Router problems, help requested

Discussion in 'hardware' started by Fly, Aug 22, 2009.

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  1. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    (Configuration: Sitecom router connected by wire to modem, wireless WPA-PSK connection from my router to USB adapter on my computer, the USB adapter uses Sitecom firmware, no other devices in network, Windows XP Home Edition service pack 2, Avira security suite trial)

    A number of weeks ago I bought myself a new router. It worked fine till today or yesterday.

    I'm not sure how I got myself into this mess. I switched between wireless to wired (cable/wire between computer and modem, bypassing the router) and back at least once.

    I noticed some problems. I checked and noticed that the cable from my modem was plugged into the LAN slot of my router ! I put it back in the WAN slot, performed a factory reset, activated encryption and entered a new password.
    (Actually I tried that in a number of variations, but I try to be brief here)

    At first, I couldn't connect to the internet at all. Now, for the time being, I can, but it seems that browsing is sluggish.

    The thing is: when I type IPCONGFIG /ALL I get this:
    IP address 192.168.0.100
    Subnet mask 255.255.255.0
    Default gateway: 192.168.0.1
    DHCP server 192.168.0.1
    DNS server 192.168.0.1
    Primary WINS server 192.168.0.1
    (And a few other things that probably don't matter)
    Earlier today I managed to get a 82.X IP address under IPCONFIG /ALL, but that didn't last, my last several attempts came up with the IPs as mentioned above.

    Now things are weird.

    If I log into the router, I see the above mentioned numbers at 'device status' and the word LAN is used.
    At 'internet status' I get: Dynamic IP address, my real IP number (82.X), subnet mask 255.255.254.0, default gateway 82.Y ( a bit different from my real IP).

    I can't say I like it this way. I don't understand it. I tried deactvating Avira, but that didn't help.
    I'm not sure this is safe or stable.

    This is not completely unlike the problems with my old router ( https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=246945 ), but it is different.

    It's a Sitecom router. I prefer not to post the exact model, or other personal/technical details, but I may be willing to send a PM if someone thinks that will help. There is actually a lot of information about this router, it uses some open source code and if you are tech savvy you can probably install a lot of software or use the router with your own code.
    I can't do that ! (The manual on the CD didn't help)

    As I stated, I don't like it this way, don't trust it this way, it's sluggish, and I don't understand why ipconfig /all now shows only LAN data. That's completely new. I can even do a config /renew with the router, which I never could do in the past.

    I even tried restoring an older image, but that didn't solve this problem.

    Any help with returning my router to its previous state (or an explanation) would be very much appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2009
  2. HKEY1952

    HKEY1952 Registered Member

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    Try this:

    01)- Power down the computer
    02)- Unplug Modem
    03)- Unplug Router
    04)- Remove all network cables from all devices connecting computer to router to modem
    05)- Plug in and power up the router and reset to factory defaults by pressing the reset button
    06)- Unplug Router
    07)- Power up the computer and log into your administrative account
    08 )- Set the TCP/IP Properties to obtain an IP Address automatically
    09)- Set the TCP/IP Properties to obtain an DNS Server automatically
    10)- Remove any WINS Servers listed in the TCP/IP Properties WINS Tab and set the NetBIOS to Use Default
    11)- Make sure the Network Connection Properties lists: Client for Microsoft Networks, QoS Packet Scheduler, File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks, Internet Protocol (TCP/IP)
    12)- From Device Manager, disable any Power Management features from the Properties of the Network Adapter
    13)- Navigate to: Control Panel/Internet Options/Connections/LAN Settings/ -and uncheck all the boxes
    14)- Power down the computer
    15)- Plug the cables back into the devices, the Topology must be as follows:
    (a)- Ethernet cable from modem to the WAN port of the router
    (b)- Ethernet cable from Port one of the router to the Network Card of the computer

    16)- Plug in and power up the modem and let stabilize
    17)- Plug in and power up the router and let stabilize
    18 )- Power up the computer and log into your administrative account and let stabilize
    19)- From the Properties of the Local Area Network Connection choose: Repair
    20)- Open the Command Prompt and type in: ipconfig /flushdns and press enter, after the conformation echo, close the Command Prompt
    21)- Reboot the computer and log into your administrative account


    HKEY1952
     
  3. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    Ouch ! :ouch:

    Thank you, I tried that, but it didn't work.
    I didn't have the Microsoft client installed, or file and printer sharing among networks, but other than that I had little or nothing to change in my computer settings.

    Under 10): the router has LMHOSTS lookup enabled by (factory?) default. And NETBIOS by DHCP. Is that OK ?

    15 b) I'm not sure what you meant. I have a wireless connection between my router and the USB adapter (with firmware) on my computer.
    The first time I didn't put a cable between my router and the network card of my computer, because it didn't seem to make much sense. My router doesn't have a 'port one'. In the manual a WAN port is mentioned, but the other ports are not described as WAN or LAN. Anyway, I tried it (wireless) and it didn't work.
    Next, I put a cable/wire between my router and the ethernet card on my computer. I removed the USB adapter. I think the ethernet card uses NVIDIA driver(s). It didn't work at all ! I lost my connection to the internet. I made the same changes with network connection and LAN things on the ethernet card, but that didn't work. What would actually be the point of that ? I don't need to use my ethernet card with my router.

    For clarity, this computer has a built-in ethernet card, which I can use if I want to connect my computer to my modem by wire. For the wireless connection I have a USB adapter, no ethernet card.

    I actually lost my connection to the internet, and it took me a lot of time to get it up and running again. (wireless) :ouch:

    The router seems to have the correct LAN and WAN data (as it shows when I log in), and it seems to act as a firewall when I test it by disabling the software firewall.

    I just don't know why I get that strange information when I type 'IPCONFIG /ALL'. I don't understand it and I don't fully trust it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2009
  4. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    About post #1 (and possibly #2):

    Does anyone have some suggestions, ideas, explanations ?
     
  5. HKEY1952

    HKEY1952 Registered Member

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    (10) Yes, those settings are correct

    (15b) I need an hardwired connection from the router to the ethernet card of the computer.
    I also need the wireless USB adapter disconnected (removed) from the computers USB port.
    The ports on the router may not be labeled as WAN, LAN, ONE, TWO, ETC..
    This is called troubleshooting, I need an hardwired connection from the router to the computer to test the router, connection, and
    possibly re-flash the router firmware if needed.....wireless can be set up later.
    Also note that an hardwired connection is much faster than an wireless connection. Also, flashing the router firmware should be done
    through an hardwired connection rather than an wireless connection for reliability.
    NVIDIA drivers are for video, you may be plugging the ethernet cable into the video card instead of the network card.


    To further assist you I need the following:

    01)- The make and model number of the router
    02)- The make and model number of the computer

    Without this information I can not diagnose the situation or the problem, you may send an Personal Message to me with this information.

    Also, perform an manual Windows Update and check the Hardware Section of the Windows Update for possible updated drivers for the internal network card,
    and of course all critical updates.


    HKEY1952
     
  6. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    Thank you.
    Actually, my ethernet card uses an NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller. Anyway, it is called like that. When I check it I see it is made by NVIDIA.
    The mainboard as I can see it is a bit different from what it looks like in the manual. The model (number) seems to be the same. When I bought the computer there was at least one CD with NVIDIA software that wasn't for graphics. The system needed that software. Since then I've reformatted a few times, last time was last year, and I had some trouble in finding the correct drivers. I would not like to try to change the drivers, last time it was a hassle. Currently I have NVIDIA software installed for several things, for example memory controllers.
    My computer needs at least some NVIDIA software (it asks for that after a new Windows installation), not only for the graphics card. I may have installed more NVIDIA software than I need, but I don't feel like playing around with it.
    Perhaps my ethernet card can function without the NVIDIA software, but there is no problem if I try to connect the ethernet card by wire (directly) to my modem. That connection works fine.

    About a 'hardwired' connection between the router and the ethernet card: it is not possible to connect the router to my ethernet card AND to have a working connection with the internet, since there is only one slot for that type of cable/wire (and wireless is by USB adapter). I had some problems with my previous router. Attempting to troubleshoot (same brand), when I connected it by wire/cable to the ethernet card the router became a mess.
    I had no choice but to discard it. For the saga: https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=246945
    I really don't want to risk my router by connecting the LAN port to my ethernet card/computer. Sorry, that's one thing I don't want to risk.

    Especially since at the moment I have no problems connecting to the internet, it's no longer sluggish, the speed is back to normal. Its firewall seems to be working. And when I access the router it has both the correct LAN and WAN information. But IPCONFIG /ALL gives the information as mentioned above, something I don't understand.

    I hope you can work with these 'restrictions'.
    PM with information sent.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2009
  7. HKEY1952

    HKEY1952 Registered Member

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    OK good, the NVIDIA is in order.

    It is possible that the router become an mess when you plugged the ethernet cable from the router into the computer network card because of the
    Universal Plug and Play Device Host Service built into Windows (UPnP). Disable the following in Services they are not needed
    :

    01)- Universal Plug and Play Device Host (UPnP) = the client of UPnP
    02)- SSDP Discovery Service (SSDP) = the server for UPnP

    As for IPCONFIG /ALL:

    IP address 192.168.0.100 = the current IP Address of the computer assigned by the routers DHCP Server (dynamic host configuration protocol)
    Subnet mask 255.255.255.0 = an method of splitting IP networks into an series of subgroups, 192.168.0.100 falls in the group 255.255.255.0
    Default gateway: 192.168.0.1 = the IP address of the router, the router acts as an gateway between the computer/s in the network and the Internet
    DHCP server 192.168.0.1 = the IP address of the router, the router is acting as the DHCP Server for the Local Area Network, (LAN)
    DNS server 192.168.0.1 = the IP address of the router, the router is the gateway for the LAN, the router will fetch the Internet Providers DNS (domain name system or service)
    Primary WINS server 192.168.0.1 = WRONG, you do not have an WINS Server connected to your network, this must be removed from the TCP/IP Properties WINS Tab
    .....WINS = Windows Internet Naming Service, introduced with Microsoft Windows NT (new technology) to allow Microsoft File Sharing over the TCP/IP Protocol, and other stuff.

    Within the routers pages displaying the Internet Service Providers IP information (ISP), the ISP Address, Default Gateway, and DNS Server will always be different than the ISP Address.

    Example:
    ISP Address = 82.111.111.111 - or whatever
    ISP Default Gateway = 87.87.87.87 - or whatever
    ISP DNS = 82.111.222.111 - or whatever

    unlike the local router where all three are the same, the Routers IP, Default Gateway, and DNS Server are 192.168.0.1 (or whatever IP address manually assigned to that Router)

    About the sluggishness with the Internet Connection:
    Being that you are connected to the router wirelessly, it is possible that an neighboring computer is connecting to your wireless router or visa versa, the bandwidth becomes shorter,
    hence an slower connection for both parties. Within the routers setup pages you will find an MAC Address Filter (Media Access Control). Enter the MAC Address of all the computers and
    all the MAC Addresses of all the Network cards, including the wireless adapter to this list.
    Any MAC Address not in the list, such as neighboring computers or wireless adapters, will not be able to access the routers connection to the Internet and conserve your bandwidth.
    Also password protect the router to prevent neighboring computers access to the routers configuration pages. (192.168.0.1). Encrypt the wireless connection by utilizing either
    WPA (Wi-Fi Protected Access) or WEP (Wired Equivalent Privacy). Now there is not much that you can do to prevent your computer from trying to connect to an neighboring router other than
    telling Windows to block or ignore the connection within the network connections properties page when an new network is discovered.
    Also allow the router to broadcast the SSID (service set identification). The SSID is the name of your wireless network.
    All of this can be simplified by running the Microsoft Wireless Network Setup Wizard from Control Panel.

    Recieved your PM and will investigate.


    HKEY1952
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2009
  8. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    The UpNp and SSDP are disabled.
    For as far as I know, these two were already disabled when I was still using my old router. Unless Avira (suite, trial version) disabled them.
    Anything related to WINS in the properties tab is at automatic.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2009
  9. HKEY1952

    HKEY1952 Registered Member

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    Should you have any more problems Fly, just Post here.


    HKEY1952
     
  10. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    I just sent you two PMs in response to the two PMs sent by you.
     
  11. HKEY1952

    HKEY1952 Registered Member

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    Fly,

    You misunderstood the information in the Personal Message about replacing the network card in the computer. I never suggested that you replace the network card for troubleshooting purposes.
    I am Posting this here Fly so that others will be aware of the possible compatibility issues involved.

    You claim that you can connect the ethernet cable from the computer to the modem and it works - good
    However, you also claim that if you connect the ethernet cable from the computer to the router it does not work - not good

    Reason = by default, all ethernet cards should work with any connection if the manufacturer follows industry standards, in reality this does not happen.
    You mention that the ethernet card in the computer is integrated, that might be the problem. The problem may be with driver incompatibility, or integrated to only work with certain devices.
    You mention that the computer is custom built and not from any one manufacturer.....well, there you go.....who is the manufacturer of the integrated network card, and are updated drivers available?
    Also, some routers, the ports need crossover cables instead of straight through cable connections, while still other routers can automatically sense the cable connection and reverse the crossover
    connection to an straight through connection or visa versa depending on the manufacturer. By industry standard all ports should use straight through cable connections.....is your cable straight through
    or crossover? Does your router support sensing crossover cable connections, or does your router require crossover cable connections, or straight through cable connections?
    You also mentioned that you tinkered with the settings on the integrated network card, I do not know what you might have changed from the defaults.

    It can be an mess sometimes troubleshooting networks of mixed manufactures. It can also be troublesome connecting different network cards from different manufacturers. By standard practice,
    it is advisable to use network cards from the same manufacturer thought the network to avoid compatibility and connection issues. Even if the integrated network card worked with your router,
    I would still suggest installing an ethernet card from the routers manufacturer for compatibility and throughput reasons. Also, whenever flashing the firmware of the router, the procedure should be
    conducted over an hardwired connection to the router rather than an wireless connection for reliability.

    Integrated ethernet cards are not hi-end network cards, and are mainly installed to provide instant Internet connection out of the box and reduce or avoid Windows Reactivation. An computer that exists
    an ethernet card on the first Windows Product Activation is permitted more hardware changes than an computer that does not exist an ethernet card on the first Windows Product Activation before Windows
    requires Reactivation. On the first Windows Product Activation, Windows will scan ten different hardware values that are used to create an hardware hash number. Using an complex algorithm,
    the hardware hash number and the Product Identification Number on the Installation CD are combined to create an Installation ID for submission to Microsoft.....
    .....of course this is an entirely different chapter.....

    Technical Details on Microsoft Product Activation for Windows XP
    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb457054.aspx


    HKEY1952
     
  12. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    Partial quotes above.

    The manufacturer of the network card ? I MAY have that information somewhere, but I can't seem to find it. I'd have to spend more time looking for that information.
    However, the network card uses NVIDIA software, as mentioned in the PM I sent you. It is a large file, and supports a number of devices, not just the graphics or network card. This particular NVIDIA file (saved on desktop) didn't come with my computer, but when I needed to reformat last year I needed NVIDIA software, and for some reason I installed this particular software. I remember downloading different NVIDIA software before that, but at that time this was the only suitable software I could find. It was later/newer NVDIA software. Immediately after my last reformat last year I started using an imaging setup, and I don't have any earlier NVIDIA software at hand. Anyway, I'm paranoid about connecting my computer to a LAN port of my router, because of what that did to my older and now discarded router.
    'If it ain't broken, don't fix it' It seems that my router is not functioning as it should, but that's better that a non-functioning router.

    I don't know anything about crossover cables or straight through cable connections. I spent a few minutes trying to figure it out, but it's not clear.
    I don't know what my router supports, but in the PM I sent you I mentioned the router model. It SEEMS that the long cable/wire which I can use for a direct wired connection between my computer and my modem is similar to the cables that came with my router, they both fit in the slot of my ethernet card, router and modem.

    'You also mentioned that you tinkered with the settings on the integrated network card, I do not know what you might have changed from the defaults'

    Tinkered with the settings of the network card ? I'm not sure what you mean. I have installed NVIDIA software for it (as mentioned above), that particular file installs NVIDIA software for a number of devices.
    While I may have 'tinkered with the settings' trying to troubleshoot my older and now discarded router, my current image uses the NVIDIA software as it was when I first installed it.

    I'm not sure why I should purchase a new ethernet card from Sitecom, it costs money and I'd have to guess which ethernet card to purchase. My current router came with a USB adapter in the same box.

    Btw, this computer is about 5 years old.
     
  13. HKEY1952

    HKEY1952 Registered Member

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    Fly,
    Install this network card with the driver that is included and your problems are solved.
    You can then disable the wireless features of the router and have no more interference from neighboring computers.
    There is no connection more reliable and faster than an hardwired connection.
    Small price to pay for security, reliability, and speed.

    Sitecom Wired LN-020 Network PCI card 10/100 Mbps
    http://www.sitecom.com/product.php?...roductcode=LN-020&productid=185&subgroupid=35


    HKEY1952
     
  14. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    Thank you, I may do that. It's not expensive.

    But I suppose that's for troubleshooting of my router's unusual behaviour ?
    Because, other than that, I wouldn't need it. I use a wireless connection for convenience, to avoid the inconvenience and the messy look of a cable passing through several rooms in my house.
     
  15. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    Btw, is that incorrect WINS server a security problem ?

    Communication between my router and my adapter is encrypted (I know because each time I activate the computer I have to enter the passphrase in the firmware of my USB adapter (copy and paste), that must be an error in the adapter or its firmware) and I have have a non-default password.

    My guess is that noone can bypass that protection ?
     
  16. HKEY1952

    HKEY1952 Registered Member

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    No, that incorrect WINS Server is not an security problem, especially in your case, as you do not have an WINS Server.
    Any entry in the WINS Tab, in your case, could cause communication problems and must be removed.
    Your WINS Tab should look like this:

    WINS01.JPG

    Ignore the: Enable LMHOSTS lookup, the default is: enabled, and leave it alone, it is irrelevant to our discussion.


    There is no error or problem with the wireless adapter or firmware, it simply is not setup correctly.
    It is good that you have an non-default password for the router.
    Also, the four 10/100 Mbps Fast Switch Ports on the back of the router are (Auto-Crossover). you are OK here, the cables you have are Straight Through Cables.


    According to the SitecomWL312.pdf manual, WPS (Wi-Fi Protected Setup) is the simplest and most secure way to establish an connection between the wireless clients and the wireless router.
    You don’t have to select the encryption mode and fill in an long encryption passphrase every time when you try to setup an wireless connection. You only need to press an button on
    both wireless client and wireless router, and WPS will do the rest for you. Instructions for WPS setup can be found on Page 31 of the Manual:
    http://www.sitecom.com/showdownload.php?id=3779


    There are two ways to place the Sitecom Wireless Router in WPS Mode:
    01)- On the rear of the router, press the reset button for two seconds. (page 07)
    02)- Or click the WPS Push Button: "Start to Process Button" in the web configuration interface of the router. (page 31)

    To establish an connection from the Sitecom Wireless USB Network Adapter to the Sitecom WPS protected router:
    01)- Simply press the button on the Wireless USB Adapter (page 31 and Web)
    http://www.sitecom.com/showdownload.php?id=3719&hasacr=1

    02)- Or simply click the button in the utility of the wireless USB Network Adapter. (page 31)

    This is very secure, because the passphrase key that is randomly generated by the wireless router during the WPS process, rejects connections from devices that are not WPS compliant. (page 32)
    When setup properly, I can see that this router can be very secure. First, the routers WPS automatically sets up WPS with an random passphrase, any devices that are not WPS compliant can not
    access the router. Second, populating the Wireless Access Control List with all the MAC Addresses in your Network will prevent any MAC Addresses excluded, access to the router. (page 30) Third,
    password protecting the router with an non-default password will prevent any changes to the routers configuration, internally and externally.


    HKEY1952
     
  17. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    Thank you, I will probably try that.

    Btw, the WINS tab looks exactly as you state it should !
     
  18. HKEY1952

    HKEY1952 Registered Member

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    You are quite welcome Sir.....I hope this works to your satisfaction Fly.....


    HKEY1952
     
  19. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    WPS doesn't solve the strange router setup.
    WINS Server is still at 192.168.0.1
    I've tried a couple of resets and made a few attempts to get this fixed, with no success.

    It used to be different. IPCONFIG /ALL doesn't give any 82.X address.

    Also, when I check <start execute> after each reboot it states 'cmd' instead of '%temp%'. I can enter '%temp%', but after a reboot it always changes to 'cmd'.

    I don't want to spend a lot of time troubleshooting this. Maybe it's my punishment for buying a cheap router. :ouch:
    Any suggestions are welcome.
     
  20. Searching_ _ _

    Searching_ _ _ Registered Member

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    Is your modem set to bridge mode?
    When connecting modems and routers the first device, the modem, has to be in bridge mode, usually.
     
  21. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    I have no idea. Is there an easy way to tell ?

    For as far as I know, accessing the modem once set up is not possible. I can use it (no problem when I connect my computer to the modem by wire), but that's all. There is some kind of reset button, but it doesn't work.

    Troubleshooting to access the modem's menu would probably take several hours, and with the same result as previously.
     
  22. tipstir

    tipstir Registered Member

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    Lets bypass this router and connect your wired device directly to the cable modem or dsl modem. Can you connect to the internet?
     
  23. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    Yes, that works fine.
     
  24. tipstir

    tipstir Registered Member

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    Now you it's the router configuration or there is a problem with the router brand your using. Try a different brand if you can. Or have that router your using serviced if you just got it and it's still covered under warranty.
     
  25. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    I'm not sure if I have a (valid) warranty, I'll have to check that. It certainly was a budget router.

    I think a great deal of this problem is caused by my ISP. Not sure how.

    The IPCONFIG /ALL gives unusual information. Maybe the setup is incorrect from a technical perspective. When I log in to the router I can see it has the correct LAN and WAN information, for as far as I can tell. It seems to work fine, though. For the time being ...
     
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