Symantec Possible Trojan?

Discussion in 'ten-forward' started by brotherfreakshow, Jan 7, 2003.

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  1. brotherfreakshow

    brotherfreakshow Registered Member

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    Hello,
    Phil notes in a reply to my post that he considers
    Norton(Symantec spec.) a Trojan.

    I often here comments like this on security websites
    I understand the intended irony, but where is the
    venom coming from?
    Is there any merrit to these staments?

    I am not making lite of anyones opinions,just
    currious and interested.

    I wonder if its the Bill Gate (insert any big companys
    name) hate syndrome. or do they insert spyware
    or something in their products.

    Please explain...........


    "Lifes to short" :D
     
  2. Jason_DiamondCS

    Jason_DiamondCS Former DCS Moderator

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    I would think the main reason is its designed for extreme ease of use due to the customers they target with it. I could be wrong, but the "hardcore/dedicated/people who know things about computers" crowd tend to not mind a bit of increased complexity if it adds a lot of flexibility.
    -Jason-
     
  3. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    Greetings brotherfreakshow,

    I saw that thread and I thought Phil was joking, based upon the smilies he inserted and all. If it is at all serious, I'm sure he'll explain further in a reply here.

    As this is not a "Port Explorer" related topic, I'll need to move this thread to another forum. I'll move it to "Ten Forward" at the moment as I don't think we're going to find a true Trojan in Norton. ;)

    Best Wishes,
    LowWaterMark
     
  4. Phil

    Phil Registered Member

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    Certainly my comment was in jest as indicated by the icons. Now that the thread has been moved here, I will expand just a bit on my sarcasm continuing in the same vein, but with truth in point. I will limit my comments to my experience with NAV only because that was the product mentioned. Before I start, I *do* use NAV on two other machines here and have NO problems.

    Now, as to this XP Pro box. :D

    One of the goals of the current crop of viruses/trojans is to kill your anti-virus app. NAV2002 did just that to ITSELF with a def update. Some viruses have as a goal stopping the normal operation of the infected machine. The mentioned def update did just that. I had to go into safe mode to recover -- the ONLY time this box has *ever* been in safe mode in over a year of operation. Another goal of the nasties is to be difficult to remove. It took me almost a week to completly rid my system, and my registry in particualr, of all the crap NAV left behind. The authors of the nasty code certainly will provide NO help in restoring your system to normal. Yep, you guessed it -- precisely the kind of help I got from Symantec support.

    So, yes -- my comment WAS in jest but has basis in fact. This machine, now and forever, operates in a Symantec-free zone. ;)

    Phil
     
  5. brotherfreakshow

    brotherfreakshow Registered Member

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    I noted the humor(sarcasm..lol) in your thread Phil
    and I did not mean to imply otherwise.
    I was currious to see if there was spyware(how ironic
    that would be) in Symantec products.

    I thought you were very helpful in your replys,and
    I thank you.

    I did notice some sarcasm in Jasons reply(without
    humor)....lol

    I don't know if you met to be condescending,but you
    kinda came off that way.(Jason)

    I have no particular loyalty to any companys or
    products. If a product or service works I use it.
    I use norton antivirus because it came free with my
    computer.

    It had nothing to do with a lack of knowledge.
    I am a working man trying to go to school,with 3
    young children. FREE IS FREE brother.
     
  6. brotherfreakshow

    brotherfreakshow Registered Member

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    I would like to say I think your products are beautiful pieces of software,and as soon as I can afford to upgrade.
    I plan on it.
    My knowledge of computer security is improving dramaticaly,thanks to forums such as these and general
    web based research.
    Jason I did not mean to judge you,or to be defensive.

    I was recently layed off from work(so money is an major issue)I am on my fith day of nicotine withdraws:(....lol
    But what the hell the money I save on smokes will allow me a few software upgrades:)
     
  7. Tony H

    Tony H Registered Member

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    Hi,

    I run a dual boot Win98se and WinXP Pro. I use Norton big time - Utilities, NAV and NIS f/w.

    I have had a problem with Norton, lose of subsciption and disabled NAV. I discovered that the cause of this was Norton Utilities and having multiple copies of Norton. I install on XP AND on 98se. I also kept a back up.

    So when I run Win Doctor or System check, and there has been a problem through general usage etc, the repair option has lots to choose from and , being a lazy sod, I just click on 'repair all' the Utilities will link and repair anywhere it finds something that looks good to it, with consequent bad results.

    Now I take much more care and choose the repair options - and I have minimised the number of copies of Norton I keep.

    This may help you, I don't know - but a cautionary tale non the less.

    btw - the cure was to reinstall.

    Tony
     
  8. controler

    controler Guest

    Yes that is BS about Norton being a "Trojan"

    I am betting I have used Norton longer than anybody here and still be able to say I have never had a problem yet with their AV. I have it on my XP system too. Yes they have a MD5 file check with their manual updates.
    Yes !!!!!!!!! you can have problems with Norton Utilities if you aren't somewhat sure what you are doing, EVEN if it was intented to be a powerful set of tols in unknowledgeable hands. In Norton's early days
    it was people like those that frequent this forum that used Norton Utilities exclusivly. Those that really know ALL Nortons products will not sit here and say they are all junk. They will not say ha ha we make a better AV scanner and maybe one or two other programs but Norton only makes about 50 usless products. I am betting even though they don't admit it, They still use PC Anywhere.
    If I didn't think Executive Software's defrag was better, I would still recommend Norton's defrag.
    Even though I have been a REAL beta tester for both Norton and
    Executive Software, I still say XP is allright and they won't let me Beta for them unless I pay those big bucks.
    Thank you for letting me vent again

    Yours truly
    controler with 1 L
     
  9. jws

    jws Guest

    Phil,

    I am interested in your experience with NAV. About a month ago I used LiveUpdate to update my NAV. The next time I booted up my system it crashed. Problems continued until I could not startup WindowsXP anymore, not even in safe mode.

    I had to reinstall the entire OS and all applications. Although I was not sure, for various reasons I suspected NAV. Can you explain a little more? Any concrete explanation as to what happened?

    By the way, thanks to these forums I am now using NOD32. No problems.
     
  10. Phil

    Phil Registered Member

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    To be perfectly honest jws, I don't know what happened -- other than the fact it WAS the Norton update that caused it. I never got a reply from Symantec that made ANY sense at all. They kept saying it had to be something wrong with my system that caused it. Yeah, right! I went to the Symantec support boards and there were several other XP users with the same problem -- some even to the point of a complete system install like you. The "strange" thing is all of those posts, including mine, simply disappeared. Must have been a space-time warp, huh. :D

    The only other low-level app I had running at the time was Kerio firewall and it had been through MANY Liveupdates with no problem. Symantec wanted to blame it on everything except what actually caused it -- their own code. Now, it may have been system specific, but there were many more than just mine affected. Another strange part of the incident was Norton simply *refused* to reinstall no matter what I did. It would reach a certain point and just stop. I did find an article in their db that described the symptoms but the "fix" would not work. Once again, Symantec support was NO help and would not offer any kind of refund or other course of action. I suspect I had missed cleaning some entry in my reg that was preventing the reinstall. Symantec gave me what they *said* was a complete list of everything put in the reg by Norton, but I had already found 43 that was not on the list. Apparently they are not going to tell you everything.

    I think I mentioned I have NAV on two other machines (not XP) here running with no problems and that is fact. It is also fact NAV will NOT be running on those machines when my updates expire, nor will it be running any longer on the 37 machines at my office. What comes around, goes around. :cool:

    Phil
     
  11. Phil

    Phil Registered Member

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    I know -- no problems here. :)

    Yeah -- wouldn't that be a hoot. AFAIK, there is nothing of that sort in ANY Symantec product.

    Phil
     
  12. Hank

    Hank Registered Member

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    good old europe
    I can nothing say about the "trojan-aspect" but my experiences with
    Symantec are hard enough to have a nearly Norton-free-zone ;
    except Winfax which is very good.
    Only two examples: I changed from WIN98 to WIN2000 Prof. two
    months ago.I bought the Norton Antivirus 2003 Prof.Edition and the
    system crashed in that way,that the whole partition C:\ was gone.
    This happened several times after tried out ; fortunately I use
    Drive Image which meant not so much work after the desaster.
    Help from Symantec ? Nothing.After a few days I found out ,that
    Symantec wrote: "There might be problems with this AV-version and
    WIN2000." Great ! But you do not find any hint if you buy this product.
    Since this time I use NOD32 - excellent.
    For joke I made the Symantec-online-security-test with the newest
    Norton Personal Firewall-version.Their advice: I am in a real danger
    and should buy their InternetSecurity. Häh ?
    Hidden behind a hardware-firewall and a software-firewall (for some
    reasons) I made the same test at grc.com with the expected results
    (correct).
    Now I use the combination with Tiny 4.0 and it works fine.
    Other products from Symantec ? Please not....

    Hank
     
  13. luv2bsecure

    luv2bsecure Infrequent Poster

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    Well, since this thread has turned into a Yea/Ney Norton thing. Put me down for Yea. A problem with a download every once and awhile just happens. Anybody who has had the opportunity to tour Symantec in Cupertino would be hard pressed to think some of these mini-av companies can come close to competing on a total scale. For example, how many of us turn to the Symantec Security Response page when we need immediate info? I'm sure a lot of us.
    http://securityresponse.symantec.com/

    This is a huge company http://www.symantec.com/corporate/ and they have tons of some of the best security people in the world working on the Norton AV side of the building. To truly think they are anything less than exemplary in their work is not being realistic. I should say, at least that's my opinion.

    Norton Utilities is a staple of any box I use. It's proved it's worth time and time again and frankly - is taken for granted by a lot of people - it's just always there. WinDoctor alone is worth the price of Norton Utilities. I've been using it since the late eighties and to hear Norton bashed the way it is kind of riles me - while respecting the others opinion. We all have our opinions. I think a lot of it IS the fact that they are a big company. With some things -- small is better. Virus research? Sorry, to me, it ain't one of 'em.

    All the best! (and fire away :eek: )

    John
    Luv2BSecure
     
  14. Hank

    Hank Registered Member

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  15. controler

    controler Guest

    Phil ?

    Is that Kerio made by Mc afee now?

    "The only other low-level app I had running at the time was Kerio firewall and it had been through MANY Liveupdates with no problem."
     
  16. Phil

    Phil Registered Member

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    Not to my knowledge -- Kerio is still Kerio. McAfee bought their product from a software company in Canada (the name escapes me at the moment) and Kerio is an Eastern European product.

    Phil
     
  17. Phil

    Phil Registered Member

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    The name of the Canadian product McAfee bought was Conseal Personal Desktop. I figured I would remember as soon as I hit the "post" button on the above. I hate it when that happens. :D

    Phil
     
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