That's enough.

Discussion in 'other security issues & news' started by progress, Jun 23, 2009.

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  1. progress

    progress Guest

  2. funkydude

    funkydude Registered Member

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    That guy is a moron and should be shot. Go go Opera!
     
  3. twl845

    twl845 Registered Member

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    I think the problem is that Microsoft includes IE in every computer sold and we are stuck with it even though we are using FF or Opera etc. No wonder they claim to be number one browser. I like the idea of being given a choice. I can't wait for the new Opera version.
     
  4. Windchild

    Windchild Registered Member

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    A boycott would be rather ridiculous, in my opinion. But he does have a point. It is GOOD for the USER that the operating system comes with a browser. Nobody (except computer hobbyists and such, which most users are not) effing wants to have to go find a browser to install the first thing you get your new system set up. People want a browser already there. And if they want a different browser, then they can download it using the browser that came with the system. These antitrust lawsuits are a bunch of crap in my opinion.

    And I use, and like, Opera. And have done so since, oh, I don't even remember. 1998 maybe?
     
  5. m00nbl00d

    m00nbl00d Registered Member

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    To be honest, I share that opinion. Those are fair points. This lawsuit against Microsoft for including IE as the only and default browser in their very own O.S is stupid. This is nonsense.

    I bet that if Opera would build their own O.S, they wouldn't be shipping any other browser, now would they?

    The very same way, Apple, only ships Safari with their O.S.

    This all damn thing is going beyond what it should have gone. Opera wanted E.C to do something about, based on unfair competetion, and they did it. Microsoft decided to ship any Windows 7 version, in Europe, without IE.

    Why aren't Opera guys happy about it? Maybe, because they know people won't still use their browser? Because they're used to IE, Firefox, and now found of Chrome, because Google advertises it in their own search engine... Oh wait... Should Google be forced to advertise every other browser as well? Or... let's see... Advertise Yahoo's browser, if they ever decide to have one?

    Honestly, there are more important issues. Opera's people are sounding like big crying babies.

    I'm a Opera user, and all this is ridiculous. Maybe they should start paying for advertisement. No one goes anywhere without some sort of advertisement. Heck, pay the local computer shops to talk about Opera to their clients. Do something... Enough with this nonsense.
     
  6. Eice

    Eice Registered Member

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    I don't really understand you. Care to explain?
     
  7. twl845

    twl845 Registered Member

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    I don't know, I read my post again and it says it plain enough. :D
     
  8. Eice

    Eice Registered Member

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    Not really. What are we stuck with, and who claims to be the number one browser?
     
  9. twl845

    twl845 Registered Member

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    IE browser
     
  10. LoneWolf

    LoneWolf Registered Member

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    Now, now. Must we be so drastic.
    How about just a good slap upside the head. :D

    I've been using Opera for some time and will continue to use it.
     
  11. Eice

    Eice Registered Member

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    Well, you're stuck with Notepad, Paint, Windows Firewall etc. as well. Ever considered switching to Linux? Arch is probably the distro you want.

    And IE never claimed itself as the number one in usage. AFAIK Microsoft doesn't carry out browser usage stat surveys, other companies do that job.
     
  12. noone_particular

    noone_particular Registered Member

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    Microsofts response to the anti-trust suit, an OS with no browser. An OS that doesn't come with a browser is useless to the average user. How else can they download another browser? M$ is the one who should be boycotted for that kind of smart@ss response, not Opera. No, I'm not an Opera user or fanboy.

    The whole problem could be solved if MS would make Internet Explorer completely uninstallable by the user. The fact that they're releasing a version of Windows without IE proves that they could. It's their refusal to do so that's the problem.
     
  13. Eice

    Eice Registered Member

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    I don't see how is that a problem or how will that change anything in the context of this issue. AFAIK IE's presence has never impacted the user's ability to install and use any other browser on Windows.
     
  14. noone_particular

    noone_particular Registered Member

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    Try reading the original statement made by the EU.
    It might not affect the users ability to install another browser, but it doesn't allow the user to remove a browser they may not want, a browser that's long been the source of most of the vulnerabilities in Windows. Other browsers don't get the amount of system access that IE does which makes it difficult to compete fairly with IE. At the same time, MS has no problem with modifying someone elses browser with their code. Is this what you call a level playing field?
     
  15. Eice

    Eice Registered Member

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    It's an opinion. An opinion that so far isn't backed up by any valid reasoning, as far as I can see.

    In other words, it's not anti-competitive, it's just that you're unhappy about the lack of an uninstall option.

    Well, good thing the king of leaky browsers - Firefox - can be uninstalled then, I guess...

    That's interesting. What system access?

    Wow, a silent install without even a squeak from the browser? Looks like some browsers have their own work cut for them, which they should take care of before whining about ActiveX (which Microsoft has greatly-improved controls for now).
     
  16. the Tester

    the Tester Registered Member

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    Maybe the idiot likes not having a choice.
    Microsoft should have made IE easier to uninstall from the beginning.
    Either that or give the end user a choice on the browsers that are pre-installed.
     
  17. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    That's a great publicity stunt. Watch the traffic soar as angry people take the bait.
    Mrk
     
  18. dw426

    dw426 Registered Member

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    It's a load of crap is what it is. I'm sorry guys, but this whole anti-competitive argument is one big pile of smelly BS. Microsoft is not stopping and cannot stop you from getting on the internet and downloading and using another browser. IE comes bundled with Windows....so what? Newsflash, you NEED IE anyway to download Microsofts damned never-ending patches. So whether you like it or not, IE will be used by you if you use Windows.

    As far as that webpage? Boo friggin hoo, Opera is taking advantage of the EU situation and the author of the article doesn't like it none, they feel "it's soo unfair!"....shut up, it's business. If Opera wants to join in the fray, let them, it's not like their crying and groaning is going to suddenly shoot their browser to the top of the marketshare charts.

    Opera's problem isn't anti-competitiveness, it's marketing. As in, you know, magazine articles, ads from them of their product, recommendations from people other than ones buried deep in security forums, all that neato stuff that makes people go "Hey, never tried these guys before, I think I will!". You know, the kind of support that, oh, I dunno, maybe FIREFOX has?

    Opera seems to think people will just "happen upon them" and the sun will shine from behind the clouds, the birds will sing, and people will take to the streets in little dance numbers proclaiming their love for "The Big Red O"....um, no, won't happen.
     
  19. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    My view: IE has been a part of Windows versions for a long time.

    The new Microsoft proposal: let the user make a choice.

    There is something to be said for shipping Windows 7 with an IE version.
    Convenience, if nothing else. Given the EU's antitrust issues it seems that Microsoft doesn't consider that an option.

    But why should Microsoft include browsers of third parties ?
    And which ones should be included: Lynx, k-meleon, Arachne, Amaya, Flock 2 ? :eek:

    Is it really fair or right to hold Microsoft responsible for third party browsers by forcing MS to install/deliver those ? What if one of them went rogue ? (not saying that all are completely clean at the moment ;) )
    What about legal liability issues ? Who would decide which browsers should and should not be included ?

    I understand many folks here want Firefox and Opera to be preinstalled, but that isn't really the point, is it ?

    If it were up to me: ship Windows 7 with IE included, let the user choose the browser, with the option to uninstall IE (at least to the extent that it won't be a vulnerability).

    Microsoft has abused its power in the past to get to its current size, but I do not believe that the EU should make it a revenge/authority issue.
     
  20. Pedro

    Pedro Registered Member

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    Speaking for myself, i never wanted them not to bundle IE. It's like you say, the ability to remove it would be nice, programs not using IE specifically instead of the (whatever) default browser chosen by the user, etc.

    But frankly, who cares about this. What i want is, for starters, IE to support (communication) standards, Office to use ODF by default or at least fully support it, no fake bs or ooxml bs- you know, so i can friggin read the documents you send to me without wondering what's broken.
    No ifs or buts, I want it for yesterday.
     
  21. Bob D

    Bob D Registered Member

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    I was wondering the same thing...
     
  22. Windchild

    Windchild Registered Member

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    FTP.EXE, of course! :D But then again, Microsoft shouldn't force other FTP client vendors out of business by including their own in Windows. Down with FTP.exe! Remove it from the operating system! Boo Microsoft! [/SARCASM]
     
  23. Searching_ _ _

    Searching_ _ _ Registered Member

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    Opera is cool!

    I prefer Firefox. Lots fo gadgets to add.

    I.E. should take part in the ~Snip~ Bowl 2010.

    Is there an I.E. for Linux? It should be in the Ubuntu repository.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2009
  24. bigc73542

    bigc73542 Retired Moderator

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    The way I see it it is not that MS includes IE in their os's. It is that they make it the default and non removable for those that don't like or use it. If they made it removable I don't see where the problem would be.

    bigc
     
  25. dw426

    dw426 Registered Member

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    I can see your point there easily, but, in all honesty, is it so hard when you downlaod another browser to answer "yes" to said browsers pop-up asking if you want it to be the default, thereby getting rid of the IE is default issue? Also, are even older hard drives so small that letting an unused browser sit there hurts anything. Granted all that comes down to user choice, and should, but I don't see anything that requires making a fuss over.

    As much as I don't care for some of Microsofts' practices, I really think at this point they are being treated unfairly as far as all this EU stuff.
     
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