the most effective privacy software?

Discussion in 'privacy technology' started by siberianwolf, Feb 15, 2009.

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  1. siberianwolf

    siberianwolf Registered Member

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    hi folks,
    i'm new here. i've used many privacy softwares, from eraser to tracks eraser, cyberscrub to windowwasher. but in the end i came to this conclusion. evidence eliminator (from robin hood software, i guess) is the best, the most effective one. on the other hand some security softwares say it's harmful. plus, it's hard to say that the company updates evidence eliminator. the plugins are way too old. so, what software other than evidence eliminator do you recommend? something as effective as it is, but also not dated. thanks.
     
  2. emmpe

    emmpe Registered Member

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    I'm no expert in these things, but for what it's worth: EE has a bad reputation. Whether it's justified or not I don't know. Personally I'm put off by their obnoxious marketing and their ridiculous pricing. I use R-Wipe&Clean to tidy up my HD, it's light on resources, offers a nice selection of algorithms from just zeroes to Gutman for the paranoid, handles several scheduled erasure tasks and has a reasonable price - about 29$ I think. I also have the Distrust add-on to Firefox along with the obvious FF settings, and use the free Eraser for routine deletion of files. Just for the hell of it I run Cryptoswap Guerilla as well. I feel quite safe, but then I'm not (currently) up to anything bad.
     
  3. badjoey

    badjoey Registered Member

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    hi siberianwolf i have been using EE myself for over 4 years got a wicked deal when i purchased it.a lifetime subscription for 199.00 us which i consider a hell of a deal. i have tried all the other reputable products on the market and none of them are as effective as EE.and just for your knowledge a product like EE does not need to be updated monthly like most products and if u are an experienced user there is a tutorial on how to create your own plugins for any new products.and it s only harmful to your computer if you dont know what u are doing.also about the bad rep most of that is from law enforcement because they know they can not recover anything from a hard drive that EE is used on.
    i know this cause i have read several cases where LE have seized computers and the ones that had EE on them they stated they could not recover data from.
    yea they are expensive but how much is your privacy worth to you.
     
  4. emmpe

    emmpe Registered Member

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    Out of curiosity, how do you verify the effectiveness of EE in comparison with other apps?
     
  5. siberianwolf

    siberianwolf Registered Member

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    thanks.
    by using the most effective recovery softwares out in the market. (even hardware-based).
     
  6. caspian

    caspian Registered Member

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    I use R-Wipe and Eraser. I wouldn't touch EE with a 10 foot pole.
     
  7. emmpe

    emmpe Registered Member

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    Unfortunately I don't have access to such commodities myself, especially not electron microscopes and that kind of stuff, so I'll have to trust your word. What, then, is the qualitative difference between, say a 35 pass Gutman wiping made by EE and one by R-Wipe or Eraser? (I have to suppose that's what EE does? The vendor doesn't say much about how the software works - in fact the main selling argument seems to be that you'll get raped in prison if you don't use it).
     
  8. arran

    arran Registered Member

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    Why wouldn't you touch ee?
     
  9. arran

    arran Registered Member

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    are you able to provide us with some links to confirm this??
     
  10. siberianwolf

    siberianwolf Registered Member

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    first off, i ain't no fan of ee. it's just a solid, reliable software, that's all.
    as for the erasing methods, ee doesn't use gutman method, instead it has its own unique methods. here below, see it for yourself:
    http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/176/18021104ou9.jpg
    and these, too:
    http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3580/ee2in7.jpg
    http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2/ee3ck3.jpg
    when it comes to the marketing strategy they use, yes, it's totally aggressive and crap. just stupidest advertising technique i ever saw. you're right.
    lastly, my friends from several forensic labs (i know them because of my profession) tested ee, with the state of the art tech recovery tools (including, hardware-based) and the result was nil, they were able to recover absolutely NOTHING. i must add that, the higher erasing method you use, the lower the chance to recover data. greetings.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
  11. emmpe

    emmpe Registered Member

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    Plenty of links at the EE site - though they don't really prove anything at all, if you study them closely. The fact that an EE-erased file can't be recovered doesn't prove that you can recover from Eraser, right?
     
  12. siberianwolf

    siberianwolf Registered Member

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    absolutely true. i'm not making any comparison, though. besides, for daily tasks and general use, i use eraser, too. plus, i like the way it works, very nice FREE software. on the other hand, for massively huge, ie over 1 or 2 gb files, i prefer to use ee, because it erases huge files faster.
    consequently, ee and eraser are both very handy and good products, and canbe used together. plus, ee is more of an app to use for a system-wide cleaning, from time to time, with its ability to erase countless areas of pc, say from registry to ie temp files, win temp files to various apps' recent file lists. on the other hand, eraser is much more practical to erase individual files at an instance. salutes.
     
  13. arran

    arran Registered Member

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    well after doing a quick google search from what Ive found deleted ee files can be recovered.
    http://radsoft.net/rants/20031027,00.shtml


    also too what about if you encrypt the files before you delete them ?? that way if they can be recovered they would also have to break the password
     
  14. siberianwolf

    siberianwolf Registered Member

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    what about these:
    http://www.guard-privacy-and-online-security.com/encase-vs-evidence-eliminator.html

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1267253,00.asp

    for this reason (that data can't be recovered), in most countries including the us, canada, the uk, germany,etc, lawmakers prohibited the use of ee, and in most countries, courts and judges rule that it's not legal to use this kind of software. so, if it's detected on your pc, the judge rules that you used it on purpose to hide and purge harmful/illegal content. and that is to say, in more than 50% of the prosecutions, you're likely to be found guilty. it's considered an evil product.
    as for this, i think, it must be prohibited, if it's needed to fight against cyber-crime, illegal acts, pornography etc.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
  15. Warlockz

    Warlockz Registered Member

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    I second that! But I use East Tech Eraser + R-wipe and clean, not the free eraser!

    PROOF?

    I don't think he can, I think hes just talking about something he herd from some random person on the net, or the scare tactics EE advertises!

    NO EE is not that effective, the only thing it does that others don't do is, It moves your Current data around and wipes all the disk space that was underneath it (with the right settings) or they say?

    The reason people say EE messes up their system is, If EE detects itself as pirated, it will basically turn itself into a virus and erase files that are crucial for applications on your machine to run, so do not try to use a pirated version of this software!

    Yes the other software is as effective at erasing data if not more (with the right settings) Yes you must keep your system restore turned off, and use other common sense,

    you can save a downloaded file to an encrypted container, but that data was most likely saved as a temp file somewhere first, I guess it all depends on what Browser or download manager you used, mght want to look into it if your paranoid!

    start out with a clean HD and use common sense!

    What is your profession?

    Edited to add quote from arran post

    Thanks arran, I find this to be amusing, EE is trash just like their advertisements!

    Why would encrypting a file before you erased it give you extra security? the file you encrypted was never erased? so it still resides on your drive. just erase it using a 7 wipe pass, if your paranoid go for the gunman method!

    I use East-Tech Eraser and R-Wipe & Clean for everyday drive cleansing, & Acronis Drive Cleanser to erase the entire drive in boot mode, and no nothing can be recovered by anyone period!

    ......................................................
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
  16. siberianwolf

    siberianwolf Registered Member

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    because, it's not possible to quote and present as a reliable reference from my friends words, but possible and more reliable for you (those who want to see reliable proof) to see for yourself from trusted sources like well-known pcmag (and its editors), right?
    as for the question about my profession, i'm an officer (shamus) ;)
    and pay attention to this part of my previous post please:

     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
  17. Nebulus

    Nebulus Registered Member

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    I highly doubt that there is a specific law against a single software product in any of these countries.

    I totally disagree. Software that is used to protect privacy shouldn't be prohibited just because we fear potential illegal acts. There are other ways the police can catch criminals, that doesn't involve banning privacy software.
     
  18. Warlockz

    Warlockz Registered Member

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    Can you please refer me to the actual LAW in the US, that was supposedly made, that prohibits the use of EE in the US?

    I cant seem to find it anywhere!

    And no I do not see pcmag as a reliable source to any proof about any software, as I have seen many false reviews on their site about the reliability of many software products in the past !

    I still find it very hard to believe than an Officer of Law would be on a security forum vouching for a software that could hinder an investigation?
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
  19. LockBox

    LockBox Registered Member

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    There are no laws against using any privacy software in the United States. However, there have been many cases that have been prosecuted and a charge of destruction of evidence thrown in to whatever the original charge was simply because of EE. It's been said many times that a jury, a judge, a DA, they're just people and the simple fact that the name of the software is "Evidence Eliminator" prejudices these people. You can Google this and find cases where defense attorneys say it is STUPID to have software with that name on your computer. You wouldn't think a name, in and of itself, would doom somebody, but it does. The very name of the software is a crime. You can have something else on your computer that does the same thing and say you use it to protect your privacy and it's not near the issue it is as when the software is named "Evidence Eliminator."
     
  20. siberianwolf

    siberianwolf Registered Member

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    in the uk, in many fields of law, there aren't any codification/written law for the law enforcement. the law mainly consists of court orders, rulings by judges, which is -as a system- called common law. and for this specific subject, yes there's a regulation to prohibit the use of this type of software.
    and ther are rulings by courts that state that use of ee is not legal for it's obviously used to evade the legal prosecution, even for the privacy of an average citizen.
    and, about the prohibition, i second that, cuz, there are potential criminals out there in the real world who download illegal content, browse illegal websites such as criminal sites and download and browse pornographic content (and worst, images of minors). how do you expect the police and law enforcement to fight against those perverts?
    of course it must be prohibited to use such software, if it's used for those kind of sick purposes by sick and pervert ones.

    acts/codes/laws are supposed to be notional to cover general issues, regulates not a specific thing, but draws a general frame, if it were as you stated, there would have to be hundreds of thousands acts/laws, which is nonsense and against the spirit of law. law doesn't make regulations on individuals, but on notions. so if any individual commits an action which is defined as crime in penal code, then that individual becomes the subject of prosectuion.
    said regulations aren't specifically for ee, but for ee-like softwares which are used to avoid the legal acts. and mentioned countless times in the rulings. you can't expect me to give you links of court orders, hearing records, etc; right?
    try http://www.westlaw.com, etc. if you want rulings.


    hello, sarcasm, in case you couldn't figure that!!
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
  21. Warlockz

    Warlockz Registered Member

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    Um OK? I don't get it you either are or your not? where I live Impersonating an officer in any case is a federal crime!

    Ok, yes I have read a case where they were charging an individual, they had records of illegal downloads, (Not just the fact of Privacy software installed on their machine) so the defendant was charged even though they didn't have the illegal content in their possession, the prosecutors insisted that the defendant destroyed the evidence with their privacy software!

    But instead of being charged with the illegal content, they were just charged with a more lesser charge of destroying evidence!
    ......................................................................
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
  22. jrmhng

    jrmhng Registered Member

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    Have to distinguish between the law and fact. I highly doubt there is, in law (either legislation or common law precedent) is a rule that the use of EE or similar software is a factor in deciding the case. Rather it is in applying the law to the facts where EE might part of the circumstantial evidence that someone is hiding something.

    You are making the statement that the use of EE is somehow incriminating, so why dont you provide the case law that support your claims.

    Seems much more plausible.

    No you cant just quote your friends however if you are part of the profession that deals with these issues, I'm sure you are able to find reliable sources like research papers that deal with data destruction in general.

    Re pcmag, it is not that reliable.

    Back to your original topic, you could just use whole disk encryption, that way, you dont need to eliminate anything because everything is encrypted.
     
  23. arran

    arran Registered Member

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    While I agree that there may be laws particually in the UK which says you can't use EE. This does not mean to say that they can't recover EE deleted files. Its more of the fact that they prefer you not to so it would make their jobs easier in recovering data. Because maybe their forensic labs are too busy to do everything? Or because of the costs of taking the disk drive to another forensic company? Thats why they say no EE allowed.
     
  24. Meriadoc

    Meriadoc Registered Member

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    Ew not another EE discussion, we'll have AC RHS here next trying to hawk it.
     
  25. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

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    Let's answer the original question rather than rehash old discussions.
     
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