The unofficial Shadow Defender Support Thread.

Discussion in 'sandboxing & virtualization' started by Cutting_Edgetech, Feb 14, 2011.

  1. CyberMan969

    CyberMan969 Registered Member

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    I think that you are forgetting the fact that it is Tony - the owner and manager of the software - who decides these things, not me or you. I will remove the links immediately. I am just saddened by your 'dinosaurian' approach to all this...
     
  2. safeguy

    safeguy Registered Member

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    I don't get all of this nonsense.

    Both are "Official" in their own rights. Both have gotten permission/approval from Tony. 1 is a forum while the other is a FB page. It's not like the FB page is competing with the forum or undermining sdmod's hardwork. They are just not the same thing. 2 different managers for 2 different purposes. 2 different 'sites' to target different audiences. Anyone is welcomed to join whichever one chooses. You can join 1 or both - no obligations. There's no requirement to be part of the "evil" Facebook whatsoever so anyone who chooses not to join FB still have their rights respected. Oxymoron or not is a totally different subject matter.

    So, what's the fuss? Unnecessary drama over nothing. Too bad to see such an early divide between 2 folks with the best intents for SD. New visitors/users might observe this split and this may unnecessarily cause doubt upon SD and it's community's reputation (when both folks actually meant things for the better). I'm pretty sure Tony didn't see this coming...he would have agreed because he thought the 2 could co-exist (if not at least practice tolerance). Alas...

    Just my opinion...
     
  3. Peter 123

    Peter 123 Registered Member

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    I completely agree with safeguy's point of view. :thumb:

    It is simply ridiculous how things begin to develop now. With negative effect on the reputation of the two "competing parties", of the SD community in general and indirectly of the product/software itself.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2013
  4. CyberMan969

    CyberMan969 Registered Member

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    I couldn't agree more. The Facebook page could make the forum grow as well, but Patrick would have none of it in his forum as he called it. I was forced to remove the forum links from Facebook because Patrick asked me to do it. He has also banned me because I posted a link to the Facebook Giveaway. I really don't get any of this. It doesn't make sense from a business or promotional point of view.

    Read my posts, then read Patrick's posts, and make up your own minds folks....
     
  5. sdmod

    sdmod Shadow Defender Expert

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    To me, this is an underhand betrayal and a conflict of interests and values, something that cannot be easily rectified.
    I started my little forum with no great expectations, to fill a gap where Shadow Defender was not represented and the members and users needs not served.
    Tony had been "missing" for years, I was left during his prolonged absense trying to keep the forum going (without the help or needed forum permissions of an active admin) in my role as Global Moderator, all of that time members were left in limbo with conjecture running rife.
    Eventually because of a massive daily invasion of child pornography spammers (who were nightly joining and posting pictures) and forum software flaw/bug the forum broke and became unuseable and members started to post on Wilders at Cutting_Edgetechs Unofficial Shadow Defender Forum.
    On Tony's eventual re-appearance and after much debate about his credentials I asked him if he was going to re-open the forum? He said he wasn't because he was afraid that the main website might be effected but that I had permission to open a new one.
    I told Tony that I was going to name it the "The Official Shadow Defender Forum" to denote the difference between that and the Wilders Forum. Tony gave explicit documented agreement.
    When I opened the forum members were very happy that they now had a legitimate platform for discussion and debate. The forum toddled along (with no further input from Tony)
    I almost had to beg Tony to post and he made one brief post but he put a link to his own site to denote the forums legitimacy.
    Every day I maintain and back up the forum and have kept spammers at bay thus far.
    I have written numerous emails to Tony without reply or with one line responses occasionally. Tony said that language was a problem for him (which I accepted) and I relayed that information to the members.
    Recently I have become more and more tired of Tony's lack of input (not even a "one liner" to the members and users) and then suddenly a member (who I had befriended) presents me with a fait accompli on my own site about some commerial venture that he has started behind my back and with claims of legitimacy and agreement from Tony.
    Neither Tony or Cyberman have had the good manners or respect to contact me by any medium. No discussion, no dialogue, no consultation.
    This might seem a little something or nothing argument to you but it has offended me deeply.
    Where I stand
    I will continue The Official Shadow Defender Forum as long as members need it
    I do not make a penny from it (and never had)
    I made my forum off my own back (and I'm proud of that)
    I have had great feedback from members.
    Facebook as a platform for a security product is just a joke.
    My ambitions are not for my own personal promotion.


     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2013
  6. CyberMan969

    CyberMan969 Registered Member

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    I am sorry that Patrick feels this way, but I think that Tony would have gone ahead with the Facebook page regardless of my help, or Patricks disagreement. He just would have found another person to do it.

    I have spend an immense amount of time helping Tony since October 2012. I have done it in my own time and with my own expense because I love this software, because I believe in it. I have extensively researched the possibility of the new features as suggested by fellow-SD fans, and have delivered lots of material to Tony that will help him develop such important proactive features. NOBODY CAN ACCUSE ME THAT I DON'T HAVE THE BEST INTERESTS OF SD IN MY HEART!

    I understand your frustration Patrick, and would never underestimate your immense contribution to SD, especially during the barren period when Tony was gone. But times change, and the ones who refuse to change along will them are destined for extinction.

    BTW how many members have signed up so far at the forum? Why should we limit accessibility and knowledge of SD to an 'elite' core of long-standing fans? EVERYBODY should know about SD, and a Facebook page is the easiest way to gain such exposure. All the rest is just sour grapes and bruised egos. And this is as much of a actual fact as a fact can ever get.

    I said it before: I refuse to be drawn into a fight with anyone. Peace, live and let live. I hope the forum grows and I wish the best for Patrick. This is the last I'm going to say on the matter (unless of course someone really twists my arm, then they'll hear it all).
     
  7. sdmod

    sdmod Shadow Defender Expert

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    Sounds like a veiled threat, I think we'd better "hear it all".

     
  8. CyberMan969

    CyberMan969 Registered Member

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    You only have to look at my posting history and comments in order to see what kind of person I am. I never fight with anyone; in fact a couple of people have attacked me personally in the past and I still kept my cool and didn't drop down to caveman/troll level. No threat at all Patrick. I want peace and I want everyone to get on with what they think is best. But I will not allow anyone to attack me personally. If this happens I will have my (strong) say, then report those people to the mods!
     
  9. sdmod

    sdmod Shadow Defender Expert

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    You said it, now spit it out. If you've got anything to say to me or about me let's have it.

     
  10. CyberMan969

    CyberMan969 Registered Member

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    Patrick lets not prolong this pointless debate, as it will lead us nowhere. I have nothing against you and I have always liked you as a person through the PMs we have had in the past.

    If we prolong this, all we'll get is further frustration and sore fingertips from furious keystrokes. For me, this is the end of this 'fight'. I hope the best for the forum and for you.
     
  11. sdmod

    sdmod Shadow Defender Expert

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    I wish I that could say the same, this is your last chance, Have you got anything to say about me as you imply?
    If not then don't contact me again.
    Any degree of respect or sympathy for you that I once had is now completely lost.

     
  12. CyberMan969

    CyberMan969 Registered Member

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    I've said everything I had to say, and I am most certainly not mad at you or anyone else. I don't like the fact that you banned me from the forum, but I can live with it. No hard feelings over here. I hope that time will heal your bruised ego. Discussion over.
     
  13. sdmod

    sdmod Shadow Defender Expert

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    History will show what has happened
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2013
  14. safeguy

    safeguy Registered Member

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    @sdmod

    I understand the hard work you put in and the frustration but I honestly think you should perhaps reconsider your position on this once you've calmed down. It's OK if you disagree with the Facebook page linking to the forum since you have the right to do so. I'm just inclined to think that this is more of a mis-communication than anything sinister on anyone's side. CyberMan could have put in more effort in contacting you beforehand but mistakes do happen. Perhaps in his enthusiasm to set up the page and with Tony's approval, he decided to go ahead without feeling the need to consult you further. I guess therein lies the rub. I honestly think it's best you and CyberMan969 sort things out through PM. There's no need to develop enmity or online war over this.
     
  15. CyberMan969

    CyberMan969 Registered Member

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    Yes, I regret not contacting Patrick again, but hell I was very busy with my real life job, and was trying to set this up properly at night during my free time... But I think that Tony would have done it anyway, with or without my help or Patrick's help. He would have just found someone else to do it.

    What I am most regretful is the current situation with Patrick. We had a great rapport beforehand, and now all this is in ruins. But there is nothing I can do about it now, this ship has sailed.
     
  16. sdmod

    sdmod Shadow Defender Expert

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    I disagree, I don't believe that this had anything to do with a "mistake" or "mis-communication" I believe it was stategic, intentional and underhand.

     
  17. bo elam

    bo elam Registered Member

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    Excellent post Safeguy, I feel as you do.

    Bo
     
  18. sdmod

    sdmod Shadow Defender Expert

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    Just to be clear about this
    I still have not received any notification from Tony.

     
  19. Robin A.

    Robin A. Registered Member

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    What about the SD website, which links to the Official Forum, but not to the FB page? Who manages this?

    SD organization now: a website, an unofficial forum, an official forum, a FB page, two self-appointed brand managers, one ghost developer... confusing.
     
  20. CyberMan969

    CyberMan969 Registered Member

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    It is up to Tony to decide what happens with the forum. He manages the SD website, I've got nothing to do with that.
     
  21. sdmod

    sdmod Shadow Defender Expert

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    Hi Robin A

    That is the developers site belonging to Tony.

     
  22. CloneRanger

    CloneRanger Registered Member

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    Why is it that Tony has communicated often with CyberMan969 since reappearing, but sdmod has heard hardly anything from him in All this time ?

    Why is it that Tony doesn't "seem" to appreciate ALL sdmod's effort & time, by having the decency to communicate with him, as he obviously has done & continues to do with CyberMan969 ?

    As far as FB is concerned, due to the fact that there are more div's in the world than not, & lots of them use it, i can see why vendors/companies choose to use it to try & reach as many people as possible. Sad, but true ! FB is not for me though, & never has been, or will be :thumbd:
     
  23. CyberMan969

    CyberMan969 Registered Member

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    I've got no idea why Tony doesn't communicate with Patrick. In fact I have asked him many times - since I started talking to him last October - to go into Wilders (and later,into the SD forum), and leave messages, talk to people, get involved. I also have the e-mails to prove it. He still didn't do it. So I got fed up trying and gave it up.

    Maybe Tony talks to me because we discuss technical things which he seems to like talking about. I am in no way as knowledgeable as he is, far from it, but I did a hell of a lot of research for him during the last 9 months. Maybe that's why he still talks to me. We even researched the possibility of adding pure snapshot functions to SD (like RX), but in the end it wasn't possible.

    Another thing that I noticed: Tony speaks pretty OK English, with grammar errors but you get what he says. But when you give him a text in English he finds it much harder to understand everything. He is much better typing in English than reading it. Maybe his wife helps him out (he's married and he has a young son)
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2013
  24. The Shadow

    The Shadow Registered Member

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    The bottom-line is that Tony is not that interested in interacting with his user base. For whatever reason he prefers brief one-on-one communication (via email) and has rejected any forum participation (either here or on The Official Shadow Defender Forum). The strange thing about his preference in this regard is that I recall him frequently posting on the old Official SD Forum (now defunct). o_O

    Based on my several email communications with Tony, I find that he often responds within a day or two, usually with a very brief answer. I believe the same is true of Patrick's attempts to communicate with him via email. I know of no evidence that he is ignoring Patrick or showing partiality to CM, but insofar as Tony supporting CM's Facebook page I simply see a businessman looking for more (and free) exposure for his product. ;)

    TS
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2013
  25. CyberMan969

    CyberMan969 Registered Member

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    Trust me, at times it's hard. I have to ask him things repeatedly sometimes before he replies, and the answer is usually short - but at least it's to the point.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2013
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