Service Pack 2 I Dont Want it. What to do?

Discussion in 'other software & services' started by AnthonyG, Feb 23, 2005.

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  1. AnthonyG

    AnthonyG Registered Member

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    I have just read someones post in the poll section saying that on april 12th microsoft is making it automatic that every computer will have SP2.

    http://www.neowin.net/comments.php?id=27171&category=main

    I do not want it and I think i should have a right to choose what software gets installed on my machine or not as every one i have spoken to said windows SP2 has completely messed up their system and i simply do not want it.

    Is there anything that can be done to stop this from happening and i can keep my xp with no service packs installed and still get windows updates for that. If not i will go now to ebay and get a cheap copy of windows 2003 (can that also be used on home systems ok).

    Thanks
    Anthony
     
  2. Firecat

    Firecat Registered Member

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    Yes, I think Windows Server 2003 can be used on home PCs.

    I also heard that for Windows XP Professional SP2 will only be forced on August. Maybe if you disable automatic update it will not download itself...other than that there is pretty much nothing you can do.
     
  3. Alec

    Alec Registered Member

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    Ok, in principle, I sort of agree with you. You should be entitled to decide what happens on your own PC. But, geez dude, it's not worth going out and buying Windows Server 2003!! SP2 is really not that bad. We will all walk you through it... we're here for ya buddy. :D

    Really, there are only a handful of noticeable changes in SP2. We can disable most of the stuff like SP2's builtin firewall and the Windows Security Center if you want after the install. I would say that 90% of the complaints about SP2 I have heard have to do either with: 1) slow initial response because the user hasn't yet fully defragmented their drive after SP2; 2) application compatibility problems with SP2's firewall which can be resolved by disabling SP2 firewall; 3) complaints of nagging from the Windows Security Center which can be disabled; and/or 4) P2P issues having to do with some TCP/IP changes SP2 makes in regards to the total number of "half-open" connections it allows. Issue number 4 is the only one that is tricky to get around if you are an avid P2P user. Not to mention but there is debate as to whether you really even should make the change since "half-open" TCP connections are sort of useless anyway (but often result on P2P networks as many of these apps send out hundreds of TCP connection requests to lots of peers that may have vanished or disconnected.)
     
  4. AnthonyG

    AnthonyG Registered Member

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    Yes but one major problem with SP2 that everyone complains about. is i on quite a few occasions I use a proxy in firefox while surfing the internet. I find my proxys using AAtools (a v.good proxy checking program). Windows SP2 has apparently closed the open connections meaning you can not check proxys no more with it on your sytem every proxy gets a timeout error.

    I do not want to stop using my AAtools so unless someone can fully open the connections again then i do not want SP2 on my system, period!.

    Second problem back in august my automatic updates chose to install SP1 without my consent (unless i accidently clicked something) and the SOB wiped my entire hard drive clean. And i had some vital university work on their that wasnt backed up to cd. I simply do not want to use SP2, SP1 or SP anything i want my windows home that i paid to use.

    Thanks for your advice though
     
  5. Michael_aust

    Michael_aust Registered Member

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    When you say automatic, do you mean it will download and you cant stop it? Or that if you dont have it you will not be able to download any of the other security updates they release?

    I do not want SP2 i downloaded it and it took me hours as i am on a dial up connection and it screwed my internet connection. I could still get on but it disabled dial tones and i could not check what number i was connected to so for all i know i could have been on one of those prenium rate numbers.

    I tried looking at that site but it would not load, so could soeone explain the issue further to me please.

    Thanks

    Michael
     
  6. Michael_aust

    Michael_aust Registered Member

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    So i finally got on to that forum, i still dont undertand the issue all i can see is there all bitchy little f***s.
     
  7. AnthonyG

    AnthonyG Registered Member

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    What Forum?
     
  8. Michael_aust

    Michael_aust Registered Member

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    the thing at thew top the link i called it a forum for some reason the article thing posted. The people on ti are out of order just because someone doesnt understamnd something or chooses not to install it for legimate reason does not give them the right to be called morons.
     
  9. Alec

    Alec Registered Member

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    Yeah, I think this is related to the P2P "half-open" TCP connections thing I was talking about. I'm not sure how much you know about the TCP protocol but what happens is that the initiating computer sends out a SYN (synchronize, IIRC) packet to the other computer. The other computer then responds with a SYN-ACK packet to acknowledge that you want to create a TCP session. Finally, the initiator sends back an ACK and begins the conversation. This is called the 3-way handshake. The change Microsoft made was that it now limits the number of connections your computer is allowed to have in which a SYN has been sent and a SYN-ACK has not been received. (There is also a limit on the total number of fully negotiated TCP sessions are open, as I recall, but a simple registry setting can change that one.) These unACKnowlegded sessions are bad because they look like your computer is attempting a SYN flood or performing a SYN port scan. Usually bad things.

    I don't use AAtools, but my guess is that it tries to simultaneously send out SYNs for every proxy on the list and then waits to see which ACKs it gets. This won't work under SP2 because of what I just explained. There is a workaround, though. You can change this behavior, but unfortunately it is not a simple registry setting change. You can use this patch to up the number of concurrent, half-open sessions. You probably should read the FAQ there first, though.


    Not sure about that one. An "upgrade" should definitely not wipe the drive. Are you sure you weren't presented with something that said "Complete Re-Install?" or something like that? The normal SP2 update will not do a complete wipe under any circumstance I have yet encountered, but again, you can always by a disk imager like Acronis True Image if you are worried about that (It would be better than spending money on Win Server 2003, IMHO).

    NP :D
     
  10. AnthonyG

    AnthonyG Registered Member

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    So can someone point out the instructions/tutorial to fully open the connections, to exacltly the same level as it is on xp with no service packs. I know its a bit premiture but while its being discussed it might be best to ask now.

    Another thing that i thought should be brought up is all of the experts agree SP2 should be installed on a fresh install. Microsoft themselves have even said that according to what i have read at least.

    Now if this is an automatic forced upgrade of SP2 that cant be stopped. This is not a fresh install and will likely crash my system. So Microsoft in their actions by causing something to happen that they know is not good for my system are intentionally going to crash my system so to speak. Isnt that illegal or something? Its certainly bad practice in my opinon by them.
     
  11. Michael_aust

    Michael_aust Registered Member

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    when you say forced to install do you mean that there an ultimatum if you dont install you are not able to downlaod more updates? Its going to cripple my net connection for days if thats the case. I only have dial up and its not that good as it is because of the area i like in. So if i have to sit there trying to be on the net while it downloads im going to be going an a snails pace. Last tiem i tried it took me me just over half a week to download doing a few hours a night.
     
  12. Alec

    Alec Registered Member

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    Download the patch and then in a command window type in "evid4226patch /L=<number>" where <number> is how many concurrent, half-open sessions you want to allow. Pre-SP2 there was absolutely no limit, and I'm not sure if you can set up "no limit"... but you can set the number to 50, 100, 1000, or 5000... whatever you want. BTW, according to author of the patch Windows Server 2003 SP1 will make the same change as XP SP2... so buying Windows Server 2003 won't likely help you in the long run either. You wouldn't think Microsoft would let you escape that easily did you? Mwahaahaaaaa. :p

    True, a clean install is somewhat better and recommended, but it's not necessary. I didn't do a complete reinstall. If you run a pretty clean system to begin with, you don't really have much to worry about in not doing a complete reinstall. It's recommended just to avoid problems people might have with crappy 3rd apps or with loads of malware that may have gotten on there. Microsoft tech support doesn't want to have to walk people through the process of pulling malware off a system... so of course they are going to recommend a complete reinstall.

    May be... but's that's Microsoft for ya. :rolleyes:
     
  13. Firecat

    Firecat Registered Member

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    Microsoft has always been a dominating monopoly...and will continue to be so..but its suspicious, they're not forcing SP4 for Windows 2000, then why all this for XP? After all, Win2000 is equally important for them right?
     
  14. Paranoid2000

    Paranoid2000 Registered Member

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    My understanding about issue 4 is that SP2 places a limit on new connections in order to slow down the rate at which worms could propagate. There is a patch at http://lvllord.de/ which can adjust this - note that third-party patches can be risky, but this appears to be a well-used one.

    Application compatibility was also hampered by Microsoft including a beta version of DirectX in SP2 causing problems with some games.

    The best advice for those installing SP2 is to take a full image backup to another disk - if you do not have any imaging software then the trial version of Drive Snapshot does offer time-limited backup and unlimited restore capability - i.e. you can use the free trial for a once-off backup that you can restore any time later. If any serious SP2 problems arise, just restore the image.

    Those wishing to avoid SP2 just need to disable automatic updates. It is possible to disable Windows Update completely and download necessary patches from the Microsoft Security Bulletin Search Page instead, though it is possible that later patches for XP may require SP2 to be installed.
     
  15. Alec

    Alec Registered Member

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    Then Order Windows XP Service Pack 2 on CD. It's free of charge, but it will take 4-6 weeks to receive. Yeah, the other thread linked to a site saying that April 12, IIRC, is the cutoff deadline and that any future trips to Windows Update will force SP2 on you. I'm not completely sure of the details, but I know that SP2 isn't going to be optional much longer according to everything Microsoft is saying.
     
  16. MikeBCda

    MikeBCda Registered Member

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    Things may have changed since last Nov. or Dec., when the CD first became available. But from what I've heard, the majority of us who ordered it typically received it within a week to 10 days. despite M$'s " 4 to 6 weeks".
     
  17. Firecat

    Firecat Registered Member

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    It took 6 weeks for me...I wanted to make them pay so I ordered two!
     
  18. Matt_Smi

    Matt_Smi Registered Member

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    I am pretty sure if you disable automatic updates and also disable the auto updates service there is no way MS can automatically get it on your machine.
     
  19. Detox

    Detox Retired Moderator

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    I'm not putting sp2 onto my 2 XP machines - and since autoupdate is disabled I don't see how I will have any problem. The only issue will be that I suppose MS will require SP2 to be installed should I want to download any other Windows updates to those machines. Ah well; if things keep heading this way with "mandatory" this and that I'll put win2k on those machines too lol :cool:
     
  20. Firecat

    Firecat Registered Member

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    But then they'll make sure the patches don't work on any other system than one with SP2 installed...
     
  21. Notok

    Notok Registered Member

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    Here's an easier version of the same patch: http://www.korben.tk/ This just has a UI for the same patched linked above. Just run it (no install), enter the number of connections and click the button, reboot and you're done. I've set mine to 100 and use Firefox (with pipelining enabled and Proxomitron) and eMule at the same time without any problems.

    As far as not being able to use desktop proxies, there was also a problem with loopback addresses (connecting locally, like with desktop proxies) for some things, there has been a fix released for this. I believe it's also available on Windows Update when you have SP2.
    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...D2-5034-4BBB-B74D-AD8430A1F7C8&displaylang=en
     
  22. Firecat

    Firecat Registered Member

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    Yeah Win2k rocks!
     
  23. Michael_aust

    Michael_aust Registered Member

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    Is sp2 free to order on cd in the UK, or do you have to pay postage or anything?

    Michael
     
  24. AnthonyG

    AnthonyG Registered Member

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