Rollback91 and Hot Imaging

No problem wideglide - I think you will enjoy the RB experience.

Just remember that you must run your image-backup program (Acronis, Macrium, or whatever) from inside Windows!

Aaron

 

Aaron,

One final question.

You keep saying to be sure to run your image back up program from "inside Windows".

I'm not a 100% sure exactly what you mean. Could you explain that for me?

Does that mean that image backup programs like Macrium or Acronis or any of the others, have a way to backup from inside Windows and also from outside of Windows?

I remember years ago when I first bought Acronis, I played around with its secure zone and totally hosed my hard drive, and I wasn't even using rollback software at the time.

I am really concerned about the issues with the MBR. I don't want to get two apps fooling with the MBR as I believe that causes issues.

Thanks again.

 

Image-backup programs provide a recovery boot-disk (which will boot your system into a DOS, WinPE, or Linux OS). Most of those boot-disks also allow you to backup (from outside of Windows) and that's what I'm telling you not to do!

If you were to create a normal image of your RB-protected partition by running the backup from such a boot-disk (i.e., outside of Windows) you would wind-up capturing RB's baseline snapshot, not your current snapshot (which is the one you typically want to backup)! That's why I stressed the point of being sure to run the backup from inside of Windows (just as you run your other programs).

Aaron

 

Thanks Aaron.

I think it's starting to sink in.

Thanks for all your help.

 

He is the best on Rollback Rx on this forum. I have learned a lot from him.

Best regards,

KOR!

 

@ wideglide, you're welcome and I hope you enjoy RB - if you have any other RB-related questions I'll try to answer them.

@ KOR, while I appreciate those kind words there are others here who are definitely more technically knowledgeable than me, such as Pandlouk and The Rollback Frog (just to name two). My RB-savvy is based on the experience acquired in over 5 years of use!

Aaron

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PS (@ wideglide)... Re your concern with potential MBR issues, I would say to 'play safe' its probably best to not install any other kind of startup manager as it could conflict with RB's MBR instructions.

 

Well damn, now I'm really confused. You had told me before that I needed to create a DS image using PE when Rollback RX was installed. Now you're saying something contradictory. I'm very confused.

 

Hi Nate,

Please understand that wideglide didn't want to 'jump through hoops' implying that he was looking for an easy method to create an image-backup of an RB-partition, so I suggested what I believe to be the most straight-forward way to do it. The procedure I recommended to wideglide is simple and it works, but it will only backup RB's current snapshot (which is usually good enough for most folks) and it will be necessary to reinstall RB when the image is restored.

Now I'll try to clear-up any confusion. In order to backup all RB snapshots and preserve the RB environment (using Drive Snapshot, the image-backup program you and I both use) you need to bootup with WinPE and perform a 'maintenance mode' (all sectors) backup. Since this procedure involves more steps than the procedure I suggested to wideglide, takes longer to perform and consumes more storage I was sure that wideglide would have considered this method as having to 'jump through hoops' and therefore I didn't present it to him.

Does that clear it up for you (or muddy it up even more)?

Aaron

 

Hi Aaron,

Let me see, if I can summarize all that is siad, as I have been confused for a long, long time too!

Within Windows:

1. Any imaging program will capture the current snapshot of Rollback Rx and after restoring the image, Rollback Rx has to be re-installed. Basically, any imaging program will capture the current status of the computer when imaging was done. This will result in a regular image.

2. If one needs to capture all snapshots and Rollback Rx is to remain intact, then one needs to use IFW for imaging, with PHYLock and registry tweek. Imaging has to be done on all sectors basis, thus resulting in a very large image of IFW and consuming a lot of time.

Outside Windows:

1. Any imaging program can be used to capture all snapshots and Rollback Rx is to remain intact, provided this imaging is done on all sectors basis. Again, this image done by any imaging program will be result in a very large image and will consume a lot of time.

2. Any imaging program can be used to do imaging, on a non sector basis. This is a very dangerous situation, as it will capture only the baseline snapshot of Rollback Rx, which can be two months old. This will not only result in a small image, but back to two months old image. After restore the image, Rollback Rx has to be re-installed.

 

KOR, great summary! I would add one thing...

In step #1, under Within Windows, I would state that following an image restoration, Rollback would have to be unInstalled (a little slower than normal unInstallation) then reInstalled for successful continued operation. This should insure no further complications with the active Rollback-enabled system.

 

Dear TheRollbackFrog,

First of all, my respect to you and your kind hard work on imaging with Rollback Rx in Windows with all the snapshot and Rollback Rx intact. Thanks for taking the time and sharing this valuable information with us.

And, thank you for adding the caveat for un-installing the Rollback Rx first, before re-installing it after restoring the image. And, it does make a lot of sense.

Many thanks and best regards,

KOR!

 

So far, so good. I've used it many times since the dust settled and all has worked well.

The only difference I can see in the HOT and COLD success mechanisms is in the use of your personal time... if you've got the time to COLD image, there's really no reason to "tweak" the system for HOT imaging purposes. If I felt COLD imaging was something I could easily work with, I would probably still use IFW/IFD 'cause when I was testing, it was a bit faster than DS. But I'd probably have to do that evaluation all over again... it's been too long

 

In clarification, isn't the cold-method's backup requirement to restart the system in a WinPE, DOS, or Linux environment the only significant difference in overall time between the hot and cold RB-backup methods (assuming IFW/IFD/IFL is used for both methods)?

 

For a given utility, yes... with the following caveat. When COLD imaging, the imaging app is usually the only task using the lion's share of system resources, but under HOT imaging the system is being shared by the imaging app and anything else that might be running. The sharing occurs with all the resources... CPU and disk I/O being the main ones to affect the imager. If the HOT imager is the only task using appreciable resources, the imaging time will be very similar to the COLD process, assuming the COLD operating system is the same as the HOT one.

 

Gotcha - and that's consistent with my thoughts on the matter ever since you introduced your "RB Luvs IFW" method in this Wilders forum.

Not to diminish your innovative contribution, I might add that I also believe (without any proof) that cold-imaging is inherently more reliable than hot-imaging because it is conducted outside of, and detached from, Windows 'sphere of influence'.

Aaron

 

That whole exercise in learning and its results are meant primarily for folks who can't really take the system time to do COLD imaging... like me. With a 24/7 production system in my hands, two things became obvious in my "needs" category... ISR and a solid backup tool that had to run HOT. RBRX turned out to be my ISR tool of choice (for the time being), and, as we all know, it added some real complexity to a 24/7er's need for good imaging and backup. Thus began the investigation and the eventual "RB Luvs IFW" solution. I would love something easier but with ISR tools like RBRX that's difficult to come up with.

There's a bit of humor in that statement It appears you're trying to say that BartPE (Windows), WinPE (Windows), Linux and/or DOS are much more trusted "spheres of influence"... (see what I mean )

Believe me, I would do COLD on my production system if I really could. All other systems that I am either responsible for or assist in their management are COLD imaged... yes, much safer.