The new MS VISTA and privacy

Discussion in 'privacy general' started by true north, Feb 2, 2007.

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  1. true north

    true north Registered Member

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  2. Pinga

    Pinga Registered Member

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    This is a must read. Thank you!
     
  3. mercurie

    mercurie A Friendly Creature

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    Yes, excellent read, MS response to the gentlemen near the bottom of the article is laughable. The conclusion drawn at the end is correct. MS could have done better. They are the dominate force. Not the content provider. :rolleyes:

    Time will only tell how this will work out and to what extent MS will exersise these overly restrictive embedded Vista licensed rights to terminate what it deems unwanted or harmful in the name of protection of copy rights and the users system.

    The concerns are many the comforts are few. I don't trust them.

    Thank you TrueNorth for the link. ;)

    EDIT: Referenced above the gentleman is Peter Gutmann and the article is: "A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection." Also some corrections made to my post.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2007
  4. true north

    true north Registered Member

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  5. mercurie

    mercurie A Friendly Creature

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    Thanks TrueNorth.

    Well there you have it. I was uncertain about all this "Media Rich" crap that was being talked about surrounding Vista. I will just keep going the way I am now...

    My entertainment where I really want "media rich" quality will be kept seperate from my PC experience. My PC is a communication, household business tool. That's pretty much it. :(

    As I have said before there is no need for me to rush out and get Vista. :( What a shame and no wonder there was so much delay. I bet the lawyers made a lot of money. :p Of course we are all paying for it.

    Oh well...:rolleyes:
     
  6. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    Yes. :thumb:
     
  7. Chuck57

    Chuck57 Registered Member

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    Fortunately, I just purchased a new XP computer. Hopefully, it'll give me a few years before I need to look at something else. Maybe by then, Linux will be similar in useage to XP. Or, I'll look to Apple. I'm damned if I'll have Microsoft telling me what I can or can't use on my own computer.

    The wife just suggested we buy a copy of XP and just put it away for when her computer finally dies - just in case her new one comes with Vista. She has a lot of older software she needs and uses regularly.
     
  8. Pedro

    Pedro Registered Member

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    Yes, this says not only about Vista, but our own OS we have now.
    If you don't depend on a program that only runs in Windows, run away!

    Chuck, some members have refered PCLinuxOS. It seems to have some features that will make the transition more comfortable.
     
  9. midway40

    midway40 Registered Member

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    Interesting. If WinDefender is the one that decides what an "offending" program is and deletes it, why not disable it to prevent it from doing so?

    When I installed Trend Micro's IS, it informed me that it was turning WD off as it was incompatible with it's own ASW. TMASW now shows up in Security Center replacing WD that was there before.

    http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/8158/secenterdn0.jpg

    To make sure, I bought up Services and looked up WD's process. It was set on Automatic but was turned off so to make sure it stayed off I disabled it.

    But since the definition of what constitutes as a "bad" program is kind of hazy right now, I have no way to test this. I would think a program such as Frostwire would send off MS's alarm bells, but who knows?
     
  10. itsmej

    itsmej Registered Member

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    Well I have been saying since i got hold of a copy of the beta Vista ,That this is a OS that you Dont own any more ,its more like rent a Vista,in ather words ,You cant run it if not loged to MS ,What i am saying ,LINKED,like it or not .you pay for a copy ,per pc,than you must link IF not its stops running after 15 days .this OS will nag you untill you link and regerster it ,than after this is done every time you start it it links to MS ..keeps a eye on your system .to make shure its you .no copy will run ather that the installed Version you Rented..Now PRIVACY .there is none .
    A litte advice here Before you decide to go and pay for a copy Think about this ,Any program you have on your pc Is dilited ,that includes 2000,XP any version.any thing else that you have will not run,remember you cant back install ,to what ever you Did have ..to rid it .you have to FDISK your hard drive to get it back .(Your Drive ).But any thing Els is GONE ....thats what happened to me any how .also you may find older Modems before 2005 may not even be seen by this os .Well my Dlink
    USB modem the os could not see .fialed to install the drivers that came with it .So it left me sitting in limbo.Could not get hold of a driver ,So be aware of what you have and DO ..you may even end up not being able to use a older Router..and thats Just some of it .....Oh yes IF you think you can have a ather Os on the same PC (xp & vista) think agian ..! not a chance ......
    itsmej
     
  11. chickenlittle

    chickenlittle Registered Member

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    So let me get this straight. The master keys to blue-ray and hd-dvd are out. Despite this, M$ decides to keep make you log onto M$ everytime you click on a mouse so "protect" this already cracked content. And then Jobs comes out against DRM. Hello Apple, goodbye Big Brother=M$!
     
  12. itsmej

    itsmej Registered Member

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    MICROSOFT - by MUTUAL AGREEMENT!

    The ENTIRE PLAN behind this unholy alliance is to FULLY CONTROL THE END USERS OF PC'S BY NO LATER THEN 2006 OR 2010 AT THE LASTEST!

    Control you ask? HOW you wonder? Easy answer - SUBSCRIPTION SOFTWARE - that's how! Just another way of stating 'RENTAL SOFTWARE' that you pay FULL PRICE FOR but have NO RIGHTS what so ever to!

    Longhorn WILL BE SUBSCRIPTION SOFTWARE! Simply stated, IF you don't GIVE GATES YOUR MONEY - after the 'EXPIRATION PERIOD OF USE' - your system will simply just shut down! That is until you RENEW YOUR SUBSCRIPTION WITH MS and let them REACTIVEATE IT via the internet or a CD they'll 'kindlyo_O' send you!

    DON'T BELIEVE MEo_O Well just keep on going and being a one of Gate's 'I'LLLEAD YOU TO THE SLAUGHTER SHEEP' and LIVE this FUTURE FACT - to your own doom and dismay!

    Think this is pure BS - DON'T make that mistake! It ISN'T - or gee, don't you now know how XP has to be REACTIVATED by most Users, IF they make a single change to their hardware, upgrade their system, migrate to different software and a whole HOST of other things and sneeky tricks MS uses. MOST of these happen in the background of XP and most Users NEVER even see this!

    DISAGREE with me? Aw, what a shame! Before you just DISMISS this as a load of 'I hate MS hype' - THINK FOR A SECOND ABOUT THIS. WHAT GOOD REAL WORLD REASON DOES GATES/MS REALLY HAVE OR NEED WITH HARDWARE 'DIGITAL CERTIFICATION' - HUMo_O

    What that means, in case most of those neysayers out there don't get it yet ... is ... it gives GATES/MS FULL CONTROL over your system, both in SOFTWARE AND HARDWARE - and that, equals to FULL CONTROL OVER YOU, HARDWARE/SOFTWARE SUPPLIERS, industry innovation and a host of other things!

    GATES is a worthless little 'dingleberry drip' with a Neopoleon complex ! His whole agenda is NOT caring about 'innovation' or progressively expanding the computer industry for the world, he only cares about CONTROLLING IT!

    But really, what company, software or hardware, can really ignore the huge install base already in place with MS software and OS - if they hope to make $$ of any kind and survive - few if any!

    Want proof? Read the Dept. of Justice law suit against MS - especially look into the 'exhibits' for the 'non-compete' clauses they (MS) write into ALL VENDOR agreements! It's about as IRON FISTED CLAD as can be written!

    Also, ask yourself WHY WON'T GATES LET ANY OF HIS OP SYSTEMS BE INSTALLED ON A MODULAR BASIS?? ? Letting the USER CHOOSE what/which is installed or not? THUS ALLOWING the EASY USE of 3RD party software without integration problems already well documented all over the web!

    Having spent MUCH time over the past 21 years with 'Wilber', oops sorry, Bill Gates, once you really get to KNOW him - you quickly realize that (in this writers opinion) he's NOT a decent 'fellow human being' - as he'd LIKE you to believe! (that comes from much personal interaction with him) - if he reads this, he'll know who's writing this!

    He's and his cronies at MS are just control and money hungry, power obsessed, self envisioned - maniacs! And USERS are LETTING THEM GET AWAY WITH IT! Look where the 'competing' software market from even a simple word processor has gone in less then 15 years - down to nothing! At one time, there WAS - Word Perfect, Ventura, Symphony, XY-Write and so on. Now, if you really want ANY word processing integration that won't crash, it's ONLY WORD or OFFICE - bam that's it! (and still not very good either - compared to others that died but were far superior to what MS supplies - even today! )

    Games? If the PRODUCTIVE SOFTWARE INDUSTRY has been FULLY TAMED, don't fool yourself into belief that MS WON'T over the next 5 years FULLY TAME that one, it already has to high degree of over 58%, not leaving much margin for anything NEW and innovative to come out. (remember those really neat virtual reality devices of the 90's? Where'd they go? how bout speech recognition integration too, 94 the first was introduced, shaky yes, but progressed, then poof, disappeared - almost entirely!)

    I don't need to say anymore. I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE to at least HAVE an alternate OS in place and WORK with it, Linux is OK for a start and there IS a lot of decent software out there for it and getting better every year! At least, IF you ever decide you DON'T like MS/Gates going to bed with you and your wife/girlfriend every night - you'll at least have an option to pick from.

    Just think about it - let your $$ talk louder then you - THAT is the ONLY language, MS/Gates will ever really listen to and maybe bring about some real change in a very stagnant industry.
    taken from a thread at :http://www.wininsider.com/news/?id=5034&page=2
    And this is So ...you cut Of the MS link - Dissallow -you get Nothing But asking to link (nag ) and after 15 Days are up your PC stops working .Thats it Try to crack it in any way ,After 15 Days You end up With no Booting your of Pc..
    You must regerster the Copy .No buts And ifs..Then Let your OS link to There DATA base ..No ifs or BUTS...
    ITSMEJ
     
  13. itsmej

    itsmej Registered Member

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    ok the above i posted you have to decide what to beleave ,make up your own mind here .myself i dont allow any Updates never have I have the very first XP made ,and all copys to the last one ,Xp with sev pack2 in one cd ..
    Plus kept all copts from 95 annd up most of them ..But agian never allowed MS into my system .nor let my systems link to them ...You cant do this with Vista .as a matter of interest you cant Just use it like any of the forunners .
    Like say just use it on a pc To play games or run with out the nett Thats gone...as i stated 15 days is all you have ...to pay up !! and VISTA will not run with any ather OS on the same pc ...understand that ..
    i also receved a disk from a friend Vista DEMO
    and the statement thus reading.....thank you for registering Vista,Your RC1 product key is BLA bla Bla...Now what we did installed it on a new Drive ok
    Gess WHAT after it was into it 3 parts of the way we got a BLUE screen,
    ok reboot and it did finish,than restarted the pc ,made the link and YEP .We got you have a ilegal copy sent by there data base ..and left us with a useless pc..every boot we got the same ,we wanted to see what would happen if we tried to install a back up ,Um yep it failed...
    Partner Demo Readiness TOOLKIT..MS was the os ....By the way this was done at the shop .all we did is put in a ather hard drive on the same pc! used the back up copy ,then fdisk that hard drive .installed the payed copy and it ran fine ...So if you think you can Share it around Think agian ....like all the Os made (95 and up to XP one could ..) Why Did not have to link Thats why
    plus not worry about having to Be ACTIVATED by MS-
    By the way Whats this got to do with Privacy ? you dont have it with this OS....
    again thank you for your time spent reading two posts..May you surf safely..
    ITSMEJ
    Just found this please read it

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,129148/article.html
    In part Some critics have argued that the new activation rules and reduced functionality combine to make what's essentially a "kill switch" -- a way for Microsoft to disable PCs running counterfeit copies of Vista.

    nonactivated PCs running Vista drop into what Microsoft calls "reduced functionality" mode. In reduced mode, users can only browse the Web with Internet Explorer, and then only for an hour before being forced to again log on
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2007
  14. itsmej

    itsmej Registered Member

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    MICROSOFT PRE-RELEASE SOFTWARE LICENSE TERMS
    MICROSOFT WINDOWS VISTA RELEASE CANDIDATE 1
    These license terms are an agreement between Microsoft Corporation (or based on where you live, one of its affiliates) and you. Please read them. They apply to the pre-release software named above, which includes the media on which you received it, if any. The terms also apply to any Microsoft
    · updates,
    · supplements,
    · Internet-based services, and
    · support services
    for this software, unless other terms accompany those items. If so, those terms apply.
    By using the software, you accept these terms. If you do not accept them, do not use the software.
    As described below, using some features also operates as your consent to the transmission of certain standard computer information for Internet-based services.
    If you comply with these license terms, you have the rights below.
    1. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS.
    a. You may install and use any number of copies of the software on your premises to design, develop and test your programs for use with the software. You may use as many copies of the software as the product key permits.
    b. You may not test the software in a live operating environment unless Microsoft permits you to do so under another agreement.
    c. Time-Sensitive Software. The software will stop running on 31/05/2007. You will not receive any other notice. You may not be able to access data used with the software when it stops running.

    Digital Certificates. The software uses digital certificates. These digital certificates confirm the identity of Internet users sending X.509 standard encrypted information. The software retrieves certificates and updates certificate revocation lists. These security features operate only when you use the Internet.
    MANDATORY ACTIVATION. To prevent its unlicensed use, you will not be able to use the software if you do not activate it as described during installation. You can activate the software by Internet or telephone; Internet and telephone service charges may apply. Some changes to your computer components or the software may require you to reactivate the software. The software will remind you to activate until you do.
    FEEDBACK. Because this is pre-release software, you agree to give feedback about the software to Microsoft. You give to Microsoft, without charge, the right to use, share and commercialize your feedback in any way and for any purpose. You also give to third parties, without charge, any patent rights needed for their products, technologies and services to use or interface with any specific parts of a Microsoft software or service that includes the feedback. You will not give feedback that is subject to a license that requires Microsoft to license its software or documentation to third parties because we include your feedback in them. These rights survive this agreement.
    **********************************************************this taken from there install Disk .So Understand You have No rights,and have Your privacy invaded ,If you agree with the above ..
     
  15. itsmej

    itsmej Registered Member

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    Interesting. If WinDefender is the one that decides what an "offending" program is and deletes it, why not disable it to prevent it from doing so?
    well you could But (Some changes to your computer components or the software may require you to reactivate the software. The software will remind you to activate until you do.) this may also apply any blocking or turning of The opperating of the OS...and linkings ,if say a product Is not digital certified ,the os will not lett you run it ,thats the Key No matter what program one tries to install,or Run ,by blocking any of the OS conponents,or running prosesses you may set it of and have to reactivate it agian ..Thus i keep saying You Must allow linkings,Updates ,give up your rights,to your PRIVACY,as far as your IP,pc ID,and what ever ather rights Ms decided on,that you already agreed on as you are using there Software...So if one agreed to use there OS ,be carfull what one tries to block !!
    "To make sure, I bought up Services and looked up WD's process. It was set on Automatic but was turned off so to make sure it stayed off I disabled it."
    Ok hope its ok ,But you could end up With the OS Setting you back to "having TO rereactivate your OS "
    My advice fore ppl that USE this OS be very carfull of what you DO Read all there is on there doc files ,Um you will get a suprize ,whats allowed and Not.
    Remember this is Not XP ore 2000 0r 98 ..This is a very different Cookie......
    on what you can and cant DO..


    itsmej
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2007
  16. midway40

    midway40 Registered Member

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    I have been running for almost two weeks with WinDefender turned off and even updated since then. So far no window with "Naughty, Naughty!" has popped up.

    Remember that Trend Micro was the one that turned WinDefender off to begin with because of incompatibility with it's own A/S. If WinDefender is so important to MS in trying to "control" what's on your computer, why did they not forbid Trend from doing this? Because they cannot.

    My "old" Intel 537EP modem which came with my 8300 when I bought it back in April 2004 was correctly identified and had it's drivers installed during installation. In XP I had to install these drivers manually.

    A lot of this is deja vu to me. I remember reading similar posts some years ago when Whistler RTM'd and became what we know now as Windows XP. A lot of paranoia, FUD, calls of "it will never be installed on my computer!" and yet I don't think that the same people are still using Win9x/Me. Just as it did then, this too will pass.
     
  17. itsmej

    itsmej Registered Member

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    Yes you probly are right ,and its up to ppl To decide what thy run on there systems ,as for the older OS ones, never had to worry about This .Digital Certificates ,or the So called must link to MS to allow A (OS ) to Run .But agian thats also up to You or Me as to If we want to allow Info from my or your pc Passed to there data base ..And so on .As far as i see it and always have .What i run ,Use,My pc or type,what i brows with,Is my Bizzness Not MS .Nor any one els.Unless i want it know ..and have the Freedom To allow it..Ather than that Its Somthing thats up to any person the decide Ether way ..The piont i am making is This ,KNOW ones software understand What one gets into ,be aware of what you or i allow ..ather than that, Best to any one using any OS ....By the way i still use 98 - and run 1 XP edd, never ever updated, first ,Upgrade (98-xp) .Thats it .(on the nett) And its all i need ,But then Thats ok for Me ..and happy with it .
    "By using the software, you accept these terms. If you do not accept them, do not use the software."
    I agree With this statement Made by MS-----and than on the ather hand
    Also, ask yourself WHY WON'T GATES LET ANY OF HIS OP SYSTEMS BE INSTALLED ON A MODULAR BASIS?? well agian make up ones own mind as to how one want to hadle it..I dont accept there Can and cant DO.so i dont use it..But thats Just me .and why we post different views on privacy ...
    if i may I am wondering if you are blocking MS From linking? also block any updateing,or Do you Just allow the OS to run as it wants in the Backgound ,
    also Do you filter Using a proxcy type Program? or dont worry about it.what flows out and in? just using MS fire walls and there Programs (TRUST) ms 100% to look after your system ? i asume Not But Just asking? thanks

    I love this Statement i read from one of the links :------------------------
    When Microsoft introduced Windows 95 more than a decade ago, it adopted the Rolling Stones "Start Me Up" as its theme song. As millions of consumers contemplate the company's latest upgrade, the legal and technological restrictions may leave them singing "You Can't Always Get What You Want."
    How true ...
    itsmej
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2007
  18. midway40

    midway40 Registered Member

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    Well, if you really want to not worry about WinDefender in Vista anymore, this will take care of it:

    http://www.vlite.net/index.html

    Better hurry before Bill finds out about it and shuts it down, lol.
     
  19. itsmej

    itsmej Registered Member

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    Ok had a look at the site .and it could be handy for ppl that want to use it
    and may be very helpfull if one knows what one is doing .I prefer to strip any os I use Myself ,and take out what i see as useless fore me to use .or have no need for ..Vista is not For me and realy if for Some reason all the ather os stop working over the nett than i would change to lunix os ..before using Any NEW MS ..Please any readers That read the posts Here is my advice ..
    if you the user are happy to go along with MS .DO so no matter what i post .
    as its Just one person Idea. if you dont well simple anser is Change your os to a ather one .or dont use the new MS .or any of the older one and perhaps change to LUNIX operating System ..I have never used it and cant tell any one about it.But have read its very safe to use ,But untill i can run (98:cool: and up to Xp what ever version as i have them From the first to the last XP made (on cds) i stay with what i know .and are comfy with .that would apply to any one ..If one like it USE it ..No matter what ..always take any posts made by my self or athere as a piont of View .No more or less .after all Its in the eye of the beholder .and meant to help .not a must do it becuase Itsmej posted it...or So and so siad to rid it ..we try to warn Where we may feel a program has gone over Bourd ,or where ones Privacy may be out in the OPEN .anther than that ,as always we want you the readers to surf safely ..
    itsmej
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2007
  20. midway40

    midway40 Registered Member

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  21. itsmej

    itsmej Registered Member

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    You see if a snake bites me two or three times .Um you think I can trust it again? and a ather thing i trust the devil more than Billy boy ..!!!!
    look at the history of the fellow, he is not a decent human!! look how he trampled on his friends! to get where he is ,and now with all his Cash ,he has changed !! Ehhhh Mate he is still the same !! power controle gent!!
    But like i siad I started with win 3.1 as it was the way to go ! And slowly it Just got worse ,and less Controle on how one used a pc .He killed DOS .WHY?
    well it made ppl smarter in how to use a pc! HEy billy cant have that Now can he ..Better make it simple ,Just click that Mouse .no more KEY bourd ,Well hardly ,just a few hits now and agian ,to make you feel Kinda inportant..and feel you can .
    now is slowly killing what you or i can and cant DO !! that why i stopped at xp .and hacked it dow to what i need ..trust this its half the size of the install disk .and i have freedom to run as i want .and dont beleave it cant be done ! also one dont have to install a OS,thats 1000 megs or what ever ! .the smaller the Better the less Junk the Better .trust this also, look how many programmers he has stopped dead! making them to run on there MS os !i dont know how many ppl started with DOS ,up to now But the ones that did Know what i am saying ,Dont misunderstand it ,its been good making Better ones to make it easy to run a pc..But at the same time its been used to kill of as well ,and stop ppl from learning how to program ,or change things around,i am talking the Home USERS....Stop them Knowing how to make simple Commands.or bat files ,or make a boot up disk ,ather words the Dummer the Better , or make up a boot menu, So and So on..After all we dont need that any More ? Just trust And Run blindly and rely on what a NEW os allow's us to Do...And just follow the leader ,and hope its all ok...
    and pll still say HEY trust billy he will look after you ,i read the url thats posted lots of fancy words,but billy probly payed him ...to say the fancy things to trust Him..
    comment from the link,
    ( if you can prove it. I, for one, know for a fact you won't be able to)
    thats correct one cant .Smart of billy uh!!its all hidden away ....in a nice safe OS where it cant be found! and you pll lett yourselfs link to there site every day !! and spy on you? Na billy dont want your info ,Ehhhh, like i say before you use billys new OS read the fine print that one agrees on ...and then install!!
    but than agian its all in the eye of the beholder!
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2007
  22. nadirah

    nadirah Registered Member

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    Post #9 of this thread shows that Windows Vista's nice looks are more of a multimedia presentation or show.
    I personally prefer the icons used in XP SP2 onwards. They look more down-to-earth.
     
  23. itsmej

    itsmej Registered Member

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    VISTA will not run with any ather OS on the same pc .,not exacly right
    it can be installed If you split the hard drive and run it on say d:\drive
    but cant be used , with Say 98,2000,Xp on the same drive.C:\ .where one could woth the fore runners , Like update any on them and boot the version one wanted to run.if you try to install vista on c:\where say one had xp (update) this will get wiped out (xp) and vista takes over ..now as for any Software ,being fancy or plane Dont matter to me . i dont mind a fancy program that looks pritty , or plane , So long as i have the rigth
    to run it as i want .and not the way the software wants .and allow me to disingage what i want and allow me To.Be able to Do so..
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2007
  24. dylanfan

    dylanfan Registered Member

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    Hi... Steve Gibson had a few interesting podcasts going on about Vista and this whole drm issue.

    You may wanna have a look:

    The interview with Peter Gutmann is here, while Microsoft's response is debated there

    Users who'd like to try their hands on something different than Microsoft's OSs without adding new partitions to their hard drive may give KnoppixLiveCD a try. I tried it myself last week and was so impressed I decided to intall the whole system on my hard disk, right beside XP. Now I can boot on any of them as I feel. Very nice! But the LiveCD itself is a wonderful way to test Linux and see what it looks and feels like.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2007
  25. sukarof

    sukarof Registered Member

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    Well you can have all of windows OS´s on C drive with a third party solution: Firstdefense ISR. I do have XP and Vista on the same drive and boot between them. I do like the looks and the feel of Vista but not DRM trash or what is written here.
    I will not fully migrate to Vista until someone comes up with a solution (legal or not) that gives me full control of my software. So until then Vista is not much more than a nice little browsing (and later on a gaming) OS for me :p
     
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