The unofficial Shadow Defender Support Thread.

Sometimes I wonder "What is the point?"
We have an existing "Official" forum which I have taken the time and trouble to setup and maintain and is linked directly to The Shadow Defender site.
It annoys me that Tony has only posted once on the forum and my emails to him are either unanswered or I receive a one line reply which has very little to do with the questions that I ask.
Now we are presented with a Facebook page! and tales of regular communication and correspondence. Nobody has had the good grace or manners to even mention it to me. It seems to be that I've been presented with a "fait accompli".
I must admit I'm a not too happy with the current "clandestine" situation or the way that I am being treated. I constantly over the years have tried to make sense of this situation and explain to users and members why communication with Tony has been/is so extremely thin on the ground.
Without the input from the developer the forum is lifeless and is only kept going by the good will and enthusiasm of the members
I will only keep the current forum going if members want it and I receive some transparency and show of will from the developer.

Patrick (Admin) The Official Shadow Defender Forum

 

Two forums for SD is too much. This Wilders thread has become too large and is difficult to navigate. It would be better to have only the current "official" forum, whether or not "Tony" participates, or a full forum with various threads here.

 

I think that The Official Shadow Defender Forum serves it's purpose as a dedicated forum and I've always been involved and interested in The unofficial Shadow Defender Support Thread here at Wilders and thought that there was room for both.

 

I agree that we only need one dedicated Shadow Defender forum, as it consolidates everybody's thoughts in a single location. Unofficial Shadow Defender threads at Wilders are also valid as they serve a slightly different purpose.

For my part, I would just like to say thank you Patrick for setting up an official forum and moderating it on behalf of all of us. It really is appreciated.

Kind regards
pegr

 

I couldn't agree more. I applaud Patrick's dedication to SD, and all related efforts on his part.

I have been an active participant on the Official SD Forum, along with some others, but (as Patrick has indicated) any software forum is going to have a difficult time succeeding without the developer's participation ...and so far (for whatever reason) Tony just hasn't been there for us.

TS

 

@Patrick

That frustration is completely acceptable in any light. The entire duration of Tony's absence you stayed throughout and generously made yourself available for any and all questions without regret. We thank you more than you know
In fact you single handily kept interest in SD going strong against all odds and in spite of Tony's absence. You are to be commended without end for such effort and enthusiasm.

IMHO you personally played a pivotal role in keeping SD alive and most likely responsible for Tony's return to revisiting SD once again.

For that you have all our sincere thanks and appreciation regardless if the developer will realize it or not.

Regards Easter

 

Personally, I never understood the hype about Facebook because for me it is not clear which needs can serve (or serve better) Facebook in comparison with a common forum/board respectively a homepage. I never use a facebook site for getting information or for communication. But obviously nowadays a representation on Facebook is regarded as a standard and as absolutely necessary by many people, companies etc.

So let's assume that CyberMan969 had good intentions creating the Facebook profile for ShadowDefender, the more as he writes:

But in any case I understand completely Patrick's displeasure about the situation, especially because it would be a minimal and necessary act of courtesy by Tony and/or by CyberMan969 to inform Patrick about their plans (or at least about their final decisions). This obviously did not happen as Patrick writes:

Let's still hope that there was some sort of "misunderstanding" that perhaps CyberMan969 can clarify.

Concerning Tony himself, perhaps we should not blame him too much. He does not even have access to Facebook and it seems that he simply agreed with an idea that was initiated (and presented to Tony) by CyberMan969 who writes about the creation of the Facebook profile:

So let's hope for some clarifying words by CyberMan969.

 

Thanks for your words of support everyone, much appreciated.

Patrick

The Official Shadow Defender Forum

 

No disrespect to CyberMan969, I wish him all the best with his undertaking, but I'm not now nor ever will be a Facebook participant. I truly hope the SD forum (and of course our own community here) continue to be the places I can go for info on this brilliant piece of software.

Cheers

 

True enough, but I do blame Tony for not participating in the Official SD Forum (more than one time)!

 

While I fully understand Patrick's frustration, I still think that the more people that learn about SD the better... and lets face it, every endeavour nowadays has a FB page for a reason. A Facebook page and a forum are most definitely not mutually exclusive; they are supposed to complement each other. Many companies have often have both in fact. The SD forum itself can get massive exposure via Facebook, prompting many more hits and new sign-ups. I posted the forum address on the FB page, it is right under the SD logo in a prominent place. I've also highlighted a prominent post prompting people to go to our official forum and sign up, this post will be shown on top. How can any of this be bad for SD or the dedicated forum?

BTW Patrick this is in no way meant to undermine you! I always respect you and I wouldn't willingly or knowingly do anything to undermine you. You obviously didn't get my PMs. I have sent you a PM weeks ago, informing you that Tony wants a FB page, and asking for your views and feedback on this and got no reply. I have also PMed you earlier on, (must have been about 3 months ago) and got no reply either. I need your help with it brother. Lets work together towards a common goal rather than argue about petty stuff. If you can spare any time at all, I'd love for us to manage the page together, and also assign a few other fellow-fans as managers. This should be a collective endeavour. The SD forum will most definitely grow with new sign-ups if we promote it properly though Facebook.

It looks like Tony's absence from any form of meaningful communication is a given. You can't force a donkey to climb the hill if it doesn't want to, or if there is no obvious carrot waiting at the top... So what can we do? How many visitors have we had at the official forum lately? How many new sign ups? It is not working, at least not in any meaningful way. More people should be exposed to the unique benefits of light virtualization, (and SD in particular), and it is not happening at the moment. A popular FB page can change peoples' perceptions of the software, whether we like it or not. Likes are very important these days, and a strong SD Facebook page with frequent and extensive participation by the fans/public can do wonders towards furthering SD's reputation to the uninitiated, to the people who will be SD's future fans and customers.

I see this purely from a promotional point of view: You can easily promote SD through FB and potentially reach thousands of interconnected users. Try doing this through a forum. It doesn't matter if one likes Facebook or not. A Facebook page serves a whole different purpose when compared to a forum. People can access FB on the go via a great variety of devices. Try logging in a vbulletin forum via an android phone, and see how easy it is to browse and post, then do the same with a dedicated Facebook app. There is no comparison really. Facebook offers a much more streamlined and optimized level of accessibility. And above all, it offers exposure! You can easily share your favourite page within your circles and see the page you like grow daily in front of your very eyes. How can any of this be bad?

If you were to hire a professional manager to handle SD as an online project, the first thing they'd tell you to do would be to kickstart a campaign though FB, Twitter, Google+ etc. and get as many hits/likes as you can. This is an absolute fact, the online reality of our days. Social networking sites can do wonders on raising the online profile of SD. People who cannot 'get' the importance of all this are most probably not fans of social networking, and are not thinking this objectively or from a business perspective.

We have to think towards the future, and the forum ALONE simply doesn't work. It needs the support of a popular Facebook page alongside it, in order to reach more people. I really can't be bothered to offer more explanations to people who cannot 'get' the obvious logic of this from a promotional and business point of view; you either get it or you don't. The truth of the matter is that we have already had 20 likes since yesterday already, and that was mainly from people I know. Imagine if all of us did the same.

Bottom line: It is a foolish assumption to think that the SD forum will suffer because of the FB page. The exact opposite actually. All of us should help promote SD and our official SD forum through the FB page, and we should be seeing more forum signups and hopefully more discussions in the future because of Facebook.

It is extremely important for us SD regulars to support and embrace this endeavour, the same way we did with the official forum. It is important for all of us with FB accounts to circulate both the SD Facebook page and the SD forum within our circles and friends. We must nurture this and let it grow, rather than pointlessly arguing within ourselves. The fact of the matter is that the SD Facebook page needs your help and support, and it can do wonders raising the long term reputation of SD and its dedicated forum.

I cannot manage this on my own. Just like Patrick, I am just a fan, I'm not getting paid for any of this, I'll be doing it for SD's sake, and in my own time. I will definitely need help managing the page. Our SD forum contains very knowledgeable members who could contribute greatly, provided of course that they have some time to spare. If anyone from our regulars believes in the apparent usefulness of all this and wants to help, please PM me. It's time to get actively involved folks!

 

To all Shadow Defender users

I personally don't like Facebook and would never use it, I find it an intrusive organisation that seems bent on monitoring every aspect of the users life with intrusions into their friends , relatives and loved ones business for it's own benefit. Users pay very dearly for any involvment with it in terms of the loss of privacy and personal security. It's just a massive information farm.
I wont be involving myself with the Facebook page or putting links on The Official Shadow Defender Forum.
I feel (with disappointment) that I have not been well represented and that this creation has gone forward without any dialogue or notification and I feel that there has been an attempt to undermine me and my efforts and present a "fait accompli" and I do not support it for these reasons.
Regarding contact, I have not received email, pm or anything else from anyone at all, at any time about this either at The Official Shadow Defender Forum, Wilders, or the given email addresses.
To put things in a nutshell, a Facebook page is not a direction that I wish to go in and I, as the owner and creator of the "Official Shadow Defender Forum" (with full explicit permission from the Shadow Defender developer for that title) will not be supporting it.

best wishes

Patrick

The Official Shadow Defender Forum

 

Thank You Patrick for your candid and up front approach and reasonable reservations regarding these matters.

Many of us support an honest view on privacy and don't necessarily blindly accept when you're platformed (like many) if you're made to look as though.you're not "with the times" or resist modern age communication means in the form of a Facebook or twitter social knowledge platform.

I personally respect everyone's own right to adhere to their personal preferences without prejudice or judgment.

 

Everything we do is being monitored anyway. NSA, Prism, Tempora, Facebook, Skype, Outlook, Google, EVERYTHING is being monitored. When you open Google and search for something there will be a trace of it harvested by a bot somewhere...

I am saddened with your reluctance to support this, especially when it's Tony himself, the owner of the software that wants it. We could be opening a whole new chapter for SD. The SD forum could grow further, out of the FB page exposure. But if we are not all on the same page, then there's no point in any of it...

 

I'm not on that page at all!

 

Regardless of one's personal preference or dislike of Facebook (as I already mentioned, I for myself am no fan of it) it should be appreciated that CyberMan969 explained the situation here at Wilders and - even more important - the Facebook site in the meantime (I think it was not so at the beginning) clearly refers to Patrick's Official Shadow Defender Forum (with a link and with a post). The statement itself on the Facebook site about Patricks Forum is very positive and friendly:

No one needs to visit or even love this (or any other) Facebook site, but I think that with this statement by its manager it is clear that with his initiative he does not intend to compete or kick out Patrick's Forum (as it was my suspicion too at the beginning). Rather the opposite: With this reference to Patricks Forum, I would regard the Facebook site even as a promotion of the Forum.

We do not know if Patrick was informed in advance by CyberMan969 about the creation of the Facebook site (as the one side says no and the other yes). But at least of what we can see and read now, there should be a chance for a peaceful coexistence of both sides: Patricks' Official Forum and CyberMan969's Facebook site.

 

Peter 123
Just to be clear
I was not informed, no dialogue occured prior to the fait accompli
I feel an attempt has been made to undermine my own efforts
I am angry about it
I don't like to be shmoozed
I do not support it
There will be no links etc or promotion of the Facebook site from The Official Shadow Defender Forum

 

I find it Very strange that sdmod didn't get those Emails & PM's from CyberMan969 ? The Admins on here would be able to clarify the situation, either publically and/or privately

 

I have explained everything on my previous huge post, listing all the logical reasons why a FB page is essential nowadays in order to promote any given product or service. Tony sees this purely from a business perspective. I have asked him again this morning to log into the forum and comment on the situation.

The fact of the matter is that everything I have done so far has been with the full blessing of the owner of the software. I didn't just go ahead and do it to antagonize Patrick or anyone else. I don't really mind if Patrick is not going to support the FB page or not; the exposure that SD gets through the forum is minimal at best. This software deserves so much more. Tony wanted a Facebook page done, and it's done.

Imagine this as a shop with a nice display at the front. The FB page is the "shop front", the thing that will get an ever-increasing number of people talking about the software, creating interest about it. The forum is the "shop" itself, the place where people will come to discuss all things SD and LV. The two things have different purposes and should complement each other. The purpose of the SD page is to educate people on the benefits of light virtualization in general, and of SD in particular. It's high time for light virtualization to come out of the freezer, and its unique benefits to become common knowledge and reach thousands of mainstream users worldwide.

I don't expect for everyone to be able to comprehend this or to agree with it, and I am most certainly not going to be involved in endless conversations regarding this matter. The FB page stays and it will continue to promote the forum regardless if Patrick wants to do the same or not. I foresee many new forum sign-ups in the future, thanks to the exposure that FB will provide. This the last thing I am going to say on the matter.

PS: Facebook security concerns may be valid, I understand all that; but there is a fine balance between getting real-life results, or yielding to pure security paranoia, doing nothing, and keeping SD confined in its quarters. To me FB is an absolutely necessary evil nowadays for anyone who wants to promote a product or service and wants to reach out to thousands. No one forces anyone else to visit or like the FB page, but existing FB users will eventually start coming in the forum thanks to the FB promotion. I really don't understand how a logical thinking person would be unable to 'get' the necessity of all this.

For the ones who want to see what the thing looks like but don't want to browse Facebook for it, I have attached some screenies here. BTW we have had 33 likes so far. Tony has also suggested a license giveaway through the FB page, this should happen soon.

http://shadowdefenderforum.com/index.php?topic=46.msg326#msg326

http://shadowdefenderforum.com/index.php?topic=46.msg327#msg327

http://shadowdefenderforum.com/index.php?topic=46.msg328#msg328

BTW Tony wants to kick-start an SD license giveaway on FB. I will keep you posted on when this is going to happen.

 

Cyberman969 I'm sorry, I can't tolerate this any longer. As I said I won't be supporting your Facebook page on my site.

Cyberman969, from Wed 17 July 2013 consider yourself banned from The Official Shadow Defender Forum
I ask my members (without let or hindrance) to freely make their own choice as to which site serves their needs best.
I thank everyone that uses my site and the members for their support.

Patrick

 

I totally agree Peter

 

That's fine, I can live with this. I will still promote the forum best I can anyway.

PS: BTW, you may have to change the name of your forum to 'unofficial' after all this. This is one serious case of 'sour grapes' on your part; and it will only serve to create confusion among SD users.

 

I would appreciate it if you would eradicate any links to The Official Shadow Defender Forum from your Facebook site, I don't want (or need) the association.

I think the members know which is the "Official" Site regardless of it's title; anyone can plainly see what has happened here.