Sandboxie Acquired by Invincea

Discussion in 'sandboxing & virtualization' started by ad18, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. bo elam

    bo elam Registered Member

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    Again, you are wrong. If you install and decide to use programs of your choice, and not use the ones Microsoft wants you to use, then Sandboxie is not futile. Having the option to choose your own browser, PDF reader, video players, picture viewer, RAR, Office programs, etc, makes it a good reason to use SBIE. Like I told you earlier, I don't use the Store or anything related to the store, play games or Edge. Then, Sandboxie is for me.. But at the same time, if you think the Store and its apps are great and thats what you are going to use for programs, then you stay away from SBIE. Sandboxie is not for you. I seen the awe in the expression of kids when they see the store and the games, so I can understand if you think the Store is glamorous. But not everyone is like you. Some of us dont like it, or like any of the new shiny features that MS introduces. You probably think "Timeline" is awesome. I dont and got rid of it immediately after booting with the Spring update the first time. Having the option to use what you want is what is all about. As of right now, we still have it. Hopefully that wont change.

    Bo
     
  2. guest

    guest Guest

    example, user download a file with his browser to his download folder and click on it, bad luck it is a malware.

    1- Appcontainer: you are infected since appcontainer only apply to stuff running in the Metro Apps; nothing else.
    2- Sandboxie: malware is isolated, my folder was under forced sandboxing.
     
  3. imdb

    imdb Registered Member

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    you guys seem to miss the point that ms is transforming windows into a subscription service which supports cloud based apps and store apps that will replace traditional desktop apps. with every new major update such as fall and spring creators update, ms is moving and integrating more and more components of classic control panel to settings app and encouraging sw developers to convert their sw's into modern uwp apps. and all this makes sbie futile. it's not that i don't like sbie, i like it and i used it in the past but i'm also aware of the fact that it won't survive. as a wilders member, like you, i'm not fond of fancy and shiny apps or eye candy stuff but majority of people are and they don't care about what sw or app they are going to use for a certain purpose, they just want things to be done fast & simple and that's it. and that's what uwp and apps provide. nothing to adjust, fiddle or fine tune. just launch the app and get things done. no manual updates for each and every individual sw, let the os take care of that and update apps. and sadly, we al know that it's the majority that ms and other sw developers will listen to, not a bunch of nerds or tech enthusiasts like us here @ wilders. over & out.
     
  4. paulderdash

    paulderdash Registered Member

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    That scenario may satisfy the lowest common denominator, those that grew up on phones and tablets, but 100% cloud dumbcluck is wishful thinking on MS' part IMO, especially for business.

    But yeah I would have switched to Linux before then, so you'd be right in that scenario - no Sandboxie :isay:.
     
  5. imdb

    imdb Registered Member

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    it sure does and the scriptwriters happen to be ms, apple and the like.
    and past experiences show us that those who resist that scenario will not be able to do business or communicate with the others. i mean, in today's world, you cannot do business without having an email account, or twitter or instagram account or without using a smartphone or whatsapp; will not be able to play video games, etc. simple as that. is that good, is that how i'd like it to be? absolutely not, but i also know that that's the way it's gonna be.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
  6. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    BINGO. And if Microsoft forces us to start using that vomit then it is only a matter of time before I switch to Apple or Linux.
    Acadia
     
  7. bo elam

    bo elam Registered Member

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    @imdb, that Sandboxie is gonna die one day, thats a given. It will happen but as long as Windows allows us to use the programs we want, there is a place for Sandboxie. Let me remind you, Microsoft tried to push the horrendous (IMO) Metro menu, and it didnt work. They backtracked, and brought back whats basically the same old Windows explorer.

    When I bought my last Windows 7, Windows 8 had already been released. I went and look at it, checked how to navigate Windows using Windows explorer and quickly realized it was not for me. No Start menu, ugly looking and nonfunctional system. So, I bought a lower spec W7 for more money than the brand new W8 system. Never regretted it. A few months ago when I replaced my dead XP, I would not have bought the W10 if W10 was pretty much the same as that W8 that I looked at a few years earlier.

    If MS doesn't allow people to at least have some freedom in the usage of their computer, they are going to lose. I know they ll lose me and if that happens, my worries are not going to be whether I am sill going to be able to use SBIE or not but what to replace Windows with. But I ll find something were I wont have to use Edge to open PDF files or stop using Firefox with NoScript. or watch videos and open pictures with clunky apps. Even if I liked their apps, I rather not use them. In my opinion, my Achilles heel regarding security is the part of Windows that I dont want nothing to do with (The Store and their apps). When I open the Store and manually update apps, at that time I feel insecure (thats the only time I open the Store, to update Apps I don't even use).

    Bo
     
  8. bo elam

    bo elam Registered Member

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    I never even touched one of those systems, I always liked Window and even MS but that would be the right time to make a move.

    Bo
     
  9. imdb

    imdb Registered Member

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    apps, including the "store app" itself, update themselves automatically in the background unless you tweaked your system to disable it, you don't have to do it manually.
     
  10. bo elam

    bo elam Registered Member

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    I prefer to update programs, etc, manually. MS gives us the option and the setting to disable automatic updates for Store Apps, and I take it. Thats my choice and I congratulate MS for not taking that choice away from us.

    Bo
     
  11. imdb

    imdb Registered Member

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    yea, i know. and i don't see the point of doing it manually long as you end up doing it. no offense, btw.
     
  12. bo elam

    bo elam Registered Member

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    I give you my reasons, you know when apps are updated, they throw errors, right? OK, I want to control when those errors are generated. Also, I dont want apps updating when you first start Windows or when you reboot, I want to do the updates at my own pace, way after Windows has started and do them once every 10 days or so.

    Bo
     
  13. imdb

    imdb Registered Member

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    not if you don't use them. and you say you don't.

     
  14. Mr.X

    Mr.X Registered Member

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    Hmm... :cautious:
     
  15. imdb

    imdb Registered Member

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    yea, buddy. it's not the os, but the apps we're talking about. if you don't run them, you don't get no errors. you know that, right?
     
  16. bo elam

    bo elam Registered Member

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    You get AppModel Runtime errors in your Events log every time you update an App. The app updates fine but you get the error logged in Events log. This are errors that dont mean nothing but they there and I rather know exactly when they are logged is because of the updates I just ran. You have a huge bunch of them in your Event log, you just dont know (Dont start worrying about them, everyone gets them).

    Bo
     
  17. bo elam

    bo elam Registered Member

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    Read my post above, the update causes the error.

    Opening the apps dont cause error. I never seen one doing so.

    Bo
     
  18. syrinx

    syrinx Registered Member

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    Bo, imdb. Let me start by saying I think that for the most part you are both right to varying degrees.

    I used Sandboxie for a while and it never truly failed in protecting me. After seeing how ReHIPS approached things combined with the 'continued' inability of SBIE being able to sandbox AppX (eg Metro/UWP Apps) despite being 'close' at one point along with finally deciding to move to (an NTLited version) of Windows 10, I spent quite a while to rethink my entire security approach.

    Like Bo, I hate the way AppX software is handled, including (but not limited to) how they need to be allowed to automatically create firewall rules in order to install/update as expected. Yet I do use Store Apps but SBIE wouldn't help secure them.

    I could have kept SBIE for just the Win32 style Apps (which are still 99% of those I actually use outside of calc, photo & netflix) and covered most of my bases but then I would have felt exposed using any AppX solutions outside. I have to admit though that the protection scheme (while convoluted) of running AppX software is pretty solid vs exploits or being used as infection vectors. (outside of files you download and launch yourself)

    Seeing as how I had already tested (and wanted to use) at least one of Excubits solutions for over a year but there were some issues alongside SBIE I opted to remove SBIE from the equation (after getting no real input or even a hint of a possible investigation/fix from them for over a year) and have instead upgraded to Win10 alongside MemProtect and FIDES with a ton of scripts to automate the creation of Limited Users, usage of psexec, SRP and drive virtualization with particular exceptions which basically amounts to an emulation of SBIE system wide instead of per app or forced folder. Is it for everyone? Heck no! Do I feel as safe (or safer) with the kernel level protections Excubits offers with my rule set that helps me harden the entire system, including services and AppX programs? For sure...!

    Getting back on track though, imdb, I see what you are saying and you may not be far off in the future. While I can't say you shouldn't plan your security in an attempt to be future proof I think you are taking it a tad far in this case, at least until the cloud OS becomes a 'reality'. It'd be silly to not use SBIE for desktop apps now just because it won't help on a future 'cloud' OS (no matter it's non-windows name) or even the current AppX revisions if you still want to use its protections on the still very relevant and widely used Win32/Desktop Apps...

    Bo, you make some good points and it's hard to fault your logic but not everyone is cray-cray like us and we shouldn't expect them to share our desired level of control for the system we use. I agree the AppX scheme is an ugly mess. I hate it but it's here and unlike the Win8 Start fiasco I don't think this one is going away though I truly hope it does some quick evolving.

    Insert note to /me, shut up and leave the interwebs alone, no one cares what you have to say.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
  19. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    syrinx, I found your post quite interesting.
    Acadia
     
  20. bo elam

    bo elam Registered Member

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    Good seeing you, Syrinx. I been wondering about you. Now I know why you haven't been around the SBIE forum. :)
    I know Universal apps are not going away, I can live with them. I dont really mind they been around as long as I am not forced on using them. I realize a large amount of people like the Store. I seen young people drooling and opening their eyes wide open when they see the Store and the games and the apps they can download. Its a big WOW for them. If I was a big guy at Microsoft, I would keep Windows balanced, pretty much as is now. People who like the new Windows, can have that and us who like how old Windows functioned, still be able to use it that way.

    I use Windows 10 pretty much identically to how I used W7 and XP. The only major difference is Windows updates is in automatic. For W10, I decided to adopt that change. I can live with that and was easy to get used to. But I wouldn't stop using my favorite browser, PDF reader, video player, RAR program, Office. etc, to adopt an universal app. And its not because we cant use SBIE to protect them but because I like the way programs I chosen to use how they work and function. My video player is a version of KMPlayer from 2008. It works great in W10.

    Before getting W10, I was crossing my fingers hoping and wishing that old video player worked in W10, I went WOW when it worked, and it works flawlessly with Sandboxie also. That is the Windows I want. Balance is the key. Syrinx, you might not believe this, but to this day, I haven't downloaded any app from the Store, not even out of curiosity. I opened all the apps that came with the laptop at least once, to see what they were and uninstalled everyone of them that MS gives us an uninstaller. I know I could uninstall them all using powershell or programs for that but I dont want to fight Windows, I dont want to mess up Windows. So, I only uninstalled the ones that came with an uninstaller. If MS keeps Windows balanced, it can keep us all happy (and we still be able to use Sandboxie :cool:).

    Bo
     
  21. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    I guess it will remain a mystery because even in a clean sandbox it won't work, and it keeps crashing. Other security tools also don't block anything. But anyway, I've installed Firefox 59 sandboxed and it still has got the same problem. After first startup, it takes about 10 to 15 seconds before it will start to load websites. So something is seriously wrong, no such problems with Opera and Vivaldi.

    Exactly, I freaking hate Metro Apps! It's true that in the future all apps will run in AppContainer, but that will take years because all of these apps will need to be recoded. And I'm also not sure if switching to Universal apps will mean that virtualization is not needed anymore. I doubt it, SBIE isn't just meant to protect against exploits, it's also a way to virtualize apps.
     
  22. bo elam

    bo elam Registered Member

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    I remember, before Sandboxie, once in a while I messed up programs. It wasn't malware, it was me making changes to the program that later I couldn't revert. At the time I was not careful when I made the changes and ended up messing up the program. Later I learned to be more aware of any changes I made but using Sandboxies kills that problem for good.

    Bo
     
  23. guest

    guest Guest

    Some metro Apps are very useful and quite well made, others aren't; for those that can't fulfill my needs, i use classic 3rd party softwares in sandboxie. I enjoy both, i just use the ones that fit me the best.
     
  24. bjm_

    bjm_ Registered Member

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    2797.png
    SBIE2205 Service not implemented: CreateDesktop
    homepage google.com blank and needs Exit + Terminate.
    Firefox 60.0 + 5.25.2

    Edit: correction
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  25. mood

    mood Updates Team

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    Workaround:
     
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