Should anti malware companies ALLOW certain keyloggers to spy on you at work?

Discussion in 'other anti-malware software' started by Horus37, Jun 29, 2007.

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  1. Horus37

    Horus37 Registered Member

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    Wonder if this is some kind of industry wide practice that the legit keylogging companies have with the anti malware companies so their products work at the corporate office?
     
  2. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    hello Horus37,
    remember an employee has to sign a disclaimer before the employer is legally allowed to record your keystrokes.
    i dont think employers should be allowed to spy on you with a keylogger.
    lodore
     
  3. sukarof

    sukarof Registered Member

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    I have no problem if my employer wants to keep track on what I do with their computer. Surely no sane person does anything private (or bad stuff) on any other computer than their own. I see it as a "nature law" that you are not private in anything you do unless you control it your self (well, as private as you can be.)

    I think it is funny that many people think that the work-computer is their private property.
    But I am very vigilant when it comes to governments or companies trying to spy on me when I do it on my own property.

    If a anti-malware company does a special edition of the software for companies, I have no problem with them letting key loggers pass if the company wants it that way. But if the malware company implements a weaker security on their product they sell to the public - I wouldnt poke at it with a stick even.
     
  4. besafe

    besafe Registered Member

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    Companies have the right to make certain that their employees aren't goofing off on the internet all day or disobeying the companies computer policies. I see nothing wrong with recording keystrokes at the office.

    But at home, TOTALLY different story.
     
  5. spindoctor

    spindoctor Registered Member

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    I would think if a product detected keyloggers on your home pc it should work at the office as well. Remember your boss could be using a hardware keylogger, so no software based antimalware could detect it. But if you really wanted to, there are ways to get around any type of keyloggers (hardware or software) at the office, just be prepared to lose your job if you do it.
     
  6. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    Hi spindoctor,
    in certain countries its illegal to uise hardware/software keyloggers to spy on employers unless the employee signs a disclaimer saying its ok.
    so if you employer is using a keylogger and your havent signed a disclaimer youy should find out what the law is in your country.
    if its illegal you have the right to call the cops on your employer.
    do we have any lawyers here?
    lodore
     
  7. Joeythedude

    Joeythedude Registered Member

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    No
    Your should have a high degree of privacy in your workplace.
    Would you think it correct to have someone listen to your phone calls or read emails because they pay you money ?
    I think the employer lobby is nuts.
     
  8. coolbluewater

    coolbluewater Registered Member

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    Unless the employer and employee are based in a country where it's expressly forbidden, it's up to the employee to read the fine print before agreeing to be hired. No one is holding a gun to make someone sign anything they don't agree with beforehand (at least, let's hope not).
    If the employer specifies that a computer in the workplace is only a tool for job-related tasks, it's ignorant for the employee to assume otherwise and does so at his/her own risk.
    Home computers that are personal property is another matter entirely, and it's unfortunate that information being sent out without user consent isn't limited to what most users consider malware.
     
  9. tamdam

    tamdam Registered Member

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    if the employer provides you a work computer then of course they should be able to monitor what you do on it. Home or office. Its the company's property, and presumably they don't give you a work computer to perform private matters. Use your own computer for that - they can't install a keylogger on YOUR computer if you never bring it to the office!
     
  10. JerryM

    JerryM Registered Member

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    Unless it is illegal, I support an employers right to monitor his computers. Employees are to work, and not play on the computer, and visit who knows where sites.
    In either case it is not the responsibility of the anti-malware companies to determine that they should not permit such monitoring.

    Jerry
     
  11. herbalist

    herbalist Guest

    It's not their decision to make and wouldn't make a difference either way. The employee doesn't have the right to install any anti-malware or anti-keylogger app on a computer they don't own. In most places I've worked, installing software on company PCs is grounds for termination.
    Rick

    edited to fix typo's
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 29, 2007
  12. the Tester

    the Tester Registered Member

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    The anti-malware developers don't really have a say in it.

    A work computer owned by an employer is their property.
    What software they have installed on the machine is their decision.
     
  13. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    :eek: :D That doesn't seem to be true. It's remarkable just what does happen on work computers. :rolleyes:

    Unless there are privacy laws invoked in certain circumstances then it should be OK to keep an eye on what your employees are doing with their (your) paid time and your bandwidth.

    Security concerns for employers raise their head here.

    Remember the "erased tapes" in the White House: lol he was, heh ;working for the American people.

    Think how important tracking illegal activities could be.

    Privilege Escalation could apply to certain employees?

    As usual the technology is far ahead of the understanding of how to apply it.

    As long as there is a clear declaration from the employer as to work practises and expectations: no problem.
    Secret monitoring of employees is verboten ( or should be ) cameras, keyloggers etc etc

    2c
     
  14. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Have you ever hired people to work for you?
     
  15. lucas1985

    lucas1985 Retired Moderator

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    I would enforce adhesion to accorded working rules via security policies (install permissions, removable storage, network access, etc), not installing keyloggers or monitoring behaviours.
    It's not ethical to me.
    YMMV :)
     
  16. Joeythedude

    Joeythedude Registered Member

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    No I have not.
    I suppose the implication is that if i had I would ensure they agreed to having their PC monitored in some way.
    I'm not sure I would though.

    To avoid the porn and possible legal situations regarding it, I would install some filtering software.
    To ensure employees weren't wasting time on the internet I think the best
    answer there is to have a degree of trust in the immediate employer(team leader etc)-employee relationship.

    Of course I realise that most companies have monitoring systems in place, and this is unlikely to change, but I don't think they should be encouraged.

    My basic point is that a PC is becoming more like a phone for most people at work and that a person should be entitled to a degree of privacy in a similar way when using a PC as when using a phone.
     
  17. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Joeythedude

    Part of the problem can be size. I run a business out of my apartment, and I have one person who comes in and works part time. I know this person really well, and I do nothing to monitor the computers. In fact they have a key and are welcome to use the computers when I am not there. I can do this because I know this person.

    But if I had 2 or 3 hundred people, and also was legally responible for what employee's do, then its a totally different thing. In this situation it is impossible to know everyone. Look at that survey in London. For a piece of chocolate a significant percentage of employee's gave up their work passwords. Would I be monitoring those computers. Darn right.

    Pete
     
  18. JerryM

    JerryM Registered Member

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    Think of that substitute teacher who might go to jail because there was porn on the computer in the classroom she was teaching as a sub.

    I might trust 1 or 2 folks that I knew very well, but I think the risk is too great to include the whole work force..
    My own observations are that work is not necessarily at the top of the priority list at work. There a lot of bull sessions, unofficial phone calls, and other non-work related activities that go on. There is a fair percentage of folks that do not think it is wrong to take advantage of an employer to do most anything they can get by with if they desire to do it.

    Privacy? At work there is no requirement to take privacy very far. I would not look through desks however, unless I had some good reasons. If you want to work here, then go to work. Know that I will be monitoring all computer activities. Don't want to work here? That is OK, because I want those who are dedicated and desire to excel. I suspect such folks are in the minority.

    Jerry
     
  19. herbalist

    herbalist Guest

    If employees weren't using company PCs for non-work related purposes, a question like this wouldn't need to be asked at all. Employees do not have the right to use company equipment for personal usage.
    At the last 2 jobs I've had, employees caught talking on a cellphone or texting when they're supposed to be working get fired. If they want to make phone calls, they can do that on breaktime or at lunch.

    IMO, the employer should lock their PCs down so tight that it's not possible for employees to misuse them. If it isn't necessary to the job, I'd block, disable, or remove the browser and e-mail software and make it impossible for an employee to install any software or run software installed from an external device.
    Rick
     
  20. snowbound

    snowbound Retired Moderator

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    Well said. I agree on all points. Unfortunately, where i work the abuse of PC privileges is appalling....



    snowbound
     
  21. herbalist

    herbalist Guest

    It was like that at my previous job. Most of the work stations there had at least one PC for data collection during the manufacturing process. It amazes me that some people think they should be paid to read and send e-mail jokes via the company servers. A couple of people used the shop PCs to sign up at some online dating services and had the responses sent to their shop e-mail accounts. One was fired when something she opened in that e-mail took down one of the shops servers for several days. The other one, a guy, was fired a few days later when it was determined that he was doing the same thing, except that he didn't manage to infect their network.

    I can't completely agree with an employer using a keylogger, but I'd totally support their logging all network traffic, where it connected to, what apps were used, and who was responsible for that traffic, assuming that this person or workstation actually needs an internet-able PC at all.

    How some people think they have the right to use, misuse, and abuse someone elses property escapes me, but then claiming that they have a right to privacy when doing so takes gall.
    Rick
     
  22. ThunderZ

    ThunderZ Registered Member

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    And get paid for it. :eek: :mad:
     
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