System and Personal Partition

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by ErikAlbert, May 5, 2006.

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  1. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    I separated my system from my personal files in two partitions
    1. [C:] = system partition = winXPproSP2 + all applications.
    2. [D:] = data partition = personal files
    But that doesn't mean that everything is solved, because the folder "C:\Documents and Settings" is still on [C:], where most personal files are stored (and alot more than that too) and my personal files need to be stored on my data partition [D:]

    I like to try this first in a NORMAL way.
    So I didn't MOVE any folders from [C:] to [D:] with TweakUI, not even the folder "My Documents".
    I just created my personal folders on [D:] and that's it and used nothing but software settings to direct my personal files in a specific folder. The folder names aren't important, they are free to choose.

    Of course, I solved my problems first in the softwares, I use very often.
    My assumption is that most RECENT softwares have settings to move my personal files to a specific default folder.

    MS Word
    1. Create the folder "My Word" on the data partition [D:]
    2. Open "MS Word"
    3. Click on Tool/Options/File Locations
    4. Click on Documents and button "Modify"
    5. Change the folder into "D:\My Word"

    This is nothing special. Any Word-user creates his own folder and even subfolders to store his Word-documents.

    MS Excel
    1. Create the folder "My Excel" on the data partition [D:]
    2. Open "MS Excel"
    3. Click on Tool/Options/General
    4. Change "Default file location:" into "D:\My Excel"

    This is nothing special. Any Excel-user creates his own folder and even subfolders to store his Excel-spreadsheets.

    Notepad
    1. Create the folder "My Notepad" on the data partition [D:]
    2. Notepad has no specific setting for a default folder and does remember the last folder, you used for reading or storing Notepad-files, even after closing Notepad and that is sufficient.

    This is nothing special. Any Notepad-user creates his own folder and even subfolders to store his Notepad-files.

    Acrobat Reader
    1. Create the folder "My Adobe" on the data partition [D:]
    2. Acrobat Reader has no specific setting for a default folder and does NOT remember the last folder,
    you used for reading or saving .pdf-files AFTER closing Acrobat Reader.
    It only remembers your folder between Opening and Closing Acrobat Reader.
    I'm planning to contact Adobe about this, because that is not normal.

    This is nothing special. Any AcrobatReader-user creates his own folder and even subfolders to store his .pdf-files.
    The only trouble with Adobe is that you have to go to your folder, because it doesn't remember it. Even when you have only one partition, you have the same problem with Acrobat Reader.


    Mozilla Thunderbird
    1. Create Folder "My Thunderbird" in the Data Partition [D:]

    2. Open "Windows Explorer"
    a. Click on My Computer/System Partition [C:]/Documents and Settings/Erik/Application Data/Thunderbird/
    b. Right click on "Profiles"
    c. Click on "Cut"
    d. Click on Data Partition [D:]/My Thunderbird
    e. Right Click
    f. Click on "Paste"
    g. Close "Windows Explorer"

    The folder "Profiles" is now moved to the "Datal Partition [D:]" under "My Thunderbird"

    3. Open "Windows Explorer"
    a. Click on My Computer/System Partition [C:]/Documents and Settings/Erik/Application Data/Thunderbird/
    b. Right Click on the file "profiles.ini" and open it with "Notepad"
    Change line "IsRelative=1" into "IsRelative=0"
    Change line "Path=Profiles/xxxxxxxx.default" into "Path=D:\My Thunderbird\Profiles\xxxxxxxx.default"
    c. Click on "File" and "Save"
    d. Close Notepad
    e. Close "Windows Explorer"

    Mozilla Firefox
    Firefox can be separated in a similar way.


    That's it for now, I will try to destroy my own separation method in the next days, but if it works, I will be very happy.
    This is important for my backup method and later for softwares like FDISR.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2006
  2. tlu

    tlu Guest

    http://www.mozilla.org/support/thunderbird/profile
     
  3. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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  4. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    tlu,

    Your link was very helpfull.
    I think I did right this time, because EVERYTHING is moved to my Data Partition [D:], including both address books : abook.mab and history.mab.
    Even my profile doesn't exist any more on my System Partition [C:].
    And most important of all : my Thunderbird WORKS.

    Quite an exciting job. :D
    Thanks man !!!

    P.S. : I replaced the old method with the new method in my previous post.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2006
  5. tlu

    tlu Guest

    Erik, I'm glad that this worked for you. BTW, the same procedure can also be applied to Firefox - see http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/profile
     
  6. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Yes, I didn't even have to read your link. I did it right after Thunderbird without even knowing of your last post. It's quite an easy operation, once you have done it.

    I think it will also work, when I upgrade OR uninstall/re-install Firefox and Thunderbird, because both softwares don't touch what is stored in the folder "Application Data".
    That is also the reason why users don't lose their settings, extensions, address books and emails after upgrading Thunderbird/Firefox.
    The file "profiles.ini", which contains the new path to the data partition [D:] remains on the system partition [C:] under the folder "Application Data" and that's why I'm quite sure it will work.
    But I will be more sure after executing such events.

    I also noticed that even "Total Uninstall" (TU) doesn't remove what is stored under "Application Data", but I know already the reason why TU doesn't remove it. The folder "Profiles" does NOT exist after the installation and therefore not monitored by TU. The folder "Profiles" is created, when you open Thunderbird/Firefox and configure it.

    The folder "C:\Documents and Settings" and "My Documents" is quite EMPTY, since I'm doing this separation and that was my final intention, because I wanted all my personal data on the data partition [D:], including my email-folders and both address-books of Thunderbird, which are files NOT created by me.

    It has also other advantages for my system partition [C:] :
    1. it will always have the same size, unless I add new legitimate softwares, I really need for job and hobbies.
    2. it has always the same backup time, because the size hardly changes
    3. it won't need much defragmentation, because there are no changes caused by personal data.
    4. it will be a good base for using softwares like FDISR, RollbackRx, DeepFreeze, ShadowUser, ...
    5. Acronis True Image allows me to create and restore any situation on system partition [C:], without losing any personal data.
    6. ... who knows what more.

    This is all new to me. I've never done this before and I have to get used to new softwares and their new possibilities, but I know for sure I'm on the right track. After all I'm dreaming about this for almost 2 years, I just didn't have the right hardware to make this possible. :)
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2006
  7. tlu

    tlu Guest

    Erik, I can confirm it will. I've been doing it this way for years.

    That's great - but is this true for all your accounts? If I look into my "Documents and Settings" folder I see subfolder not only for my user account, but also for the Admin account, All Users, Default User, Local Service and NetworkService. Many applications store data or log files in one of these folders.

    That makes it an even harder task to achive wahta you want. I wonder if my proposal regarding a symbolic link isn't the easier solution after all.
     
  8. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Concerning the accounts, you are most probably very right about this.

    Of course there is only account, called "Erik", that is important for me and I'm the only one that works on this home computer. So I don't think that the other accounts will be a problem.

    BUT I'm not blind for other methods. After all this is more exciting, than running a scanner LOL.
    Because my actual separation method is so simple and easy to execute, it bores me already.
    So I will re-read and study your post about symbolic links. I only need more TIME for this.
    Acronis True Image allows me to do any experiment, if it goes wrong I simply restore my system partition with a not damaged backup file. :)
     
  9. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Might be depending on the program you install. Some will use Erik, some will use All users. Just be alert.
     
  10. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    I kniow about that, but a program is a program, not personal data. I don't create files on other accounts, than Erik.

    BTW I did another test with ATI.
    I zero-ed my harddisk #1, containing two partitions this time : system [C:] + data [D:] and restored both partitions from harddisk #2, using the Acronis Rescue CD without any problems.
     
  11. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Well, that method was a flop, most probably due to me. :D

    After I cut/pasted the folder "Documents and Settings" from [C:] to [D:], using the BartPE CD and after reboot I had two folders.
    1. C:\Documents and Settings
    2. D:\Documents and Settings
    I typed the command "linkd C:\Documents and Settings D:\Documents and Settings"

    If I created a subfolder "My Word" under "C:\Documents and Settings",
    I thought it would create the folder "My Word" under "D:\Documents and Settings", but it didn't.
    Frankly, I didn't know, what I was doing. This is indeed for an experienced user, not for dummies like me.
    I guess, I did something wrong, I'm not familiar with BartPE CD and the commands of "Windows Server 2003 Resource Kit Tools".
    I read you never did it yourself. If you can give me a detailed description in step mode, I can try it again.

    And all the time my partition letters were wrong, in the BartPE CD and in the Acronis Rescue CD. Good grief.
     
  12. tlu

    tlu Guest

    Erik, sorry that it didn't work for you. Perhaps I should have been more specific.

    Well, you shouldn't have had two "documents and settings" folders. You obviously copied that folder to d:\ but you should have moved it there, instead. The syntax for linkd is:

    linkd source destination

    whereby source is actually only a link. Any application accessing "source" is in reality accessing "destination". When creating this link it's important that that source folder must not exist. If it does you'll get an error message by linkd: "Cannot create a link at: ... " since an existing folder cannot be a link at the same time. In other words: You should only have a folder "d:\Documents and Settings". After the above command there should be a link "c:\Documents and Settings".

    As I had said I didn't try that myself (I created links for other files and folders before without the need to boot with BartPE) so I'm not sure if the different partition letters are a problem when using linkd. In any case I would create a symbolic link using the letters as shown by BartPE. Say, if your system partition is f:\ and your d:\partition is g:\ under BartPE, use linkd "f:\Documnets and Settings" g:\"Documents and Settings". After rebooting Windows the letters should be the correct ones again (like for any other "normal" links, too). If not (and if you're running into troubles because there is no link c:\Documnets and settings) I would try booting into safe mode and then creating that link. I hope that will work for you.

    BTW: Erik, I absolutely don't think you're a dummy;)
     
  13. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    HI Erik

    Partitioning issues aside when I use either Ghost 2003, Image for Disk, or Acronis Rescue Disks the drive letters are always somewhat scrambled. What I go by is disk description. That way I've never had any trouble. I don't know if it's just me, but I see it on two different systems.

    Pete
     
  14. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Yes, I'm already getting used to wrong drive letters, but I don't really like it.
    I gave good partition names from the beginning, so it was never a problem of recognizing my partitions, but it was certainly confusing when I did it the very first time and I think it's confusing for each beginner, if he reads his screens.
    Can you imagine, how big my confusion would have been, if my four partitions C,D,E,F had all the
    same default name "Local Disk"? I better don't think about that. LOOOOOOOOL
     
  15. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Don't you worry about me, I have 4 different system backups to get back in business in no time.
    You were a big help, when I created my first separation method and it still WORKS.

    Of course everything was NEW to me. Never used the BartPE CD and never used the linkd-command.
    I will tell you where it went wrong.

    When I was in BartPE, I really CUT/PASTED the folder "Documents and Settings" from [C:] to [D:].
    The trouble began, when I needed the linkd-command and that doesn't exist in BartPE IMHO.
    So I had to quit BartPE and rebooted my computer back in the real Windows and that was probably wrong.
    The folder "Documents and Settings" was of course still in partition [C:] and when I went to partition [D:], there was also the folder "Documents and Settings", which proves that the MOVE with BartPE has been successfull.
    So I tried the linkd-command in the real Windows and that was probably also wrong.
    The BartPE CD was TOO new me and I don't know if it has the linkd-command, probably not.
     
  16. tlu

    tlu Guest

    Indeed - it's no problem to start linkd on your HD when you are still in BartPE! But I know: If you're using it the first time it's very unfamiliar. I'm sure the next time you will succeed! :)
     
  17. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    For the moment, the separation method, described in my post #26, is working fine and I like to work with it for awhile to check if it keeps on working fine during other events.
    This method doesn't fool around with Windows folders and keeps Windows STABLE. I only moved one Thunderbird folder and one Firefox Folder and these are NOT Windows folders.

    The only thing I still like to do is moving the Windows folder "My Documents" to partition [D:] like many users did.
    The main reason for this is that "My Documents" contains two special folders "My Music" and "My Pictures". I don't work with these folders but other people do (I'm not doing this for myself only).
    I could create both folders myself in partition [D:], but I don't think, they would work the same way as under "My Documents".
    As you probably noticed both folders have a special icon and that's what bothering me.

    And I still have other things to do, like encryption, snapshots and virtual protection. After all I have to work with my computer too and find a way to protect it without having 30+ security softwares installed. That's the main reason, why I'm doing all this and this separation fits in my plans.

    Nevertheless, I keep all the other separation methods in mind, I have to be in the right mood to fool around with these Windows folders and Acronis True Image allows to me to create any version of my system and data partition. So it's not a problem to test this, it's a matter of priorities.
    It goes too fast for me and I don't like to handle several problems at the same time. If one step doesn't work, I don't continue until that step works.
    Thanks for all your help and one day we talk again about the rest. :)
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2006
  18. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

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    The info for those special icons is contained in a hidden folder named "desktop.ini" in the root of the folder. Here is an excerpt from my My Pictures folder's desktop.ini which points to the special icon:
    Code:
    [.ShellClassInfo]
    InfoTip=@Shell32.dll,-12688
    IconFile=%SystemRoot%\System32\mydocs.dll
    IconIndex=-101
    So, I wouldn't worry excessively about that aspect.

    However, there are registry entries which point to those special folders.

    You probably know that moving My Docs is as simple as right clicking and changing the target on the Target tab of Properties. So, movability of this folder should be no problem as it is designed into Windows. The other special folders underneath My Docs will move as part of the structure under My Docs with no problem and remain fully functional insofar as Windows uses them.

    However, moving My Pics and My Music out from underneath My Docs CAN be done but I'm fairly certain you'll have to edit the registry keys pointing to those folders so that Windows knows where they are. These keys are at
    Code:
    [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Shell Folders]
    and
    [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\User Shell Folders]
     
  19. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    crofttk,
    Thanks and I know that moving "My Documents" requires some registry changes, but there are two softwares "MS TweakUI" and "Folder Mover", that allow you to move "My Documents" to another partition and they take care of the registry changes as well.
    I didn't try these softwares yet, because they didn't move my Thunderbird/Firefox folders, but that problem is solved now.
    So I will try both softwares again to move "My Documents" in an easy way.
    I don't like to change the registries, not because I can't do this, but this is not an userfriendly method.
     
  20. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

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    Oh, duh, I forgot about TweakUI.

    OK, well moving the entire "My Documents" requires no registry or exotic stuff. Like I say, it's location is just a simple user option in it's folder properties, i.e., it's an "official" and Bill Gates blessed way to move My Docs. No special programs or hacks needed for that.
     
  21. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    But don't you agree with me about this :
    I can create the folders "My Music" and "My Pictures" in partition [D:] myself, but this wouldn't be the same as using the real folders "My Music" and "My Pictures" under the real folder "My Documents", because they have each a special icon, that doesn't look like a normal folder icon.
    These real folders have IMO special properties that other folders don't have.
    That's the only reason why I want to move "My Documents".
     
  22. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

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    Whether I agree depends on what you mean by "create the folders." If you mean simply creating a new folder and name them that way, I agree.

    The "special icon" is only trivial in what makes them unique -- all files and folders have some means of pointing to an icon to represent them in Windows. What's so special about them containing that pointer information in an ini file in their root ?

    Their registry keys telling Windows where they are and the fact that they are recognized by users and software makers as standard locations for music and pictures is what makes them special -- because no one has to worry about the actual physical location of those folders (except perhaps you, the administrator), they are folders that Windows has explicit pointers for, you just give the standard folder name and Windows takes care of the rest.

    I just don't consider a pointer to an icon and a couple of entries in the registry all that special that it requires special caution and deliberation. Of course, you have every right to consider them to be something to be cautious and deliberate about - that value judgment thingy again.;)
    IMO, only the two I mentioned above, nothing else. There's no other difference between them and any other folder.
    If you simply move the entire My Docs folder in the manner I described, the special properties, such as they are, of every folder underneath the My Docs folder, INCLUDING all properties of My Pictures and My Music, will go along with the My Docs folder. All Windows NEEDS to know and WILL know is that everything, including all special folders, from My Docs on downward is now in another location. You can even drag and drop your My Docs folder wherever you want and its totally seamless, permitted, and causes NO loss of functionality of any special folders.
    You lost me with that one, unless you meant "..only reason I DON'T want...". If you meant you DON'T want, then I just can't agree with your line of reasoning because that's just excessive caution compared to the benefits you could reap, IMO. The ability to relocate the My Docs folder and ALL of its contents is a standard feature of Windows XP.

    To Reiterate: You ONLY up the risk factor and turn things into a hack when you move My Music and My Pictures OUT from underneath My Documents (no matter WHERE My Docs is located) and have to edit the registry to maintain functionality.

    Whether or not that makes sense, I hope it was at least clear !
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2006
  23. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    crofttk,
    Yes, you are right about the folders "My Music" and "My Pictures". My mistake and it won't be the last one. :)

    I don't even need TweakUI to move the folder "My Documents".
    If you right click on "My Documents", you will see the "Target"-tab that allows you to change the "Target Folder Location", including the partition letter. (I didn't try it yet).

    However, if you right click on "My Documents" in this path :
    "C:\Documents and Settings\Erik\My Documents"
    you won't see the "Target"-tab. Weird.
     
  24. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

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    There's that echo again.:D
    Potverdikke toch ! You're right ! I saw that once long ago but had forgotten it, hence didn't mention it. Weird is right. I guess you have to access it a "special" way to get to it's "special" properties. LOL
     
  25. SpikeyB

    SpikeyB Registered Member

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    Last edited: May 19, 2006
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