SUPERAntiSpyware 5.x

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

I have to agree with Nick here. Most computer users are not, nor should they be require to be computer experts. If you as a user get infected by a drive-by-download then it's not "your fault for being stupid and ignorant". I think we all need to remember who the bad guys here are - it's the malware authors with their fake antivirus applications and other malicious code. Nick and his company is just helping users get rid of what the bad guys manage to get onto users' systems.

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

One of the biggest problems I've seen with SAS is that people run the scans with old definition updates or old versions so basically they wasted their time and their computers are NOT properly cleaned or protected. Of course this is the FREE edition, but they wind up getting infected and have no incentive to buy the pay version because the FREE edition failed them.

I wonder, has SAS v5.0 done anything to overcome this problem?

---pete---

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

I typically install SAS FREE edition on all my customer's computers and encourage them to use it and eventually buy the pay/pro version. One of the best selling points as I tell them; "The guy who writes this program is not a greedy person because he offers a lifetime subscription and you don't have to keep paying each year, over and over again". After I tell them all that they are impressed and often ask what exactly does "lifetime" mean? I tell them I believe it means the lifetime of your computer, but I'm not really sure. Some people are very skeptical of any claims to LIFETIME subscriptions.

Anyway, all the above is good, but it's not perfect, so on the topic of SAS v5.0, I'd like to offer a suggestion in relation to subscription periods. Instead of offering a LIFETIME subscription, include a 3 year subscription (HUGE selling point over your competitors) with all purchases of the pay/pro version and offer upgrades to a 5 year subscription for $10 more or a 10 year subscription for $20 more. This could potentially bring in more revenue over the long term and eliminate any skepticism over LIFETIME subscriptions issues. At the time of sale, make it very clear that the subscription is transferable to a different computer but only one computer at a time.

---pete---

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

I'm sure other security vendors claim such big numbers, or even bigger ones. I don't see the relevance to this discussion. People download what's free and they install the most they can to be "sure" their systems are clean, because they don't know how to keep them clean in the first place.

With all due respect, I don't fall for that. You and every other security vendor that offer free versions of their paid products, or stripped down versions from products like suites, do it because you do know that, if people get happy knowing their systems are clean - even if it may not be -, they may decide to buy the full product. Sorry, but all this is done within the perspective of a business model. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Nothing against the fact you do need money. Everyone needs it. I need it, heck.

Sorry, but if security vendors start explaining users how they can use their own operating system security mechanisms and properly configured web browsers; how to spot phishing scams; explain them that their banks will never contact them via e-mail asking to confirm codes, etc, you'll all be out of business.

I've been at your site, and http://superantispyware.com/support.html explains nothing about security, and http://www.superantispyware.com/blog/ just has a small information regarding Rogues you catch and not much information provided on what actually those rogues do, like what files they create, registry keys, etc.

I wonder what "We provide lots of information" really means

OK. You also have stuff like this http://www.superantispyware.com/definition/halflemon/

Is this it?

Anyway, I'm seeing it from the perspective of a consumer, and you're seeing it from the perspective of the vendor. So, we'll never agree with each other.

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

I don't know what lifetime means for SUPERAntispyware, but for many others it means you've got a license for as long as the product exists. If the product ends tomorrow, then so does the lifetime license.

Imagine one of your costumers buys, today, a product with a lifetime license. It tomorrow the company or developer ends with the product, then that's the end of it. That's what a lifetime license means. It's not for the lifetime of the person who bought the product, not the computers. It's the lifetime of the product itself, for as long as it remains on the market.

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

If people are downloading old versions of our software and NOT updating the definitions or product, there is not much we can "do" about that - we update our definitions 2-10 times each day - the installers get built with the latest definitions.

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

The lifetime subscription means for the life of the product - as long as we develop SUPERAntiSpyware you get updates and upgrades for free

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

Yes, the customer can "gamble" - we have been in business nearly 7 years - so if they don't want to pay $9.95 for a LIFETIME license they can renew each year for $14.95 "just in case" we were to go out of business. But at $9.95, the lifetime license is a steal.

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

You are actually incorrect, in my opinion - we approach things from the view of the consumer as that's who we create our product for. No matter how much education we provide, people will ALWAYS get infected and ALWAYS need products to fix "mistakes" - look at drugs and sexually transmitted diseases - the world provides HUGE amounts of "education" to everyone, yet people are still doing and getting hooked on drugs and getting sexually transmitted diseases despite the fact that everyone knows the harm.

As for Education - here are some blogs we have provided over the years - as users are always confused about "testing", "product selection", etc. some of these pertain to our specific security space, while others are general information.

Our new education center covers scams, phishing, common practices, things to avoid, education for kids, moms, etc. - and even when we fully education people they will still get infected and we will be here to help!

Are Cookies Really Spyware
http://www.superantispyware.com/blog/2006/10/12/are-cookies-really-spyware/

The Ethics of Business Practice : Deceptive Advertising
http://www.superantispyware.com/blo...s-of-business-practice-deceptive-advertising/

The Importance of Testing Methodology
http://www.superantispyware.com/blog/2006/10/12/the-importance-of-testing-methodology/

Are Suites Really "Sweet"
http://www.superantispyware.com/blog/2006/11/16/are-suites-really-sweet/

What are the incentives for Malware/Spyware Testing
http://www.superantispyware.com/blog/2007/03/08/what-are-the-incentives-for-malwarespyware-testing/

Developers - Fill out that version information
http://www.superantispyware.com/blo...formation-and-watch-where-you-put-your-files/

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

Malware is a game. And an addicting one.

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

I'm a little unclear. Is SAS somehow more deserving of criticism, or do you feel this way about all anti-malware products/vendors? Your comment that security vendors are not motivated to explain to users how to protect their systems using "their own operating system security mechanisms" seems off to me. Your implying that the OS already has everything it needs and that users are actually motivated to learn...both are highly debatable. Windows is not sufficiently secure "out of the box" IMHO. Pointing out that a highly educated user has less need for additional security software because he can harden the OS directly is both true and not particularly useful since most users are not educated. There is no shortage of information available to users who are motivated to learn - no one is withholding the information - but only a small percentage have the aptitude and make the effort. Security vendors have the unenviable task of trying to create products that protect users in spite of their ignorance.

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

Not sure why you had to explain all that, like in a defensive way, but OK. I was only explaining the user who exposed the doubt, what a lifetime license truly means. That's all. I wrote no lies, have I

That's what security vendors want, isn't it?

You're actually making an unfair comparison. While there is information available, not everyone has access to due to the fact the information doesn't go them, unless someone brings it to them, because they can't afford to put hands on that information. How can you expect millions of poor people who have no access to television, etc have access to the information? Those who get the information, get it because others are willing to go there and explain them the dangers of what their actions bring to them and others as well.

Those who are hooked on drugs, are due to many reasons, and it's also unfair to make a comparison with people using computers.

Then, those who deliberately know they're ill and still have sexual relationships, unprotected with other people, they do it because they're morons. Plain and simple.

I truly haven't read any thing mentioning means people can actually use to protect themselves.

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

1. There was nothing defensive about explaining the lifetime license - I simply explained the benefits - you tried/attempted to show the "downside" - meaning,if the vendor no longer exists.

2. Security vendors don't want people infected, nor do they want users to have their identify stolen, etc. just as doctors don't want people to be sick or in pain but they (doctors) exist because people get sick and need treatment no matter how "careful" they are about not getting "sick" - the same thing applies to computers and virus/spyware infections.

3. It's not an unfair comparison - it's a parallel that ties to real-world issues - meaning the fact that there is education out there doesn't mean people will use it or heed it's advice. You seem to try and spin everything towards a negative meaning - take a step back.

4. Protecting yourself is not just "setting Windows Settings" and "knowing what not to click" - that works for tech people, not end-users - part of protection is having something proactive in place so if the users "makes a mistake and clicks something" there is a chance for prevention.

You could be infected and not even know it - what would that mean? Nothing, mistakes happen, no amount of settings nor prevention can 100% guarantee a clean system.

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

There are so many wonderful people here on this forum who have provided their knowledge to the proactive approach in regard to malware prevention through proper configuration and user habits. Not only have they contributed to Windows Internet security in general, but have also been successful in educating people from continuously (though unintentionally) participating in the malware "game".

Malware is a game between the black hats and the white hats. Stop playing the game. You don't have to play anymore.

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

To start with, all this started because I said I agreed with ParadigmShift that a properly configured system would take care of malware, and only tricks would be left to make us install malware, or by our own stupidity. But, unfortunately, not every user is capable of doing it so.

I never called stupid to such users. At most, lazy.

Short answer to your question: All of them. But, this is not to say I despise them. But, there clearly is a difference between explaining and telling users what they can do with their own operating system, properly configured web browsers, etc to increase their system security even further, and selling security products.

Why does it seem off to you? It's all business in the end of the day.

No security vendor actually explained what users could do to protect themselves. They only say: Our security products can protect you - Go buy them.

I haven't implied anything. I have mentioned that the operating system already has means to help protect the users; but they are unaware of that, and therefore have no way of implementing such if no one explains them.

I haven't mentioned that users are motivated to learn. I have mentioned the opposite scenario. But, if at a security vendor website, people see information explaining what they could do to protect themselves, then I'm sure they would start getting somewhere.
But, this will never happen, because security vendors, are vendors for a reason = Business. Let's not kid each other here.

Exactly, and that's precise my point. Those users have no one explaining and telling them what they can do to achieve the wanted and wished security it can provide by itself.

Exactly, and that's precise my point. I do my part explaining it to family members. But, apart from that, I have no means and time to explain it to a more people.

And, you can't deny if those users could make the most out of their operating systems and web browsers, and other Internet facing applications, then they wouldn't need layers and layers of security software.

There's a lot FUD and in the anti-malware industry. It's just like when new threats emerge; there's many security blogs from such companies with info full cryptic stuff, and none actually telling the users, in simple terms, what such malware does to achieve the infection status, and hence what they can do to prevent the infection in the first place.

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

Here is one example of how the game is being played. Not only is the statement incorrect, but also irresponsible. It's a manipulative tactic used to stay in business. It's almost like an abusive relationship, "You need me and you can't live without me." It's baloney.

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

I don't agree it's a fair comparison, but OK. Let's leave it there.

Actually, it starts there.

I never mentioned anything related to "knowing what not to click". I don't know in what not to click in 50% of times. I don't know where I'll be taken when I'm searching for some matter in a search engine or website. Or if, even at a deemed safe website I'll be infected. But, a proper configured web browser will take care of most infection attacking vectors, including drive-by downloads.

So, "knowing what not to click", nowadays doesn't even apply to tech people. Unless, of course any one decides to study every and each website.

Correct. But, that's why a proper configured and protected web browser, e-mail client or other Internet facing applications make all the difference.

Yes, mistakes do happen. Yes, prevention cannot guarantee 100%, but it can guarantee nearly 100%. And, that's the problem, because most people don't have access to information explaining them how to achieve such.

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

Excuse me? Tactic to stay in business? Show me how that statement is incorrect and irresponsible. You can provide education until the end of time, just like with drugs and sex - yet people will still become infected or fall prey scams, etc.

The reality is that configuration based protection and knowning exactly "what's a scam", etc. works for technical people as they have the knowledge of what's what - end-users don't have that knowledge - even armed with the knowledge mistakes happen.

Are doctors "staying in business because sickeness is a game"? No.

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

Ok, allow me to clarify. I install SAS Free Edition, I explain the importance of updating definitions before doing the scan. I also explain the difference between program updates and definition updates. I come back months later and find that they are doing the scans but with old updates. I also see that the program updates are not being performed. This happen in the majority of cases so it's a HUGE problem. Remember, the folks I service are novice to intermediate level.

So I ask them why they didn't do the updates and they often say they were afraid to click on the popup for fear it was a fake alert. I can tell by their answers that they don't have a clue about the difference between definition updates and program updates.

Ok, with all that said, my suggestion is to add code to SAS Scanner module that would check the date of definitions before doing the scan. If the definition updates are more than 1 day old, SAS would automatically DL and install the updates. In Preferences, this would be the default setting, but I'd allow an option to disable the automatic update feature for ADVANCED users.

Ok that solves the DEFINITION update problem. To solve the PROGRAM update problem, I'd simply make the definition update and program update one seamless operation. The average user that I see doesn't understand the difference between the 2 anyway, so why complicate things by having separate type of updates and 2 totally different processes for executing those updates.

If the SAS developers are holding out on the automatic update feature as a means to entice pay/registration, I believe they are shooting themselves in the foot. From my experience in convincing my customers to pay for SAS, it's the scheduled scans, real time protection, and lifetime updates that sells it. Not updating automatically, only harms the reputation of SAS.

---pete---

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

Pete - thanks for the CONSTRUCTIVE response - many of these items have been handled in the upcoming version 5.0 Currently SUPERAntiSpyware tells you if you haven't checked for updates recently and has a "click here to update" option right on that screen.

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

Stop treating people like this. They don't need your product or your manipulation. People are smart, they can learn. They can open their minds to new methods and habits. They don't have to stay addicted. They don't have to play a "game" that they're not even aware they're playing.

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

Ok, you have posted your "game" comments enough - security is not a game - it's a reality and so are infections - please keep the thread on track.

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

I agree 100% from a LOGICAL point of view. However, we are dealing with humans and humans are often more emotional than logical. Any good business man who wants to succeed learns to deal with people and their emotions. So I have noticed that people start off with a feeling of distrust when they are offered a LIFETIME subscription for such a low price. Remember, almost everyone knows someone who got burn by LIFETIME warranties. My suggestion is to eliminate that negative aspect by offering a more believable deal that won't invoke any thoughts of mistrust. In other words, you can actually offer them less of a deal, earn more in revenues, and not invoke any negative emotions.

---pete---

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

"security is not a game"

No, malware is. Stop manipulating the point.

 

Re: SUPERAntiSpyware 5.0

That makes sense as well - it's hard to please everyone all the time - meaning, some people LOVE the lifetime as it makes sense and is a great deal - where I can see others seeing it the way you described above.