "firefox.exe" might give The Mozilla Corporation the urge to brand it as a Trojan.

    I guess the bottom line is that antivirus vendors, like all other commercial software vendors, are largely dictated to by user wishlists ... and we can basically narrow those wishlists down to "what the big corporate customers want".

    If the IT Manager of "International Mega Dollars Corporation" tells you that the Paris Hilton video clip is not wanted on his 250,000 PCs, expect to see "firefox.exe" tagged as "Win32.PH.Porn". :) :)
     
  2. FanJ

    FanJ Guest

    Dear Rod,

    Here's to you dear old friend:

    THANKS

    With my most warmest regards,
    Jan.

    And before I forget it:
    I consider the use of cracks as theft.
    Did the original poster read that well?
    Do I have to make it more clear?
    I HATE IT !!!!
     
  3. Firecat

    Firecat Registered Member

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    Rodzilla!

    Its good to see you; I've been reading a lot of your older posts.

    You have made an excellent statement with your post today, thanks from me too :)
     
  4. Carl Farrington

    Carl Farrington Registered Member

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    Rather than worshipping you and taking a sense or feeling from what you have just said, I am going to actually read, consider, and reply.
    Yes, we know viruses are bad. If only you'd realised that we're actually not discussing a virus here (as indeed you do later admit to understanding)

    Ever thought have being a salesman? or other type of quasi-conman? Yes of course the average Joe wants keystroke loggers and browser hijackers blocked. But as for jokes, burps, farts, keygens, etc.? I think the average Joe does not want them blocked on his machine. You combine these all into one category for us to give either a 'Yes' or 'No' answer to. Not only this, you also suggest the answer by including obvious Yes-criteria in the question.
    Thank you.
    I will leave now and just suggest (and indeed hope) that you take a small amount of your time out to learn a little about your own product. Actually, sod it, rather than just hoping you'll spot your own blatent mistake, I'll point it out for you. "Event occured on a new file created by the application Firefox.exe".
    Do I need to explain that firefox is the webbrowser that Blackspear used to download the file, hence firefox "created the file"?

    At least read a post before you decide to bow to it.
     
  5. Carl Farrington

    Carl Farrington Registered Member

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    I feel firecats worship should have gone to you. Although how many times have you had people complain that an illegal or immoral (but unintrusive and not-virus or malware like) file is not detected by the AV software?
     
  6. BlueZannetti

    BlueZannetti Registered Member

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    Alright gents,

    The thread has a topic - and it's not about gratuitous and irrelevant personal comments one could make - how about we stick to topical matter at hand? Thanks.

    Blue
     
  7. Triple Helix

    Triple Helix Specialist

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    That's the way I feel they are just Grandstanding!!

    Cheers to all and have a great WEEKEND!!!!!:D

    dagolag
     
  8. greg32

    greg32 Registered Member

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    It's funny, google's first link on this cracksearcher.exe brings up the author warning some dudes in spanish that the file he placed for download for them is infected with a virus or something. Another dude says most of the crachsearcher.exe downloads contain some virus.
    I wont link it, but you can search.

    Cheers
     
  9. Carl Farrington

    Carl Farrington Registered Member

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    Going back to this I suppose my point is that we shouldn't enforce our own ethics or beliefs on other people.
    We seem to have been diverging along the discussion of whether cracks are ethically acceptable. It is a persons choice whether they use cracked software or not.

    It comes down to freedom and freedom of choice, and with that comes any associated risks (fines, lawsuits and extensive costs, loosing customers, having no software updates, having software which disables or de-activates or uninstalls itself once it's called home...).

    Risks associated with the choice that has been taken. Just like the risk someone might take by exceeding the speed-limit on a motorway by 10mph for example.)

    This freedom of choice is important and the AV industry shouldn't be trying to control choice here, just as other drivers shouldn't be going out of their way to forcibly slow down drivers who they see to be exceeding the speed limit.

    The only valid counter-argument in this whole discussion has been the suggestion that companys might not want employees to be able to access a peice of software that can search for serial numbers and unlock-keys for applications. I do sincerely find this quite an inconsiderable scenario and will gladly elaborate if necessary.
     
  10. Carl Farrington

    Carl Farrington Registered Member

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    entirely irrelivent. if that particular version of cracksearcher.exe was infected with a virus, then the virus with which it is infected should be detected and removed, and cracksearcher.exe left in-tact.

    Yet more pointless drivel which without reasoned consideration would ring alarm-bells of "virus" to people following the topic.

    Consider your post cancelled.
     
  11. BlueZannetti

    BlueZannetti Registered Member

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    If you want to pursue the freedom of choice avenue, naturally everyone has the ability, or freedom if you wish, to break the law. Naturally, the consequences may be severe. However, it's not really incumbent on anyone else to enable this activity.

    Staying on this line, you also have the freedom to make choices with respect to AV's. The AV vendors have made a number of judgements regarding specific content which is covered, and basically they do this to cultivate a target audience.

    The simple fact of the matter is that your desires are at odds with the audience which these vendors wish to cultivate since that's where the business is. The business isn't on the fringe, and the point you raise here is decidedly a fringe topic. For that reason, there's a bit of a mismatch, and as far as I can see, there always will be with respect to the specific topic of your interest.

    Blue
     
  12. bigc73542

    bigc73542 Retired Moderator

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    From reading your Post's I see how misguided your views on cracks and warez is. It seems in your mind that all it entails is the risk of contracting some sort of malware and that it is just a personal choice whether to use it or not. Well how about the program you are useing a crack to steal. There is no argument that holds water that useing cracks and warez is not just plain theft. There is no excuse for that except possibly weak character or a poor upbringing and a lack of morality. Most of the upstanding members here have no trouble understanding the difference in legally useing software and stealing it. And in this country it is not just a personal choice to use cracks and warez it is against the law.
     
  13. NOD32 user

    NOD32 user Registered Member

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    I will not say now if what you have said is a completely true statement or not is, but this is true - men should always have the privelidge of conducting business by agreeing on a price for a good or service. If one does his part in this without the agreement of the other then he has made himself to be a theif. This definately impacts on others !
     
  14. bigc73542

    bigc73542 Retired Moderator

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    I can't see where this thread has any thing more to offer as it seems all sides of the subject have been addressed and is going nowhere so this thread is now closed
     
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