Surveillance concerns bring an end to crusading site Groklaw

Discussion in 'privacy general' started by FreddyFreeloader, Aug 20, 2013.

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  1. FreddyFreeloader

    FreddyFreeloader Registered Member

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    A legally informed Web site critical of lawsuits from the SCO Group, Apple, Oracle, and patent trolls shuts down because its founder says e-mail can't be protected from government scrutiny.
    by Stephen Shankland
    | August 20, 2013 4:11 AM PDT

    Citing concerns about privacy and government surveillance, Pamela Jones is shutting down her site Groklaw, which for years took on what she and vocal fans saw as wrongheaded legal action in the tech domain.

    "There is now no shield from forced exposure," Jones said in final blog post Tuesday. Groklaw depended on collaboration over e-mail, "and there is now no private way, evidently, to collaborate."
    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-5...cerns-bring-an-end-to-crusading-site-groklaw/
     
  2. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    That's silly, and sad.

    Mostly, it displays ignorance :(
     
  3. siljaline

    siljaline Former Poster

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  4. Mman79

    Mman79 Registered Member

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    *sigh* And I was looked at as stupid for thinking websites shutting down over government concerns could hurt the web and us. Every time this will happen, another method and source of sharing information is taken away...we don't think that is harmful?
     
  5. CloneRanger

    CloneRanger Registered Member

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    This self censorship & capitulation & bending over etc, is getting outa hand :mad: Who next ?

    I understand their reasons, but if people don't stand up to bullies, the bullies win. Fortunately there is usually someone who will turn round & give em a black eye before too long :)

    And what is ALL this surveilance "supposed" to be for, terrorists. Except it's been Oficially admitted that NOT one REAL terrorist has been caught due to having it. Plenty of patsies/stooges etc, but that's it !
     
  6. Mman79

    Mman79 Registered Member

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    I can't even speak my mind here fully because it'll just get locked up, but terrorism prevention is just an easier way for the pill to be swallowed. It's not really about preventing terrorism.

    Anyway, the worst thing is that it's the privacy and rights-minded organizations that are shutting down, the ones who actually are supposed to fight back. When they don't feel like they have a chance in hell, why on earth do people think that the likes of Google, who have everything to lose and closer ties to the various government will fight back? These huge players are going to be the last to fight back for obvious reasons.
     
  7. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    It's just FUD and lack of imagination.

    It's a big step from "we can't safely host in the US" to "safe hosting is impossible"!

    Hosting at prq.se and using Counermail would be a good first step. Setting up a secure hidden service and tor2web gateway would be harder, but not impossible. And so on ...

    I see the fnords :eek:
     
  8. Mman79

    Mman79 Registered Member

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    Lol, I fail to see how any of this is FUD. Of course, and no personal offense meant, you still want to keep concentrating on how to avoid the problem instead of trying to actually solve the problem. That problem being that government surveillance is so out of hand that companies are shutting their doors and/or services rather than deal with the mess. You also need reminding of how big a pull the U.S has in other nations that aren't ran by dictators and warlords, and you need reminding of the surveillance programs in place in many other nations. Germany? Has a huge one. The U.K? In cahoots with the U.S programs and arguably has better programs than the U.S. Russia? Ask its citizens how freedom and privacy is doing there. South America? Same as Russia. Middle East? Let's not even start. Africa? The U.S is swarming all over the continent, and where they aren't, good luck setting up servers. Asia? Again, ask its citizens in the individual nations that aren't influenced by U.S policy. There is always Antarctica I suppose.

    Again, I mean no offense to you because you're obviously well versed in hiding. However, every post you make explaining how to get around things and putting a little winking smiley face icon with "There are ways"..isn't going to fix a thing.

    P.S, TOR isn't untouchable. PRQ, whatever, FreedomHosting just got blown apart and they were safer than PRQ.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2013
  9. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    For all the reasons that you just listed, I can't imagine how the problem could actually be solved. In the short term at least, getting around things is really the only viable alternative to giving up, or going down as a martyr. And it's the only way to survive long enough to have any hope of fixing things.
     
  10. Mman79

    Mman79 Registered Member

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    Exactly, there is no solution save for the thread locking discussion of policy. As long as these policies are in place, there really is no hope of fixing things. Tech isn't unlimited unfortunately. The more tools like IP blocking and privacy-minded server hosting that get taken away, the less options we have to fight back and get around it all. That's why the latest IP blocking decision and these companies shutting down is so rough. We're getting tools and allies taken away. Being a martyr makes you look great in the history books, but if your martyrdom doesn't change a thing, then you're just that, a great story in history.
     
  11. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    It really doesn't matter that we can't discuss politics here, because that path is hopeless, at least in the short term. There's too much inertia, and most people don't care enough, or are too afraid. But, in any case, there are other places to explore those issues. What we can do here is help people to hide, and have secure ways to keep discussions going.
     
  12. Nebulus

    Nebulus Registered Member

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    What most of us are we doing is trying to dodge the problems that we are facing by using technological means. And we are discussing them here, because this is a tech forum. But unfortunately this doesn't really solves the root of the problems, it just gives the few of us who are skilled at using a computer a way around them.

    As Mman79 said above, there are ways to actually solve the problems, but the solution is not something to be discussed on a technology forum.
     
  13. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    It seems like a good time to again mention The Second Realm strategy: -https://anarplex.net/projects/secondrealm.html-
     
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