RollbackRx-- Conflicts or Failure??

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by aigle, May 29, 2006.

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  1. aigle

    aigle Registered Member

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    Few weeks back I found that one of my RollBackRx snapshot has become corrupted. I can recover all files from there but no way to reboot in it. Even once windows run chkdsk but found no errors, however in spite of that I was not successful to boot into this snapshot. I suspected two programmes,

    Boot Skin
    Logon Studio

    Although I was not sure but I uninstalled them, took a buffer snapshot and removed all previous snapshots with these software and so then I cleaned these completely from my system. However I sdid not retry to boot in that corrupted snapshot( though it still still exists on my system-- but has no bootskin or login skin).

    Few says back I installed GeSWall. Before installing GesWal and also after installing it I took some snapshots. After I installed GesWall, I just assume somehow it made some snapshots corrupt( sorry if I am wrong). Infact within few days my two snapshot that contain GesWall became a bit unstable and corrupted( even one was unable to be used at all) while other 2 or 3 that were without GesWall remained well.
    Wile trying to boot in one of these corrupted snapshots, windows ran chkdsk and found so many errors and fixed them but it worsened the scenario and one of the snapshots with GesWall became totally unusable. I as able to reboot in it but windows will stuck just after reboot with many errors( some of them I captured). So rebooted to the snapshot I took before installing RollBackRx and no error message came , no chdisk etc. Then made a buffer snapshot and deleted all snapshots containing GeSWall. Then I updated my snapshot by installing some softwares that I lost in this way and no kore GeSWall n my system now.
    Now my susptsion is that this second problem I faced was due to GeSWall.
    Why I suspect it is due to GesWall? Well! there are ample reasons to suspect. I was having two snapshots with GesWall, when I got the GesWall console problem, I tried to boot in my previous snapshot with GesWall thinking that it will solve my problem but to my surprize the GesWall console was not working even in that old snapshot while I remembered that just one day back I used that snapshot and GesWall console was Ok in that snapshot, and there is no obvious way to damage GeSWall console in that snapshot as it was not is use and separated at MBR level from other system. I suspect there is some conflict somewhere? Just want to know ur opinion.
    In these few days I did not installed any other suspicious programme except Windows Defender, Ewido beta 4, Dree Superantispyware, Arovax Shield, AppDefend, Snoop Free, Online Armor Trial( infact chdisk ran just after I took a snapshot after installing Online Armor today) but I don't think that the problem was due to any of these softwares.
    If somebody is interested and has a good backup. I will suggest to try to reproduce it urself. U can install trial of RollbackRx and take some snapshot before and some after installing GesWall and then play with the snapshots a bit. Make some new snapshot and delete some older ones( all that contain GesWall) and do defragmentation of snapshots and I think the same problem might be reproduced. Infact I took many snapshots after GesWall, deleted many with multiple time defragmenattion of snapshots.
    Also I want to write this to RollbackRx support and need the mailing address id somebosy can tell, on their site I could only find the automated e-mailing system but no e-mail address.
    BTW, there is still one corrupted snapshot with GeSWall that I did not remove just incade I need to recover some files by RollBackRx. I have sent a mail to GeSWall support as well.

    This is corrupted GeSwall Console message before the whole snapshot became corrupted.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Aigle

    I would get your files recovered, and uninstall Rollback, and maybe try again. What you are describing is exactly what I went thru, and is the reason I've dropped Rollback RX. I am not convinced it is a robust as FDISR, for doing some of the stufff we do.

    Pete
     
  3. aigle

    aigle Registered Member

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    Now I am no more confident about Rollback as I was before but still I think the main problem is that no body knows what is the actual cause, Rollback itself, some conflicts or some thing else...
    Anyhow I will continue and see what happens. I have made some clean snapshots that are working perfectly so far. BTW, I have no imp data on my PC so I can still survive.
     
  4. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Aigle

    I suspect part of the problem is that it has to pass all windows file calls thru it's driver to pass them to it's own method of keeping track of stuff. Having somewhat of an understanding of how Rollback works, I can see how conflicts, and problems could potentially occur, compared to say FDISR where you are working with a whole new set of files.

    Pete
     
  5. aigle

    aigle Registered Member

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    U might be right. BTW, with FDISR, the recovery is not so instant and I am kind a person who doesn,t like even a simple reboot for this purpose.
     
  6. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    Pete's idea as to the root of Rollback's problems may be correct, I don't know, but I can confirm that not all of its problems are remedied in the latest version (7.2.12). Just a few days after installing it, I again experienced a dirty-disk event with chkdsk 'going nuts' finding and fixing hundreds of errors! AFAIC, it still has a serious bug or perhaps it's a case of it being conflict-vulnerable!

    Btw aigle you have mail. ;)
     
  7. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Funny thing is I don't know if those problems are actually on the disk or just appearing to windows that way based on what the driver passes back.

    I would like to see them deliberately crash a system 4 or 5 times in a row just by power resetting, and see how things hold up. I've done that many times with FDISR, and then run chkdsk, and no problems.
     
  8. Kenjin

    Kenjin Registered Member

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    I also had this file corruption problem of RollBack snaphosts a few months ago. 2 times to be precise. I used 7.2 / 7.2.1 versions at that time. Symptoms were very similar - random files got corrupted (some application dlls & program icons e.g) and were damaged across different snapshots of the same branch.

    I have no clue what is causing this, however at least in the first case I can rule out conflicts with GesWall, as that was not installed.

    Currently I run version 7.2.12 which was supposed to include a fix for those corruptions. Quite disappointing to read that it is still flawed.
     
  9. Atomas31

    Atomas31 Registered Member

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    Hi Pete,

    Did you actually ask HDS to try the little test you ask (crash a system 5 times in a row)? If so, what was there answers and conclusions?

    Best regards,
    Atomas31
     
  10. aigle

    aigle Registered Member

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    Before buying it i used its trial for 1 month and did not get any problem. If I get the issues like this before, I might have bought FDISR.
    Frankly speaking I don,t think that they will fix it as until now they even don,t accept that there is some problem as far as I have read here.
     
  11. aigle

    aigle Registered Member

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    In my opinion the problem can be reproduced if u make multiple snapshots frequently while installing and deleting doftwares in different snapshots, and doing frquent defragmentation of snapshots at the same time.

    Just my thinking as I got the problem while working in this way.
     
  12. aigle

    aigle Registered Member

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    Hi, how u can know the complete version no? Mine is showing only 7.2 ( nothing after that) and build 2690762762.
     
  13. aigle

    aigle Registered Member

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    For follow up.
    I had e mailed to Andrew( for RollBackRx) and Brian( for GesWalll) yerterday.
    GeSWall support was quick to reply and according to them it does not touch MBR, so that means the problem is itself in RollBackRx. Brian said he might try to experiment in this regard but personally I think it is now primarily responsibilty of RolllBack support asa ling as GeSWall has nothing to do with MBR.
    I am still waiting for response fron Andrew and will send another e mail to him to tell about the reply of GeSWall support. Let,s see .....

    I don,t know that what was the final result of the e mails between Andrew and some RollBackRx users here in the past( Hi! Peter)
     
  14. starfish_001

    starfish_001 Registered Member

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    the new version is 7.2.1 build 2690992143
     
  15. aigle

    aigle Registered Member

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    I mean that on my RollbackRx when I press about, it tells only a brief no-- 7.2 so taht means it is older one. Is there any benefit of the newer version?
    BTW, Kenjin said it is 7.2.12!
     
  16. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Is RollbackRx worth my time to try and test it, considering all the problems with it, starting with its activation and ending with screwing up my system ?
     
  17. aigle

    aigle Registered Member

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    As I told it did not show any weakness in one month trial. U learn in many ways.
     
  18. RobZee

    RobZee Registered Member

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    I asked HDS about the latest release and was provided with the following info-

    Information and notes for RollBack Rx V7.2.12 - May 18th 2006


    Install requirements: Supports Windows 98, Me, 2000, XP

    Users will be able to install on top of the current versions. However,
    upgrade will consolidate all existing snapshots into one final new baseline,
    please be aware of this.


    Note:

    If you receive "rename failed, shieldm" error message, just ignore it to
    continue with the upgrade... Make sure you close all other applications
    before you run the upgrade. We are suspecting it's some antivirus of other
    process hanging on to the shieldm process.

    Other important notes on the new build.

    1. Fixed the Win98 and Tweak UI issue reported by some clients.
    2. Fixed the registration ID changes on STAT drives issue. (So we won't need
    to reset the registration records when users reinstall Rollback)
    3. Fixed a update baseline/uninstall to current snapshot issue. If the drive
    does not have enough contagious space to Rollback to create the new baseline
    table index, the operation might fail.
    4. Fixed a possible NT blue screen issue reported by some users that when
    using backup software - The system sometimes has a blue screen. Updated the
    Kernel driver for fault tolerance.
    5. Optimized shdserv for better resource consumption.
    6. Added a setup detects new version feature.
    7. Enabled "Ghost" from subsystems. To Ghost a snapshot from the subsystem
    users can:
    a). Press HOME key to enter subsystem.
    b). select Advanced options/Program settings and type "ghost=1".
    c). select Advanced options/Boot from floppy to go to DOS.
    d). run Ghost from the DOS to create a backup image for the current
    snapshot.
    8. And some other minor issues, bugs reported by customers.
     
  19. Kenjin

    Kenjin Registered Member

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    In the program the latest version shows as 7.2.1 build 2690992143, but on the website it is listed as 7.2.12. Apparently they forgot to update the version numbers in the program.
     
  20. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Yep, that sounds familiar to what happened to me.
     
  21. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Andrew last emailed me to tell me there was a new version, which did show up several days later.(I believe it is the version up there now). I've had no follow up from him since then, and since I don't plan on testing I haven't contacted him.

    Pete
     
  22. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    No I haven't. I will if they contact me, but due to the backup mess, I wouldn't live Rollback on my system very long, so I just can't justify the time to try it myself, at this point.
     
  23. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Erik

    Tough question. I can't say I think it would screw up your system. It never did that to me. Just I came to the point I couldn't trust it to really do it's job(screwed up snapshots), the chksks running killing the time and advantage, and the only way to be confident in an image backup situation was to uninstall it. Add that all up and well to quote you. "pfft"

    Pete
     
  24. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    I wouldn't be surprised that it has something to do with the method of creating snapshots.
    FDISR seems to make a COMPLETE set of files (safer method) in its snapshot, that's why their sizes are about the same when you just copy/update the same snapshot to a new snapshot, without any changes.
    I always read at Wilders that RB requires much less space than FDISR, which means that RB doesn't make a complete set of files during the creation of its snapshots and that method requires a much more complicated programming.
    The more complication, the higher the risk of making mistakes in the analysis and coding.
     
  25. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    The big difference is that RB only writes sectors that change. It passes windows file info to a driver which then goes to their index system which keeps track of sectors that contain the file. A hiccup with the driver can affect the index.

    FDISR does indeed require the same space for every snapshot. The only time is was an issue was imaging, but after your testing, and then Dallen's I've gotten smart. Image once with out snapshots, and then just refresh archives. Voila. Best of both worlds.
     
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