Stop configuring anything

Discussion in 'other software & services' started by Huupi, Jul 6, 2007.

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  1. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    I suppose most computers out there in the world are used by non technical people, housewives,young kids , mostly they have no interest in the difficult things like looking for and configuring their security stuff hence so many infected systems.If i look at Nod 32 for example, the complexity with configuring this app.is mindboggling and completely above the heads of most people and there are many more to setup like Nod 32.If the vendors who shell out these stuff are really concerned about their customers they sure would make their app. more userfriendly and more intelligent [like prescanning the system and then automatic setup based on the prescan]it would take the strain out for these people and hence more satisfied customers and more sales.
     
  2. eniqmah

    eniqmah Registered Member

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    Um, no.
    The only reliable weapon is the weapon of knowledge. Systems vary so widely in their configurations that choosing these "modes" of protections is still an ineffective way to set up security. Intelligent software is meaningless when I want to view that porn site because I WILL click yes.
     
  3. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    No it is up to Vendors to put "knowledge"in their app.They have to, cause majority has no knowledge or is not capable to figure things out.Thats my point,conciouss people with good habits as far as internet is concerned are still at a loss as how to set things up the right way.I am not speaking about Wilders solutions.You are looking from the geeky point of view,no the average John is completely unaware or has no interest about help on the internet,and i think the average John is the majority so vendors has to come up with solutions.
     
  4. eniqmah

    eniqmah Registered Member

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    With all respect to the intelligence of software developers, the weakest link in the security of their software is the stupidity of the person using their software. It is my opinion that developers are not smart enough to patch that kind of hole. They've attempted to do so via "real time protection" modules, but, again, I WILL turn off that real time protection and click Yes when my hormones are raging. The vendors have done what they could by having presets for different levels of configurations. Comodo FW is one application that I recently tried which does such a thing.
     
  5. ThunderZ

    ThunderZ Registered Member

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    I have to agree with Eniqmah. IMO it is all about personal responsibility. AV\AS\AM\FW developers are right in the middle. If their default settings are to tight\strict they will hear complaints. The same will happen if if they are to lose. If the user can not take the time to do a little reading\learning then the fault lies with them. The unfortunate fact is, their willingness to remain ignorant effects us all as we are all members of one big WAN. Just my .02. Now I am off my soapbox.
     
  6. bigc73542

    bigc73542 Retired Moderator

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    eniqmah, I don't believe the average user of security apps is stupid as you state. It is just that the average user is just not educated on the use security software. People here on Wilders or any other security forum are savvy enough to want to learn more about their security. But the vast majority of computer users have no desire to have to become a security expert to use any single piece of software and that is why the software developers set the defaults where they do. Strong enough to afford some protection but not severe enough to interfere with the surfing and use of their computers of the average user. Can you imagine what would happen if the software developers set the defaults at maximum, their customer support would be overwhelmed. That is if the average user even recognized that it was the security apps restricting their use. It is not necessarily better apps that are needed just better education and training on the existing ones would really help.

    bigc
     
  7. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    We dont live in an ideal world,yes more restrictions because of severe defaults and hence more complaints by customers ,but what is the alternative,mass infected systems as we have today because of the widespread ignorance how to handle these security app.As said earlier and now again for some reason or another the masses cant deal with these stuff,its to complicated[sure ask my wife]and you cant blame her for that,only vendors are to blame cause they dont listen or are not aware what the masses realy need,only making things for geeks here at wilders.What we need are very bright coders and management who stay in tune what the average not educated john needs and take it seriously.Why ! Vendors will earn $$ as much as possible so its advised to take a look at the average Susies needs.
     
  8. MikeBCda

    MikeBCda Registered Member

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    I tend to agree with bigc, the typical non-savvy user probably never even heard of security apps, much less has them or uses them. For them, the fact that the Win firewall is these days active by default may well be the only hint of protection they have.
     
  9. WSFuser

    WSFuser Registered Member

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    There are already userfriendly and intelligent security program, just look at Prevx2, a-squared 3.0, and NIS2007.

    I have to agree with eniqmah and bigc. The problem is teh weakest link, usually the user. No software can protect someone from their own lack of knowledge.
     
  10. mistycat

    mistycat Registered Member

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    Yes, the user is the weakest link but I'd have to agree with Huupi on this. I consider myself technically a step above the average user and not a particularly safe surfer and taking Nod 32 as an example would like to use it but won't because it's too complicated and takes too long to set up. If that makes me stupid, so be it. I have used many, many AV's over the years including Norton, Trend, Kaspersky, Panda, BitDefender, AVG, Avira, Avast and more and trialed Nod 32 several times but never fully understood it and won't try again.
     
  11. innerpeace

    innerpeace Registered Member

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    I used to be one of the 'stupid' users. My thinking used to be if I paid $60-$70 dollars for a big name suite, it should protect me. Well it didn't because the subscription ran out and I didn't have up to date defs. :gack:

    I have done a lot of reading since then and no average user should have to do that. A lot of them will even consider it. If they can't click on that little 'e' icon and get online to look at everything they want, then their not happy. IMO the vendors are doing a good job, I think the law enforcement and government agencies should step up and shut down the bad guys.

    I agree, programs warnings are getting more user friendly and easier to understand. It's also good to see programs that are highly configurable for the rest of us. It's unfortunate, but the best solution for new and uneducated users is to install AVG AV, Windows Defender and Windows firewall and a router if possible. At least the definitions won't run out when they don't renew there subscriptions and it affords them some protection. It's also good to give them some on-demand scanners, but getting them to use them is another story. If they become more interested in securing their computer, (usually a malware infection might peak their interests) then suggest a program that would seem the next logical step. My sister has the above setup and she now uses CCleaner when the computer gets slow.

    When a new user posts here a Wilders and nobody asks their user level and starts suggesting programs like SSM and Jetico, I just cringe :ouch: . What good is a program if the user doesn't understand it? Anyways, that's just my opinion.

    Cheers, innerpeace

    Edit: changed a word
     
  12. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    I believe that most apps try to be as user friendly out of the box as possible, yet allowing for full configuration if needed...
     
  13. ThunderZ

    ThunderZ Registered Member

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    We all were ignorant at one time when it came to PCs. I feel stupid is the wrong word for this instance. I still am very aware I have a long way to go when reading many of the posts here by the far more advanced Users.

    I do`t know if a lot of reading is required.

    Most are doing the best they can.... It is a hard line to draw when designing a security app. then deciding on default settings. Look at all the potential avenues for attack yet still keep the pages viewable and enjoyable. ActiveX, Java, java script, Flash......



    In many places they have started. But the Net is world wide, so are the bad guys. It is not a simple task.




    Have found myself guilty of exactly that earlier in my time on PCs. Now when offering help I attempt to start slow with my questions and get a feeling of how comfortable\knowledgeable they are, wish to become before I proceed. I have seen way to many people get a glazed over look in their eyes :blink: if I offer to much to fast. We tend to forget :doubt: that WE were Them at some point a while ago. ;)
     
  14. innerpeace

    innerpeace Registered Member

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    I was only quoting the word 'stupid' from an earlier post. A word that would fit better would be naive or even better, unfamiliar. I did feel stupid though when I finally figured out that I had over 2000 files infected.

    This may be true, I've done a lot of reading and feel that I haven't even dented the surface of computer security. Some of the posts I read are way over top my head. I get that glazed look in my eyes that you mentioned. I just recently figured out I may as well settle for a layered approach that includes a sandbox and a partition virtualization app. It's the first time I have felt warm and fuzzy in a while.

    I totally agree!

    I guess it doesn't help that some of the governments and organizations are corrupt and using the web as a money maker. I still have hope that the 'fire' will be put out at its base. Either that, or a solid OS for the masses.

    Lol yeah, it wasn't that long ago for me. Just last fall I was using NIS 2006 :gack:. I have come a long way since then and hope to bring others with me. I might get enthusiastic about a program I'm using from time to time, especially if it's solid/stable, but I try to adhere to a simple motto, "Do no harm".

    Have a great weekend,
    innerpeace
     
  15. museheart

    museheart Registered Member

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    I can see almost everyone here uses NOD, what is it?

    For computer dummies, I was wondering if anyone has tried Norton 360?

    I have read a lot of reviews but haven't found anything here, yet.

    Any response?

    Thanks,

    PS: I have not updated my webpages in a long time...sorry.
     
  16. WSFuser

    WSFuser Registered Member

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  17. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    I agree the wilders and the like are somewhat geeky,but the number of members on these forums pale to nothing as compared to the majority of computerusers on the globe,if we agree that this majority has no wishes or arent able to delve into security issues [and as of now its clearly that i voices my concern for this majority,and not for you guys her at wilders]than vendors has something to do for these millions of ignorant users.Setting up the stuff at defaults is stupid,but there are other ways,what you think about an online scan at setup the specific configuration linked with a big software/hardware database at vendors home and based on that suggest the specific settings for this particular rig.[remotely like prevx].The real problem on the internet is ignorance,and that has many reasons,one of them is the setup of all this stuff,its to difficult for the average Susie.
     
  18. museheart

    museheart Registered Member

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    I have check it out but Norton will give no support because I am on the trialware.

    I wanted to try the NIS. That is one reason I like Trend Micro, their support is excellent.
     
  19. museheart

    museheart Registered Member

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    I do agree that most people are clueless about the Internet. I try to keep up but it moves too fast for me.

    Sometimes setting up a program at the default is easier than screwing up the program and not knowing what you are letting in and out...that is for we not-geek-types.
     
  20. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    Most people here at Wilders love to dig in security issues,so the item of this thread is not that hot,but we can't deny the fact that almost all internetusers fall or will fall victum to the cyberspace criminals[in the light of comparing numbers] now or in the future with an ever increasing rate.A vendor can make a perfect security app.but for one reason or another most people can't configure correctly than what use has this stuff ? As earlier said there has to be more focus on intelligently taking out the userinput and instead put the task to the Vendor to setup their stuff based on the specific config. of each and every computer.
     
  21. museheart

    museheart Registered Member

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    Thank you.
     
  22. PhiloVance

    PhiloVance Registered Member

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    Just have to say it.

    I wouldn't trust anything from Nortons, again. :rolleyes:
     
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