The market has rejected Linux desktops. Get over it.

Discussion in 'all things UNIX' started by Ocky, Nov 28, 2009.

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  1. Ocky

    Ocky Registered Member

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    The market has rejected Linux desktops. Get over it.


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  2. Eice

    Eice Registered Member

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    It might still be a bit too soon to say never. But the guy has a point. Pundits have been predicting the "Year of the Linux Desktop" for, well, years. And we're still nowhere closer to it than when all the hype first started.
     
  3. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    Provocative titles = clicks.
    Mrk
     
  4. Chuck57

    Chuck57 Registered Member

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    My first Linux was Caldera 2x back in the mid 1990's. I read the manual, played with it, read the manual again, played with it some more, and gave up.

    A year or so later, I tried Red Hat 6. That was an improvement, but I still couldn't get my printer or internet to work, or much else. I gave up.

    Last year, I began playing with Opensuse and Ubuntu. My printer, my Internet, even music worked. Plus, I not once had to face the dreaded command line.
    This is what's kept most people from moving to Linux.

    In the past, Linux was touted as the Windows killer. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people who use computers just want them to work. They don't want to be typing in cryptic commands or need to jump through a bunch of hoops to get their hardware set up. They want to download it, click yes or no and then go. Windows mostly does it all for them.

    Apple does it better, but you can buy 2 or 3 PC's for one Apple, which is keeping Apple in a niche market. If their prices came down to PC levels, I think Apple could overtake MS.

    Many people who wanted an alternative to Windows tried Linux in the past. They, like me were turned off by the difficulties. Unlike me, many never returned. Linux will remain an alternative, gathering a percent or two of the market, until it shows the world that it's *ahem* Windows easy to use.
     
  5. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    The first point is definatly wrong imo.
    installing software is easier on linux and devices work without having to install software.

    example 1.
    sony ericcson phone.
    plug it in to a windows computer and al it allows you to do is access the memory stick. if you want other features such as using your phone as a modem to connect to the internet you need to install software.

    plug it in to a linux computer and it will ask you if you want to use the phone as a modem to connect to the internet.

    example 2.
    internet dongles.

    plug it in to a windows machine and it will want to install annoying proprietary connection manager that doesnt always work.

    plug it in to a linux computer and network manager will ask you which provider and plan you have and your then instantly connected.

    I dont think ive every installed windows on a machine without any exclamation marks in device manager. always needs drivers.

    where as with linux the hardware support out of the box is amazing.

    I just wish more devolopers would support linux.

    linux even has prompts to install missing codecs these days.
     
  6. Windchild

    Windchild Registered Member

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    In spite of the rather provocative title of the article, I wouldn't completely disagree with it. As long as I've been using Linux, I've been hearing various people proclaim that the time of the Linux home desktop has come, or is coming next year, or the year after that at the latest. But, it never happened. Nothing much has really radically changed: most everyone is still running Windows at home, and great lots of servers run Linux or something else from the big happy Unix family.

    I wouldn't necessarily say that Linux desktops have been actively rejected, though - as in, "we tried this and didn't like it, so out it goes". Perhaps more accurate would be saying that Windows works well enough that most people won't leave it for some other OS. Kind of like: "I like my Toyota, I think I'll keep it. I'm not rejecting all other cars, I just like this one well enough for now." :D And then there's always that they really are different systems. Linux isn't Windows, and may feel "wrong" to folks who only have experience with Windows.

    But honestly, what do I care? I use what works for me, others use what works for them. For the stuff I do, I don't want one OS to rule them all. I run Windows, Linux, dabble in others - all seem to have their merits and issues. And it's not like Linux is the one product of an ambitious software company that is going to go bankrupt if it can't conquer home desktops from Windows. If Linux doesn't win the desktop market, or even grow much in market share, how much does that really matter? Those who participate in making the thing and use it, can continue to do so.
     
  7. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    ROFLMAO:D :D :D :D

    The only reasons that linux do not get a bigger share are:
    1. lack of drivers; important for everyone...
    2. lack of proffesional level apps; important for professionals/companies...
    3. lack of commercial games; important for gamers/kids...

    If the product companies decide to release linux drivers too, for their products the share will change drastically.
    Maybe in the not so far future we will see a "linux certified" logo on several products.:p

    Panagiotis
     
  8. chronomatic

    chronomatic Registered Member

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    And it will remain that way as long as M$ keeps it's almost illegal stranglehold on the PC hardware manufacturer and OEM market.

    And the author of the article said there is no innovation on the Linux desktop (yeah, pretty funny). He did mention that "Linux" invented the virtual desktop (which is huge for me and I can barely tolerate a desktop without it). I was amazed to see that Windows 7 still does not have virtual desktops. It's pretty amazing, really. And then you have compiz-fusion which was the first 3D desktop. Vista's Aero was a copy. And then you have KDE 4 with its innovations (some hate it, I happen to like it). Even if you don't like it, you can't say it's not original or unique.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2009
  9. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

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    A generalization to be sure.

    MS users have to be spoon fed.

    Linux users can think for themselves.
     
  10. iceni60

    iceni60 ( ^o^)

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    i really like linux as it is and hope the average computer user stays away from it. maybe i'm a snob, but i'd hate it if the market share went up!
     
  11. wat0114

    wat0114 Guest

    These cryptic commands in an often futile attempt to get things working are what infuriate me the most with Linux. Believe me whan I say I've tried really, really, bl00dy hard to adopt Linux as even an alternative to Windows, let alone a replacement, but it's always one and usually more than one issue that crops up that requires a marathon search through Google or even here for answers, some of which work while some don't, and the ones that do work are often a result of some unbelievable jumping through terminal command hoops to fix the problem. With Windows I can often figure out problems on my own because there is usuallyy something in the resolution process that makes at least some logical sense. The worst is with my 3 yr old pc with dual gpu's, nVidia 7900GTX - not even the latest drivers work with them in any Linux distro - Ubuntu, Mint, PCLinux, OPenSuse; every time I restart after installing them the installation breaks; there is no getting to the login. So if I want to run Linux, I have to run it in low video, or whatever it's called, mode. That's a joke! With Windows, no problems; they work as expected every time.

    But I'm a reasonable and fair individual and rather persistant, too, so I am always taking a look at Linux' development of new releases and willing to try them out - again - from time to time to see if they'll work for me without too much fuss, so it's not like I've given up on it completely; it's just that at this time I don't see it as a viable replacement or alternative to Windows to serve my needs.


    Well that's a generalization of a statement if ever I've seen one :rolleyes: I agree that the average Linux user is probably more technically savvy than the average Windows user, but not all Windows users need to be spoon fed. Some of us can even think for ourselves too ;)
     
  12. Eice

    Eice Registered Member

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    Illegal stranglehold? It's funny how they're allowed to continue doing it in broad daylight then, don't you think? I mean, don't we have something called "laws" and "enforcement"?

    Funny you should mention that. Compiz is frustratingly slow for me. Things like Firefox, Flash etc respond choppily, and playing videos utilizes 100% of one of the cores of my dual-core CPU. No such problems with Aero.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2009
  13. chronomatic

    chronomatic Registered Member

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    How are you installing these drivers? At least on Debian/Ubuntu/Mint it should be as easy as:

    Code:
    sudo apt-get install nvidia-drivers
    If this is not how you're doing it, then you are doing it wrong.
     
  14. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    I don't think anyother industry would tolerate the dominance Microsoft has in the computer market.

    amagine 90percent of cars having the same cd player. sure you can buy another stero to replace it but you still have to pay for the player that comes with the car.

    I find it ridiculous how much it took some people to get a refund on a microsoft OS when you brought a computer. all computers should have the option to ship without an OS. somepeople want to use an alternate os..
     
  15. NAMOR

    NAMOR Registered Member

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    Fixed. :D
     
  16. wat0114

    wat0114 Guest

    Code:
    sudo apt-get install nvidia-drivers
    First, I thank you for your help. Second, if that is really the only way to install video drivers in Linux, then this undeniably proves that Linux is only for the highly technically inclined folks. No way should installation via the terminal be the only way to install drivers. This is analogous to using the cmd line in Windows as the only way to install drivers, which is not the case.

    Now to answer your question, yes, that is one of the ways I tried but was faced with a broken install after re-boot. The other, most definitely easier way that really should work - as it always did on my older computer no less, that I tried numerous times was via the display properties, enable 3D radio button where Linux does a nice job of alerting me that my present (default drivers with install) won't support the feature, and it finds the correct proprietary and latest nVidia drivers from the repository, affording me the opportunity to install them. I do and everything seems to go well right up to the alert to re-boot the pc to finalize the install, but upon re-boot i'm faced with some error message, forget what it is, and I get some terminal window instead from which I can't get to the GUI to log in. I've even tried tried one version earlier with the same results ensuing. This all happens whether it's a Virtualbox install or directly to a freshly formatted partion using either the efs3 or efs4 file system.

    Who knows what's happening; I just think Linux hates these gpu's I've got. They are inter-connected with a small ribbon cable and I use sli in Windows to run them no problems at all. Changing them out is not an option either because for that year, 2006, they were high-end cards and also the entire system is internally liquid cooled, including the gpu's and chipset, so not an easy task to tackle. One day, maybe, nVidia will produce Linux drivers that work for them. I'll keep my eyes peeled.
     
  17. Ocky

    Ocky Registered Member

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    Hi wat0114,

    The only time I had some trouble was with Ubuntu 8.04. Someone here advised me to install Envy and all was fine. Maybe no harm in giving it one last try ?
    http://albertomilone.com/envyngfaq.html#A
     
  18. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    If for example the transmission of a car was patented by Cadillac and the steering mechanism of a car was patented by Buick, then the vehicle market might have looked totally different these days. I don't see how the software patent laws are stimulating innovation and free market.
    Would it make sense if Cadillac only runs on Cadillac fuel from a Cadillac gas station and Buick only on Buick fuel?

    Firefox is an example of software that does stimulate innovation, it even triggered the development and release of IE7+. Firefox also is an example of software that is expandable to the users needs. It runs practically similar on different platforms and add-ons work on each of these platforms. Openoffice.org ditto.

    The USA is a big advocate of the free market economic model, yet they resist a truly free software market.
     
  19. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    Graphic drivers in Linux? No need for command line.
    See my Ubuntu or Mandriva reviews for example.
    Mrk
     
  20. wat0114

    wat0114 Guest

    Thank you Ocky! I'll keep this in mind for next time.

    Your tutorials are all excellent Mrk :) and based on what I saw in your Ubuntu review, that is how I installed the drivers for my cards. I feel certain it's something to do with the cards themselves or the way they're physically interconnected that the Linux drivers don't like.
     
  21. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    OK :I cant be bothered dissecting that pontificating blog post from an individual I've never heard of using a poorly formed synthesis of rationalism and empiricism to give some form of credibility toward making a deduction of some profound elliptical true/false conclusion while including a manipulative appeal to substantiate a presumptively unarguable position: I think.
    Ooo, I just did. LoL.

    The media is not always the message. :rolleyes:
    Just another blogger with pretensions: opinion is not equal to critical analysis.
    Ocky's first 'comment' had it all : " :D ".

    What would our erstwhile dissertationist make of these( they're all out there LOL):
    Write 300 words on:
    :D
    :D :D
    If you really want to know how to have an argument:
    http://www.mindspring.com/~mfpatton/sketch.htm

    The fact is:Linux will rule the desktop when adolescents realise they can hit the pRon and still be safe on line. :blink:

    laissez les bon temps rouleur.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009
  22. NGRhodes

    NGRhodes Registered Member

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    IMHO Linux has barely entered the Desktop market, there has been no major push to promote Linux, a lot of the "Market" has never even heard of Linux in the first place to be able to reject it.

    I honestly think that Desktop popularity will continue its very slow uptake unless someone will start a massive PR campain (which requires a lot of money from somewhere) and I can't see even Mark Shuttleworth doing that.

    I personally think that the Desktop/operating systems are close enough and can easily compete with Windows, but the applications (as a whole) that run on them are not there yet. To be honest, I do not think on the whole there is not as much quality desktop software for Linux as there is Windows for the average desktop user (non techy office worker or home user).
    Its getting better, but I think it will take a long time.

    Cheers, Nick.
     
  23. BlueZannetti

    BlueZannetti Administrator

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    A large number of off-topic posts pruned.

    Stay on topic - which is commentary regarding a hyped story out there which seems to involve a fundamental redefinition of the word "rejected". Not embraced might be better terminology, except, at that point, who cares what's not embraced.

    Second, the next time anyone feels compelled to play the FUD card - don't. It doesn't add to the discussion and invariably detracts from it.

    Regards,

    Blue
     
  24. chronomatic

    chronomatic Registered Member

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    Outside of AutoCAD and some games, can you give examples of what software is missing from Linux?
     
  25. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    I may not be the quite typical Email only user, but since you asked what's missing.

    Microsoft Office 2007 (I've tried the alternatives and they don't do the job for me.

    Nuance Paperport Pro 12
    Nuance PDF Converter
    Ninja Trader. Futures trading Platform
    Esignal Another futures trading program.
    StorageCraft Shadowprotect Desktop.

    I don't know about crucial utilities so I won't list them.
     
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